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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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AIBU To feel this scarred me - *Content warning: concerns child abuse*

81 replies

baroqueandblue · 18/06/2021 14:46

A thread about tapping a child because the child hit another child has brought something up for me which I’ve always wondered about. I’m male, early 50s, so this was in the early/mid 70s.

Friends of my parents came to visit with their children one weekend. I was 5, my brother was 4, and we didn’t get on. When he was born I was neglected (from what I’ve been told) and my father (an addict) was violent towards me but not my brother, which further destabilised me. This day we were playing with the visiting couple’s children, all primary age but older than us. I threw a book across the bedroom and it hit my brother on the nose, causing a bleed. I don’t remember if I meant to hit him with it, but it’s possible. What I remember next is a discussion between my parents and their friends about who should beat me as a punishment. I sat on the sofa waiting for the verdict, and it was decided that the visiting father should have the honour. He took me into the bedroom and thrashed me. I have an image of him removing his belt but that could be a false memory. What I do recall is feeling fear, shame and humiliation.

This episode is the tip of the iceberg in terms of abuse and bullying I suffered growing up, but it gives a flavour of what I went through. I’ve had significant problems as an adult making relationships and holding down jobs, although I’m fairly bright academically and have some long-standing close friends. But whereas both my siblings have successful marriages and steady jobs and their own homes, I’ve struggled to survive in the world of work, always rented and had short-lived relationships that ended unhappily in one way or another. I’m gay and, growing up when I did, suffered from ignorance and rejection within my family and among school friends which I think went quite deep.

But I suppose what I’m interested to discover is if the example of the beating I was given surprises many people, or if it was fairly common back then.

YABU – this was acceptable then and fairly common, get over it

YANBU – this wasn’t widespread and was abusive, no wonder you’ve struggled

OP posts:
baroqueandblue · 18/06/2021 17:24

Just a very quick 'holding' post as I've only just had an opportunity to catch up with the posts and feel very moved by them. After I've processed a bit I'll write a proper reply, but just wanted to thank you all for your kindness and support.

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thecatsmum12346 · 18/06/2021 17:33

This is just awful. I sympathise. My father in law had a cane and belt for my husband. Funny though, everything I do in terms of even raising my voice to the kids is criticised. From what is see of my parents generation (I am not impressed) …my parents never touched me but there was little warmth or fun. It’s only now ( I am in my 50’s) things seem better. I am curious to know if your parents are still alive and if you have confronted them about their behaviour? You need to be strong and value yourself.

baroqueandblue · 18/06/2021 19:21

@floppybit your incomprehension at the situation is very helpful to me, as I’ve always felt so uncertain about the impact of what I went through. My father would snap when I was small. He once gave me a black eye and knocked me halfway across the room. I was 6. Another time, he stripped and beat me so furiously that I soiled myself, and all because I’d got upset about not being able to have the free toy in a new cereal packet (not to be opened until the previous box was finished). Looking back, my crying over such things was understandable – I must’ve been extremely emotionally confused Confused

@Tlollj thank you. In recent years I’ve been a big part of my best friends’ children’s lives, and at times it has struck me that their upbringing is significantly different to my own. They have never been hit or deprived of anything they needed, and have been actively loved and respected even when their behaviour might have been a little trying. By which I mean, typically-developing children, with the best will in the world, can go through ‘difficult’ phases, but they’ve never been made to feel anything other than human and lovable, and it shows. I once let slip that I was beaten by teachers (one teacher broke one of my little fingers with a heavy board ruler and nothing was ever said); the children’s genuine shock that such a thing could happen spoke volumes to me. Violence and the unremarkably punitive attitudes of adults characterised my childhood.

@funnylittlefloozie yes I got the slipper, shoes, hairbrushes, even a stair rod! Even the “normal” smacking was outlawed after we’d grown up, wasn’t it? So your comment helps me to put what I went through in greater context, thank you.

@BeingATwatItsABingThing you see, that’s just it - some people might think it disingenuous of me, at my age, to start this thread. Surely I’d know such experiences would continue to have an impact on me, but that’s just it. For as long as I can remember I’ve been unable to trust my own judgment and suffered pernicious guilt over what I went through. I really struggle to believe I’ve ‘got a point’ by feeling the way I have about myself. My thought processes are very self-defeating and I blame myself for wasting opportunities and struggling with relationships. But I honestly have always felt as though I’m fighting a losing battle with life. Thank you for feeling so strongly, it helps me to gauge where I’ve been.

@LadyEuphemia I honestly wouldn’t know where to begin…

@thinkingaboutLangCleg the social workers overlooked our family! Wink Seriously though, nobody I ever met growing up raised as much as an eyebrow over the treatment I received. As an adult I’ve wondered if there was something particularly odd about my hometown. I was abused at home, in the street, at school and in other people’s homes and if anyone was concerned they never showed it.

@Bowlofcereal I’m deeply moved by your words and their insight. I’ll treasure your post. I’ve trained to work therapeutically with children but a line manager told me early on I wasn’t robust enough to bear the emotional burden of it and although I didn’t want to hear it, she was right. I’m still adding to my training but not actually working anymore and don’t know if I’ll ever be strong enough to. You can probably understand why I’m driven to, nevertheless. Your empathy reminds me that when I was 5, in my first primary school, I had a teacher who made me feel very special and clever. She adored me, and I realised a few years ago that she probably intuited that I had a very troubling family set-up. She may well have acted upon her suspicions ultimately, but we moved away before she got the chance, when I was 6. At the primary school I went to after that, my mother was a big part of the PTA and knew some of the teachers socially. Any possible concerns on their part were doubtless overridden by that ‘incestuous’ small-town inter-mingling between parents and teachers. So many instances of neglect and abuse in my young life were either ignored, covered up or simply not comprehended for what they actually were. Things have changed a lot since then, of course, although I know a lot still goes under the radar even now. The little boy I was… thank you for reminding me, but for some reason it’s very difficult for me to connect to him. Or maybe the pain and depression I feel is him. Such a mess.

I would like to reply to everyone else’s posts too, but will take a break for now Flowers

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BeingATwatItsABingThing · 18/06/2021 20:02

@BeingATwatItsABingThing you see, that’s just it - some people might think it disingenuous of me, at my age, to start this thread. Surely I’d know such experiences would continue to have an impact on me, but that’s just it. For as long as I can remember I’ve been unable to trust my own judgment and suffered pernicious guilt over what I went through. I really struggle to believe I’ve ‘got a point’ by feeling the way I have about myself. My thought processes are very self-defeating and I blame myself for wasting opportunities and struggling with relationships. But I honestly have always felt as though I’m fighting a losing battle with life. Thank you for feeling so strongly, it helps me to gauge where I’ve been.

I hope my post didn’t come across as me thinking your post pointless. That isn’t at all how I intended for it to come across. Child abuse is so damaging and it’s completely understandable that you are struggling to deal with it now. It breaks my heart that no one is there to protect the children this happens to. I wish I could save them all.

dalrympy · 18/06/2021 20:09

Not normal. I grew up in the 70s and the odd rap, smack etc was relatively normal but a beating was not.

A friends dad beat her (special needs) brother with a belt over the garden bench set, in front of me and I was shocked to the core as was my mum when I told her.

It was abuse then, just as it is now.

Auntienumber8 · 18/06/2021 20:09

I think in that time period a single slap on the back of the legs is what would have been seen as far more common. So when people do the it didn’t do me any harm and back in my day they are really relaying something like that, not great but not what happened to you.

What you are describing is a sustained beating. I was also beaten as a child with a bamboo cane and other implements. It was really cruel and I’m sorry you had to go through that.

justthecat · 18/06/2021 20:18

I remember my dad putting a belt over me and my sis door as a threat but was never used. He never touched us it was mother that was the poisonous bitch.
I’m sorry you had to go through what you did,the fact they decided who would punish you is beyond words . Realise you are better and stronger and wiser than ever them were

DrJPuddleDuck · 18/06/2021 20:20

I’m so sorry this happened to you, and the impact it has had on your life. I would highly recommend speaking to someone who might be able to help you to make sense of what has happened to you and offer you support to process the impact of this.

baroqueandblue · 18/06/2021 20:26

I hope my post didn’t come across as me thinking your post pointless. That isn’t at all how I intended for it to come across. Child abuse is so damaging and it’s completely understandable that you are struggling to deal with it now. It breaks my heart that no one is there to protect the children this happens to. I wish I could save them all.

If absolutely didn't, please don't worry! 🤗 I had a feeling I hadn't worded my response very well, I'm sorry about that. Your empathy for suffering children is very clear and I only hope it doesn't take too much from you. I struggle with feeling powerless to save them, it can feel like torture and very enervating. I hope you have good coping strategies. You come across as genuinely concerned and your post told me something precious about the sane response to what I went through. whereas my childhood only taught me madness and self-cancelling.

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baroqueandblue · 18/06/2021 20:30

@dalrympy I've read that a child simply witnessing such abuse is disturbing and traumatic. I'm sorry you were exposed to such brutality. The (sane) reaction you describe, and that of your mother, was absent from my childhood.

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Vivi0 · 18/06/2021 20:33

I am so sorry this happened to you. I have a 5 year old boy and I can’t even imagine.

I was born in the 80s, but I can’t imagine this was commonplace in the 70s. I can’t imagine, as a mother, allowing anyone to beat your 5 year old child as you sat outside listening. This was abuse. This should never have happened to you. I’m so sorry.

baroqueandblue · 18/06/2021 20:33

@Auntienumber8 what happened to you is shocking and must've been devastating. Was there anyone around you who understood and tried to console and protect you? I'm sorry you were so maltreated.

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baroqueandblue · 18/06/2021 20:37

@justthecat thank you for your supportive message. Your mother sounds harmful and I hope your suffering has been healed to some extent at least.

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baroqueandblue · 18/06/2021 20:43

@DrJPuddleDuck I had a lovely therapist for a number of years, all paid for with the DLA I got at that time. He heard some of my story but not all of it, for various reasons. When he moved away from the area I was devastated and so far haven't been able to contemplate starting therapy with someone else. I'm scared of losing another, or perhaps worse, not feeling able to connect with them. But I appreciate your helpful suggestion and I will think about it over the summer. There's definitely unfinished work, my life still feels quite stuck and getting even older (!) doesn't help either.

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justthecat · 18/06/2021 20:48

Thanks for your reply, I knew growing up she was a bad mother but when you have your own kids i just don’t understand how she was so nasty.
I Always thought it was a my generation thing everybody was treated the same ,until this day somebody my age saying they had a nice childhood Is strange

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 18/06/2021 20:52

@baroqueandblue

I hope my post didn’t come across as me thinking your post pointless. That isn’t at all how I intended for it to come across. Child abuse is so damaging and it’s completely understandable that you are struggling to deal with it now. It breaks my heart that no one is there to protect the children this happens to. I wish I could save them all.

If absolutely didn't, please don't worry! 🤗 I had a feeling I hadn't worded my response very well, I'm sorry about that. Your empathy for suffering children is very clear and I only hope it doesn't take too much from you. I struggle with feeling powerless to save them, it can feel like torture and very enervating. I hope you have good coping strategies. You come across as genuinely concerned and your post told me something precious about the sane response to what I went through. whereas my childhood only taught me madness and self-cancelling.

I’m glad it didn’t come across that way.

I’m a teacher and the way I cope with not being able to help every child is by helping the ones I can. I can be their safe adult that they can rely on. I can be the one who is always there no matter what. I will flag up any hint that they might be suffering and do what I can to help them.

With my own children, I can raise them without even the threat of violence. I hope neither of my DDs will ever fear me or DH.

baroqueandblue · 18/06/2021 20:52

@Vivi0 it's lovely to hear that your son has a mother who finds such treatment of children incomprehensible. Thank you for calling what happened to me abuse, because my father never did and my mother, despite leaving him, viewed beatings as her go-to option for discipline. As I've gathered from what PPs have said, what happened to me wasn't typical of child rearing in the 70s, and as I got older I understood that the cultural climate was changing regarding smacking too. The 80s were great in so many ways, I hope you had a happy childhood 😊

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flippertygibbit · 18/06/2021 20:57

I think the beating was quite common but the discussion of who was going to do it outwith a parent was not. I have 4 siblings, we were never hit as children however we were terrified of DF so no need to hit. My DP was regularly beaten by his mother - belt/riding crop etc. We share the same scars, just some are visible and some aren't. Strangely neither of us had any issue with kids being (as we say in Scotland) getting a skelp on the bum.

marryberrycookbook · 18/06/2021 21:05

Really sorry to read this. Yes, this wasn't unusual sadly amongst people's own children, but for someone else to be invited to punish your child? No. Let's call it the child abuse that it absolutely and utterly was.

I remember as a child my brother and I would get hit with a slipper by our dad if we misbehaved. I never understood it, but I learned as I got older that that was his father did to him. It hasn't damaged me long term, thankfully, and I have a good relationship with my father but it's still an odd thing to have as a memory. I'm fairly ambivalent about it to be honest.

I hope you are able to find peace with it in the longterm, even if like my it's just an ambivalence.

CrazyNeighbour · 18/06/2021 21:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Babygotblueyes · 18/06/2021 21:12

While corporal punishment was not unheard of, but the 70s it was rarer - I did not know anyone who was punished that way. What tips this over for me is to make you sit there during the debate - that is just cruel.

81Byerley · 18/06/2021 21:25

My first child was born in 1970. What you experienced was just as much abuse then as it would be now. Certainly not normal.

RickOShay · 18/06/2021 21:37

It’s ok to be you @baroqueandblue.
Try and love the little boy you were. You didn’t deserve what happened to you and you couldn’t stop it. You suffered because of your family’s unresolved pain. Try now to resolve yours. Speak gently to yourself, and start to really love the person you are.
Sending you all the good things Flowers

baroqueandblue · 18/06/2021 21:50

@Sacredspace You absolutely did nothing to deserve the appalling abuse from that despicable ‘man’. The humiliation and violation you suffered was a reflection of his sick and twisted mind. Your mother was probably scared of him and/or the situation surrounding you all at the time, although I’m not making excuses for her – really, it’s for her to give her account of why she failed to save you from such abusive treatment.

Thank you for being brave enough to write about your painful experience, it helps me to know that others have survived such devastating assaults and can share their perspective. That sense you have of being maltreated by him on other occasions is very important, in my opinion – as children we are inherently honest and only learn to lie to ourselves for self-preservation. A deep part of you knows the full story and perhaps one day you’ll have an opportunity to go further into what happened to you with someone who can contain and honour your pain. I wish you the very best in life Flowers

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Mulberry974 · 18/06/2021 22:04

It was far more common for parents to slap their kids back then I think. My Dad used to threaten us with a belt but he never actually used it and we were never scared of him. But there is a sense to your story that it wasn't just being strict, it sounds abusive. Allowing another adult to hit your child is awful. I'm not surprised you feel the way you do.