AIBU To feel this scarred me - *Content warning: concerns child abuse*

[baroqueandblue]

A thread about tapping a child because the child hit another child has brought something up for me which I’ve always wondered about. I’m male, early 50s, so this was in the early/mid 70s.

Friends of my parents came to visit with their children one weekend. I was 5, my brother was 4, and we didn’t get on. When he was born I was neglected (from what I’ve been told) and my father (an addict) was violent towards me but not my brother, which further destabilised me. This day we were playing with the visiting couple’s children, all primary age but older than us. I threw a book across the bedroom and it hit my brother on the nose, causing a bleed. I don’t remember if I meant to hit him with it, but it’s possible. What I remember next is a discussion between my parents and their friends about who should beat me as a punishment. I sat on the sofa waiting for the verdict, and it was decided that the visiting father should have the honour. He took me into the bedroom and thrashed me. I have an image of him removing his belt but that could be a false memory. What I do recall is feeling fear, shame and humiliation.

This episode is the tip of the iceberg in terms of abuse and bullying I suffered growing up, but it gives a flavour of what I went through. I’ve had significant problems as an adult making relationships and holding down jobs, although I’m fairly bright academically and have some long-standing close friends. But whereas both my siblings have successful marriages and steady jobs and their own homes, I’ve struggled to survive in the world of work, always rented and had short-lived relationships that ended unhappily in one way or another. I’m gay and, growing up when I did, suffered from ignorance and rejection within my family and among school friends which I think went quite deep.

But I suppose what I’m interested to discover is if the example of the beating I was given surprises many people, or if it was fairly common back then.

YABU – this was acceptable then and fairly common, get over it

YANBU – this wasn’t widespread and was abusive, no wonder you’ve struggled

a thrashing with a belt was fairly standard back in the day and my now 84 year old mother has often recounted how after a wrong doing however minor my grandfather would be summoned with his belt to warm her backside with it . how often it happened in other families i have no idea , but my dad who would be older than her had he not passed at 74 often mentioned thrashings , in fact he was fond of going on about the errant youth of today needing a good one lol. im happy to say i never did get a belting though , i only remember a smacked bottom a couple of times when id really backtalked my mum , to be fair it never did me any harm , i respect her and i knew not to take the piss she wouldnt stand for it . we are very close as i was to my dad . it affects everybody differently and if the parent is cold and unloving as well as dishing out heavy thrashings regularly then of course it will cause emotional damage

I'm mid-50s and grew up in a violent household, subjected to slaps and punches from my mother and beatings from my father with slippers, stair rods and sticks, belts too including the buckle end sometimes. For a while he used short horse whip on us. Sunday afternoons after his visit to the pub were the worst, my brother and I were often chased around the garden with my father wielding a weapon and swearing. We had an old water tank in the garden and a favourite tactic was to dangle us by our ankles with our heads in the water until we spluttered, which looking back sounds a bit like waterboarding. I regularly went to school with bruises and black eyes. Verbal abuse was constant and I was cursed do much that I was led to believe my short sight was due to my ugliness and not being good enough. But we lived in a village in an affluent area and the few working class kids weren't regarded as worthy of anything, so no one intervened.

It has had such a dramatic effect on me as an adult. I vowed to get away as soon as I could and never return, and I never have, with no contact with either parent. I am very slow to trust, dislike anything which makes me the centre of attention even though I am naturally very extravert, hate being in photos. I also walk away without a backward glance if people are unpleasant to me, as I exercise that right in a way which I could not as a child. I think it had held me back career wise, I could have earnt a 6 figure salary years ago in my field, despite being very competent, but I dislike the spotlight so much that I've held back.
I rarely talk about it because most people don't believe how bad it was and think I am prone to exaggeration.

It still hurts and I read some research a while ago that suggests some who have been abused are prone to greater chronic illness, and I certainly think I'm one of them.

So OP you are not alone, sadly there are others of us 💐

@chaosrabbitland

a thrashing with a belt was fairly standard back in the day and my now 84 year old mother has often recounted how after a wrong doing however minor my grandfather would be summoned with his belt to warm her backside with it . how often it happened in other families i have no idea , but my dad who would be older than her had he not passed at 74 often mentioned thrashings , in fact he was fond of going on about the errant youth of today needing a good one lol. im happy to say i never did get a belting though , i only remember a smacked bottom a couple of times when id really backtalked my mum , to be fair it never did me any harm , i respect her and i knew not to take the piss she wouldnt stand for it . we are very close as i was to my dad . it affects everybody differently and if the parent is cold and unloving as well as dishing out heavy thrashings regularly then of course it will cause emotional damage

This is such an insensitive post. You use ‘lol’ whilst referring to children needing thrashing. Fucking hell. That’s bad generally but on a thread about the physical and emotional abuse of the OP is just unbelievable.

It clearly has done you harm because you are desensitised to violence towards children.

I’m sorry you went through this. Just because it was more common then doesn’t make it ok.

I hope you find a way through this.

@baroqueandblue..thank you so much, it’s been really helpful to connect with you and share experiences. I wish you all the best on your healing journey. (Your previous therapist that you mentioned upthread may be available for online sessions due to the pandemic) xx

I'm a similar age and this was not normal. You would have been classed as a "battered child".A single smack on the arm or leg was not uncommon but the level of humiliation and intimidation you were subject to as well as the physical abuse is chilling. If any of these perpetrators are alive now you could make a complaint to the Police.

Thank you @chaosrabbitland my dad was jekyll and Hyde (and largely absent) and my mum couldn't do depth of emotion in others. I don't remember her being affectionate, although she did her best to provide, unlike him.

It still hurts and I read some research a while ago that suggests some who have been abused are prone to greater chronic illness, and I certainly think I'm one of them.

Oh Iamnotavicar I was diagnosed with early onset osteoporosis mid-forties after breaking my back, and have suffered frequent migraines since I was a teenager, with chronic orafacial pain, fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis as an adult. I was also diagnosed with emotionally unstable personality disorder by the NHS in my early forties, although given what I went through I question that, and of course have had long episodes of clinical depression as well as anxiety. One of my anxiety triggers is hearing children shout or scream, which of course very often is just play or if not is mild distress, but to me always sounds blood curdling. I'm very glad you mentioned what you've read, it makes so much sense and I'm sorry that the childhood abuse you suffered has blighted your adult life with illness. It's an incredibly difficult predicament, I understand so well

@TheWatersofMarch thank you for your compassionate description. Interestingly both my mother and the other children's mother are still alive. I couldn't put my mother through that kind of scrutiny, it'd kill her, and despite her behaviour back then she has tried to be more supportive as time has gone by and I couldn't ignore that. But I understand your suggestion and can't say it didnt cross my mind years ago.

Unfortunately punishments like the belt were common in those days, the belt wasn't outlawed in schools in Scotland until around 1983.

That doiesn't men that those punishments were right or that you can't be deeply affected by your childhood. It looks like there was more abuse than just being punished that once.

It is possible you have attachment issues, it might be worth looking into having some therapy to try and get to the root of things.

@Iamnotavicar

I'm mid-50s and grew up in a violent household, subjected to slaps and punches from my mother and beatings from my father with slippers, stair rods and sticks, belts too including the buckle end sometimes. For a while he used short horse whip on us. Sunday afternoons after his visit to the pub were the worst, my brother and I were often chased around the garden with my father wielding a weapon and swearing. We had an old water tank in the garden and a favourite tactic was to dangle us by our ankles with our heads in the water until we spluttered, which looking back sounds a bit like waterboarding. I regularly went to school with bruises and black eyes. Verbal abuse was constant and I was cursed do much that I was led to believe my short sight was due to my ugliness and not being good enough. But we lived in a village in an affluent area and the few working class kids weren't regarded as worthy of anything, so no one intervened.

It has had such a dramatic effect on me as an adult. I vowed to get away as soon as I could and never return, and I never have, with no contact with either parent. I am very slow to trust, dislike anything which makes me the centre of attention even though I am naturally very extravert, hate being in photos. I also walk away without a backward glance if people are unpleasant to me, as I exercise that right in a way which I could not as a child. I think it had held me back career wise, I could have earnt a 6 figure salary years ago in my field, despite being very competent, but I dislike the spotlight so much that I've held back.
I rarely talk about it because most people don't believe how bad it was and think I am prone to exaggeration.

It still hurts and I read some research a while ago that suggests some who have been abused are prone to greater chronic illness, and I certainly think I'm one of them.

So OP you are not alone, sadly there are others of us 💐

That sounds awful. It's sad that nobody noticed and intervened.

The awful thing is that although not physically present in that situation any more, the abuse is still physically with me through illness, both physical and mental (depression, chronic gut issues,very bad back, and my GP says I get age related illness earlier than I should). I've not been the best parent either, found it difficult to cope but also to offer empathy, I freeze and shut down, hiding my emotions and feelings because I don't know how to react.

I've lost touch with other family members who clearly did know at the time but have excused my parents' behaviour as being of its time, they didn't have much money etc. And also I don't drink alcohol and have become increasingly intolerant of those that do drink excessively, but only recently realised why (other than being a grumpy old bag!). Home-wise I've also found it very difficult to settle and regard any house as a home and I wonder if that's because of previous association.

This helps to explain the link between abuse and adult illness www.healthline.com/health/chronic-illness/childhood-trauma-connected-chronic-illness

OP - you've taken a brave step by opening up about it here, we were innocent children who deserved so much better than being abused by sadistic adults x

I've not been the best parent either, found it difficult to cope but also to offer empathy, I freeze and shut down, hiding my emotions and feelings because I don't know how to react.

At work, I’ve just recently done some Thrive training @Iamnotavicar. It’s all about how our childhood experiences shape us as people. Each stage is something different that builds up like a jenga tower. If blocks are missing due to childhood trauma (could be anything from abuse and neglect to a pet dying), the tower isn’t stable and will easily topple. The reaction to the tower toppling is flight, fight or freeze. You display the freeze and that’s because your brain has gone back to basic instincts and survival techniques after you’ve been ‘triggered’. Your reaction is completely understandable considering your childhood traumas.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg sadly it wasn’t because many schools were still thrashing kids. My husband’s private school still used the cane in the early 80s. On a bare bum. Just awful.

Twat (love the user name ), that helpful, I will look it up. In many ways I am a few blocks short of a full tower

@Iamnotavicar

Twat (love the user name ), that helpful, I will look it up. In many ways I am a few blocks short of a full tower

Thanks.

It was both fascinating and really upsetting training. We were looking at it to see how we as teachers could fill in the missing blocks because we have lots of children come to us needing our support with even their basic needs.

www.thriveapproach.com/

Fuck me- that was so far beyond normal.

Yes, smacking was more widely accepted, but having a discussion about who was going to beat a five year old, then inviting a visitor to do it?

Even if you had aimed the book at your brother- you were a very young child- it was their job to show you that HURTING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE! What they literally showed you is that hurting can be a planned activity.

Sick bastards. You should tell them that you remember this.

I also think counselling might help you; the feelings of shame that are foisted onto us as kids often stay with us during adulthood. The only people who should feel shame in your scenario are the adults who let you down.

I was talking to my mother recently about a boy in my class at primary school (90s). He genuinely stank, had some mild behavioural issues, and had an interesting family. Looking at him through adult eyes I can see that he was at best being neglected, but possibly actually abused. Judging by the smell he possibly had fecal incontinence, and he also wet himself often. His skin must have been so red and raw as this was a normal state for him.

I asked my mum why nobody ever did anything about him. She said the family were well known to social services but nothing practical ever seemed to happen. They were a fairly notorious family, and if I were to mention the town someone would probably identify the surname. He was somewhere in the middle of a great many children.

There was another child in our class too with slightly different issues but the worst flatulence I had ever come across. He was surly and aggressive. I remember one day seeing his dad beat him outside the GP surgery. I recall commenting to my mother that I didn’t like this boy’s dad; she said I don’t think his dad is very nice to him at all. And again as an adult I think gosh if that’s what happens in broad daylight in a public place, what must home be like?!

Doesn’t really help you, but maybe your classmates look back as adults and care about what you went through. I know I am appalled.

I am so sorry about the abuse you endured.
One thing that stood out to me is that you say your brother didn't experience the same violence that you did. This of course further impacts you.
Have you done any reading/therapy around the scapegoat theory? This is a common dynamic in a dysfunctional family where one child is singled out to be blamed and abused - the problem is them. This is also hard for the other(golden) child but appalling for the scapegoat. If you haven't before if may be cathartic for you to read up a bit about it and see if you recognise it. It can help to understand the 'why me' and thus address the shame. The abused child carries deep shame as the person only conclusion to 'why' is that there is something inherently wrong with them as why else would they be treated this way.

It was not your fault, you did nothing wrong. I hope that you can find a way to believe this

I was born late 70s. I don't know how common it was but I know it happened. It happened to me.

I can tell you that it is wrong, and that any right thinking person should have known it was wrong then. I am so sorry you had to go through all this

Good morning everyone and thank you so much for all your posts. I'm pleased to see the thread is stimulating some deep discussion and some useful dots are being joined 😃 I'd like to reply to some individual comments after I get through some Saturday morning housework! Also want to say please take extra care of yourself today if the thread has brought up any difficult feelings or anxious thought processes, not to mention physical pain. Be safe 🤗

@BeingATwatItsABingThing thanks for posting that graphic, it's fascinating. At first glance I'm seeing some Piaget, Erikson, etc and I love the colour coding 😉 Looks really useful and I'm sure some of the kids you teach/care for will really benefit from your training.

[quote baroqueandblue]@BeingATwatItsABingThing thanks for posting that graphic, it's fascinating. At first glance I'm seeing some Piaget, Erikson, etc and I love the colour coding 😉 Looks really useful and I'm sure some of the kids you teach/care for will really benefit from your training.[/quote]
That’s ok. I really hope the approach makes a difference to children. Maybe even my own so I know what they need too.

Abuse is still abuse, whether more acceptable given the time or not. That came from a counsellor I saw after a breakdown in yet another toxic relationship.

& yes, weird AF to get the other parent involved in punishing you.

You don't have to live in the shadow of it though, counselling can really help. It did for me & I didn't even realise the abuse in my head as it was more normal for the times. I sought counselling after a relationship with a narcissist who was still stalking me, amazed that yet again I missed the signs & let them go.
I learnt that my early childhood was "built on sand" so I had no clue how to build solid concrete relationships & so was always suffered by manipulative arsehole guys

My next & last relationship was & still is completely different to anything I've had before, because I'm different