To not understand the vaccine drama

[Lei8133]

I am so confused by all this anti-vaxxer hate and mandating the COVID vaccine for certain professions extra. IMO if you have had the vaccine (which I have, well I’m awaiting my 2nd dose) surely people who haven’t had the jab pose no increased threat to us. The only people they cause harm to are fellow anti-vaxxers and other unvaccinated people for whom the risk is always present.

Surely whether we like it or not it is a personal choice whether you receive the vaccine or not and the freedom of choice is something we should all advocate for whether we agree with the decision or not surely?!? I just don’t get it and the divide it is causes amongst friends, family and the greater society is saddening. AIBU?!?! If so can someone explain to me how unvaccinated relatives and friends are potentially harmful to me despite having received the jab?

@LakieLady - I know measles can be very serious and, as an adult, I have met people who had suffered serious side effects (e.g. I know someone who is deaf in one ear). It just so happens as a child, no one in my circle suffered serious effects. However, unless there is an epidemic of measles, it is not comparable. There tended to be localised, serious outbreaks fairly regularly but the impact on society as a whole was not as severe as hospitals were not overwhelmed the way they were with covid.

I am not getting the vaccine. How am I spreading it to all and sundry when I don't even leave my fucking house?

We aren't talking about individuals. This is a global issue, and those that do not carry antibodies carry increased viral loads and spread the virus to a larger extent. That in turn perpetuates increased numbers of variations and therefore increased risk of a particularly problematic variant.

Nobody has said YOU in particular are spreading it to all and sundry, However, you need only spread it to one other person and you're already helping to perpetuate it. Unless you're in complete isolation from humanity, then you're posing a risk.

@VerticalHorizon

People who haven't had the jab pose a threat to the rest because they help to perpetuate the virus, which in turn increases the number of variants, which in turn increases the likelihood of a difficult variant (which may be more lethal, or more resistant to our antibodies).

Doesn't seem to have happened to flu yet though, despite it being around for decades, nor to any other virus particularly.

People like to try and frighten us with the threat of some 'Super COVID' but without any real science to back it up (which is ironic when they're generally the same ones yelling at those not getting the vaccine for ignoring the science).

@VerticalHorizon

I am not getting the vaccine. How am I spreading it to all and sundry when I don't even leave my fucking house?

We aren't talking about individuals. This is a global issue, and those that do not carry antibodies carry increased viral loads and spread the virus to a larger extent. That in turn perpetuates increased numbers of variations and therefore increased risk of a particularly problematic variant.

Nobody has said YOU in particular are spreading it to all and sundry, However, you need only spread it to one other person and you're already helping to perpetuate it. Unless you're in complete isolation from humanity, then you're posing a risk.

The only people I see have been vaccinated (whish is my mum once a week, and nurses daily). If I get Covid, it will have been from someone who has been jabbed.

@Notthemessiah

The seatbelt analogy sounds OK, but it's a bit rubbish really. No-one runs any kind of risk by putting a seat belt on and no one is actively afraid of doing it.

It's ironic that the many people accusing those who decline the vaccine of selfishness cannot see that it's kind of selfish to insist people take a risk with their health, no matter how big or small, in order to protect them (because that's what they mean when they talk about 'society').

This isn't true actually and it's what makes it a good analogy. In a very rare set of circumstances a seat belt increases the risk of injury death in an accident. When seat belts first became compulsory there was a backlash from those who didn't like being made to wear one and the "risk" from wearing a seat belt was their main argument.

Seatbelts are the law though. The vaccine is not.

It has happened with flu. There have been particularly virulent strains that have killed many. However Flu's r-rate isn't generally as high as SARS. Without vaccination (or continued restrictions), Covid would be running wild.

@Notthemessiah - Doesn't seem to have happened to flu yet though, despite it being around for decades, nor to any other virus particularly.

Have you not heard of the Spanish Flu?

What confuses me is the same question coming up over and over and over, regardless of how many people have answered it (not to mention the scientists and then repeated by the media).

We are very lucky as a society that we no longer fear diseases that once struck terror into parents. Polio, measles, diphtheria.
I had measles before there was a vaccine, it left me deaf in one ear. A school friend was left in a wheelchair after polio.
Many people got measles and were unwell but recovered but a lot didn't and vaccines mean we have as a society forgotten all that.

@Lei8133

1. Unvaccinated people are more likely to lead to variants which impact effectiveness of vaccines thus affecting vaccinated people

1. Some people can’t take the vaccine and rely on herd immunity

1. Most of the anti vaxxers are selfish and self interested. They want life to go back to normal , vaccinations is the way to do this yet they won’t take them themselves and rely on others to take them so normality can resume.

[quote OchonAgusOchonOh]**@Notthemessiah* - Doesn't seem to have happened to flu yet though, despite it being around for decades, nor to any other virus particularly.*

Have you not heard of the Spanish Flu?[/quote]
I have thanks. No worse than COVID and would arguably have had a lower fatality rate with today standards of medicine, as I understand it.

Sure it was bad at the time and also bad when compared to most other flu, but it was hardly the super virus that some people seem to want to delight in scaring everyone with with their talk of super COVID variants.

@Notthemessiah - one third of the world's population were infected with spanish flu. 10% of those died. So 1/30 of the world's population died. Seems pretty extreme to me.

Most of the anti vaxxers are selfish and self interested.

Yawn 🥱 💤

@BonnieDundee

Most of the anti vaxxers are selfish and self interested.

Yawn 🥱 💤

Can you counteract it? Most anti vaxxers I’ve encountered are happy for others to take it and delighted we are out of lockdown and able to do stuff, jobs and economy starting to recover. But they wouldn’t take the vaccine themselves. Too risky for them but happy to capitalise off everyone else taking it.

[quote OchonAgusOchonOh]@Notthemessiah - one third of the world's population were infected with spanish flu. 10% of those died. So 1/30 of the world's population died. Seems pretty extreme to me.[/quote]
Depends on which estimates you look at but the fatality rate according to this article was about 2% and that was with 1918's health are and right at the end of a world war, so it is really quite possible to compare it.

www.biospace.com/article/compare-1918-spanish-influenza-pandemic-versus-covid-19/

Also, flu has had 100 years since then to improve on it and has not really come close, which kind of makes my point.

@Notthemessiah - Also, flu has had 100 years since then to improve on it and has not really come close, which kind of makes my point.

It doesn't really make your point. Flu is constantly mutating. Some mutations are more virulent, some less. Some have more fatalities, some less. 100 years is a blink of an eye in history.

It's ironic that the many people accusing those who decline the vaccine of selfishness cannot see that it's kind of selfish to insist people take a risk with their health, no matter how big or small, in order to protect them (because that's what they mean when they talk about 'society').

There is some real gravity in that statement @Notthemessiah - I think this is what I’m trying to get to the root of... why are we falling out with people etc over their choice not to do something to their body... in what other circumstance would this behaviour be acceptable?!? If we are doing our part their actions should be their business...

@BonnieDundee I’m not saying I agree with you, but I defo think that there is a lot of misplaced anger against the unvaccinated that should be directed at the government as they are the ones who made the decisions that have impacted us thusly. Was it necessary to force a closure? Can we not be trusted to use our own powers of discernment and risk assessment? Right or wrong... Decisions on how to handle each step of the pandemic could have been put to a vote... for example???

@CarolinaWeeper why must someone who doesn’t want the vaccine be incapable of critical thinking? They may just have a phobia of needles... it’s this degradation of ‘anti-vaxxers’/unvaccinated people that gets my back up. Why are we so vile to one another?!?!

Right... I started this post to get some outsiders opinions on whether my stance was unreasonable as a friend called me ‘an enabler’ and said I was just as bad as a mutual friend of ours who doesn’t want the jab for saying that her choice was valid and didn’t bother me as I was protected what should I care... anywho I can see that this post is causing unnecessary tension amongst users and therefore I just wanted to thank everyone for their comments, input etc. Clearly the general consensus is that I am an unreasonable prick lol.

I think this subject has been given enough airplay.

Can someone help me out and tell me how to close a thread. Lool many thanks

Becauae the government have decided to set people against each other in a way that I can't remember them ever having done pre-Covid.

Gosh that's interesting. Is it just your government, or is it governments all around the world? Honestly, what a load of rubbish!

Most of the anti vaxxers are selfish and self interested. They want life to go back to normal , vaccinations is the way to do this yet they won’t take them themselves and rely on others to take them so normality can resume

This ^

Plus if they contract Covid they are the ones most likely to need hospital treatment. Once a person with Covid is admitted the ward is closed to others. There are thousands of people needing urgent treatment that has been on hold for nearly two years. Myself included.

Antivaxxers are selfish and ignorant

If vaccinations are the way forward, why are we still living with restrictions after nearly 80% of the British public have been vaccinated?

Can you counteract it? Most anti vaxxers I’ve encountered are happy for others to take it and delighted we are out of lockdown and able to do stuff, jobs and economy starting to recover. But they wouldn’t take the vaccine themselves. Too risky for them but happy to capitalise off everyone else taking it

Well you could stop labelling everyone who is not being vaccinated as an anti vaxxer. You have no idea why I'm not having it and I do not owe you an explanation and will not be discussing my decision with you.

Suddenly everyone seems to think they have a say on my medical choices. Absolutely batshit

Sick of the blame game

And as for wendy woofer you have no idea what you're talking about but I imagine.it makes you feel better.to label people as.anti vax and slag them off

Becauae the government have decided to set people against each other in a way that I can't remember them ever having done pre-Covid.

Gosh that's interesting. Is it just your government, or is it governments all around the world? Honestly, what a load of rubbish!

If you really think this is not a thing, bless you. Haven't you ever heard of divide and.conquer? This government are excellent at it i suppose they have to be good at something

No idea about other governments. I don't pay much attention to politics in the rest of the world

Because vaccination, along with abortion, have a massive amount of disinformation spread.
Because certain UK groups were targeted with anti vax propoganda.
Because that message is pushed hard in many countries and has resulted in lots of deaths.
Because vaccines made smallpox (nearly) eradicated globally.
Because the polio vaccine has stopped the awful impact. Wards full of people in iron lungs. For life. Horrific.
Because the rubella vaccine has meant that children born in the UK with serious issues doesn't happen any more.

Etc etc

I don't get it. What's the problem.

They are amazing. They prevent. Some truly awful things.

Tetanus is horrible.

Is it. All vaccines? Or just the ones that a person deems necessary or not?

The message given by certain groups to people overseas that vaccines are s scam to make them infertile? Resulting in hardly any take up. And lots of avoidable disease and death? That's ok?

I bet if smallpox came back in the UK. There would be queues to get jabbed.

As there were with the measles outbreaks a few years ago.

Bog standard medicine to cure, treat, support with long term damage. Or bury. Is more difficult expensive etc.

I cannot understand why anyone wouldn't take advantage of what is likely the discovery that has stopped awful diseases in their tracks.