To feel left out and upset?

[Leftoutandblue]

Hello all, feeling a bit blue tonight and wanted to see if I’m being oversensitive or not.

I live in a village and my 8 year old DD goes to the local primary. I’ve become friendly (or so I thought) with a few of the mums and we often hang out at the park and go for walks together. There is a WhatsApp group we use for arranging meet ups. However I’ve realised that they have been meeting up for walks without me and that they have another WhatsApp group without me in it. I feel so silly and I hate meeting up now knowing that I’m not part of their gang. But I see them every day at drop off/collection time.

I’m not sure how to play it. It’s making me feel very upset and no matter how hard I tell myself that it’s not a big deal, I can’t help the sinking feeling whenever they chat about doing something without me.

Am I overreacting? How can I get over this?

Hi OP, I'm sorry this is so shit. I just want to give perspective from the other side - maybe it isn't as deliberate and calculating as it feels? I'm in lots of WhatsApp groups (one of them is from Reception & our kids are now in secondary) & yes, we meet up for walks. Sometimes people post on one group to everyone, but there are definitely smaller groups that arrange to meet up. Conversation is different with 2 or 3 friends there - it's different to when there are 5 or 6 people or whatever, & if one of them is having a shit time, it's easier for them to talk to one or two people about it than a whole group.

It's not because we don't like any of the others! It's just dynamics of the group. Some of us live a bit nearer so we'll sometimes meet up without the others. Sometimes I'll bump into someone after school & invite them round, & end up inviting the friend who's having a tough time. None of it is pre-meditated meanness so I'm hoping that it might help explain your situation & make you feel better?

I agree with the other posters to organise something with one of the group that you feel most relaxed with, without too much pressure & see how you get on. And if they are genuinely horrible then sack them off & find friends who deserve you.

@NumberTheory

I'm going against the grain on this one.

You're in a friendship group with them. You do stuff with them that you all seem to enjoy. Why get upset that they seem to have other things going on too?

You aren't entitled to an invite to everything some of them do. Friendship groups are organic. Maybe a few of them just wanted to meet up in a smaller group sometimes, or they started something before they knew you and they like that dynamic. Or it's a group that built out of something entirely different.

You aren't in school yourselves. They aren't the cool clique keeping you out so they can flex their social power. They're just regular people who have a series of personal relationships that overlap instead of a monolithic bloc of people they feel obliged to everything with.

It doesn't mean you aren't liked or anything negative, just that they have found their own stability and aren't spending their time wondering if your social life is meeting all your needs and what they should do about it - that's your job.

Absolutely agree with this! Even though I totally understand and often have to battle feelings of rejection, the above comment is a mantra we must tell ourselves often - never assume anything (especially not sad stories about evil intent inside others) and just do your best.

Ah I feel for you. It’s not nice feeling left out or excluded, whatever age you are.

I agree with the idea to try to arrange something with 1-2 of the nuns you like the most.

I had similar with some friends. So I threw energy into extending and working on other social opportunities and that seems to have worked out well. Maybe look at what other relationship you have V so there isn’t so much pressure on and mum friendships.

I can understand why you would feel upset.
Normally in these women groups there are groups within the groups and some of them detest each other.All it takes is one cunt the rest are sheep

I agree with the idea to try to arrange something with 1-2 of the nuns you like the most.

Meant to add a witty comment but posted too soon!

I wouldn't be quick to assume you are being deliberately snubbed, or talked about. If one of the Mum's asked you a question about the other group she must have assumed you were part of it. It may well be an oversight, or someone simply not getting around to adding you.

I have several groups on whatsappthat feature some of the same people. If I have something to say that's relevant to only one of them I don't see the point in the others getting an unnecessary notification.

Isn't she close enough to the school that she could walk there by herself? I and many kids I knew at that age (8) were walking to and from school by ourselves, or with my best friend. Surely you won't need to walk her for much longer, so you won't need to see them.

That's horrible OP. As if there aren't enough ways to be bullied and excluded, along comes WhatsApp. I'd just concentrate on your real friends and ignore the school cliques (which will all fizzle out anyway as soon as their kids go off to 'big school').

I would be upset too but I would also be reluctant to condemn the whole lot of them as a load of bitches or as a queen bee and minions or whatever. You’ve been doing social things and enjoying them so why spoil it over something like this. It’s entirely possible that some/most/all haven’t even realised who is on what group and it’s just one of those things. If it turns out they started it up especially to chat and meet up without you then fair enough, cut them dead, but isn’t it more likely that it was a smaller group, perhaps for a specific event, that a couple more people got added to and now it’s just there without any of them thinking too much about it?

Yes I’ve had this. I wasn’t even invited to the WhatsApp group in the first place! Two of the parents said ‘we must put you on the group’ which is how I knew… and then obviously discussions were had and I wasn’t. I don’t live as near as the others to the small town school, but all of our kids are special needs and they all go to quite a small class. So my DS has been deliberately excluded as well by default. It’s really mean!

So yes be hurt it’s really divisive and pretty rubbish. Unless you are a complete pain (and I’m sure you aren’t) and in which case why would they be friends with you at all? These ‘in’ whatsapp groups are just rubbish.

@NumberTheory

I'm going against the grain on this one.

You're in a friendship group with them. You do stuff with them that you all seem to enjoy. Why get upset that they seem to have other things going on too?

You aren't entitled to an invite to everything some of them do. Friendship groups are organic. Maybe a few of them just wanted to meet up in a smaller group sometimes, or they started something before they knew you and they like that dynamic. Or it's a group that built out of something entirely different.

You aren't in school yourselves. They aren't the cool clique keeping you out so they can flex their social power. They're just regular people who have a series of personal relationships that overlap instead of a monolithic bloc of people they feel obliged to everything with.

It doesn't mean you aren't liked or anything negative, just that they have found their own stability and aren't spending their time wondering if your social life is meeting all your needs and what they should do about it - that's your job.

Yes, exactly. This isn’t the cool kids retreating to the VIP area, it’s most likely a bunch of people with different, fluid, overlapping social circles they do different things with. The OP doesn’t even know how many people are, as she perceives it, ‘left out” of the group she’s upset about — it could be lots. Like @HyggeTygge, I’m in lots of overlapping WhatsApp groups — even only considering those involving school parents, I’m in one whole class parent group that’s mostly about lost homework etc, one group that met occasionally during lockdown for a park coffee on a day we tended to be available, one more ‘social’ group that sometimes goes out at night in non-Covid times, and one composed of just DS’s friends’ parents for arranging play dates etc. There’s no ‘hierarchy’. They’re all set up so that any member can add someone who wants to join. And I’m brand new to the school, and the city, so certainly not any kind of queen bee.

@Bananasinpyjamas21

Yes I’ve had this. I wasn’t even invited to the WhatsApp group in the first place! Two of the parents said ‘we must put you on the group’ which is how I knew… and then obviously discussions were had and I wasn’t. I don’t live as near as the others to the small town school, but all of our kids are special needs and they all go to quite a small class. So my DS has been deliberately excluded as well by default. It’s really mean!

So yes be hurt it’s really divisive and pretty rubbish. Unless you are a complete pain (and I’m sure you aren’t) and in which case why would they be friends with you at all? These ‘in’ whatsapp groups are just rubbish.

I wasn’t added to the WhatsApp group at DS’s last school — in fact I only found out at the Year 2 nativity play that one had existed since Reception, when I sat next to another mother who was posting on it. I don’t think it was nastily intended —.I was one of very few WOHMs in the set of parents, and didn’t do the school run much, and it was quite focused on daytime stuff, so they didn’t really know me. I just asked the other mother sitting next to me who the administrator was and got myself added. It was useful for reminders about things, though I never socialised with them.

We've moved around and honestly I can say I've felt excluded in one way shape or form everywhere. I have come to the conclusion over time and observing the DC that my personality type is definitely not what I thought it was and unfortunately that DD is probably going the same way. I don't yet know if it goes beyond personality and into ADHD/ASD territory, all I know is it's crap and I lurch from one emotional crisis to another.

Mumsnet is quite the place to make you realise just how differently people see things given the same set of information. Whilst it's hard to comprehend how the people who are excluding you couldn't possibly not realise what they are doing, the distress they are causing to you by their actions etc etc, it's entirely possible that they are completely clueless. I feel everything on an extreme level, think I always have. Many people are on the other end of the spectrum and very little penetrates. You can probably tell I don't really have any wise words, but I completely feel your pain @Leftoutandblue.

I think I'd be upset that no one was 'missing me' from the group. But then the other half of me would think who cares, I'm happy in my own skin
I'd start making better friends
I'm sorry that this has happened though, it's thoughtless and hurtful

Aw op I feel for you, I would be upset by this too

I'm going to go against the majority here. I don't think this is "school mum" related - I think it's true of friendship groups in many different arenas.

The main issue is whether the OP is the only one excluded from the "sub" group. If the main group is 10 people, and the sub group is 5 people then, you know, actually that's fine - people can talk in different groups. Maybe the sub group know each other in a different way or have been friends for longer. If the main group is 6 people and OP is the only one not in the other group then I totally get that that is upsetting and very mean of the group

Rather than focussing on the negative - focus on the positive. OP says she enjoys the walks and the company of others. So why not carry on going on them? Also, it sounds that the group like her too, so why not just take that at face value? If they didn't want her there, they would soon make it pretty clear.

I'm in a group of about 12 people. We have a meet up once a month (well, we did pre-Covid) where a varying number of people come depending on other commitments. Some of the group meet in sub-groups - there are a few that work together so are naturally thrown more into each others companies and tend to organise more get togethers. 3 have been friends for ever and tend to meet for different sorts of conversations than in the main group. It absolutely is not meant to exclude anyone. I know it's not easy to do but you need to re-frame "my friends are meeting without me" to "my friends can have different sorts of friendships that don't involve me".
finally, as I always think on these sorts of threads - when the other mum mentioned the other walk, why on earth didn't you just say "Oh, I think I've missed that, when is it?" and then the mum would either say "oh, yes, you must come" or possibly "Oh no, that's just with the mums who are into crafts as we talk hobby stuff all the time".

What'sApp should come with a health warning!

OP, you are not the first nor the last primary school mum who goes through this. There are some very insecure and competitive mums with undeveloped social skills around. I had my own version of this during lockdown. Somebody I had considered a friend and whom I have known for a long time set up get-togethers with mutual friends from school leaving us out on purpose.

She created a WhatsApp group and group zoom calls for her dd with some of the girls in my dd's class who are also dd's close friends but she left my dd out of course. Plus, she arranged zoom catch ups with some of the mums who are mutual friends again, leaving me out. Due to a range of circumstances it resulted in our family feeling desperately isolated during the winter lockdown. I know I should be the bigger person, but I'm not sure I can ever forgive or trust that woman again. It made lockdown unnecessarily difficult for us. Unfortunately she lives next door too. There is definitely a type of school mum who makes other Schoo mums' lives hell. Usually driven by jealousy and competitiveness.

I’m amazed at all these mums with the time and energy for social engineering. I found other mums to be friendly and, as the class was very small, parties usually involved all the children or maybe just the boys/girls. However, most had careers/ran farms, etc and there was little socialising. I made friends with one or two and would fo a shopping trip or fitness class; I’m still friends in a casual way with them.
I only see one mum from the secondary years..

This has happened in my antenatal group. It's shocked me how much it hurts and has dented my confidence. Sorry you're going through thid OP.

@YumCrum

What'sApp should come with a health warning!

OP, you are not the first nor the last primary school mum who goes through this. There are some very insecure and competitive mums with undeveloped social skills around. I had my own version of this during lockdown. Somebody I had considered a friend and whom I have known for a long time set up get-togethers with mutual friends from school leaving us out on purpose.

She created a WhatsApp group and group zoom calls for her dd with some of the girls in my dd's class who are also dd's close friends but she left my dd out of course. Plus, she arranged zoom catch ups with some of the mums who are mutual friends again, leaving me out. Due to a range of circumstances it resulted in our family feeling desperately isolated during the winter lockdown. I know I should be the bigger person, but I'm not sure I can ever forgive or trust that woman again. It made lockdown unnecessarily difficult for us. Unfortunately she lives next door too. There is definitely a type of school mum who makes other Schoo mums' lives hell. Usually driven by jealousy and competitiveness.

I don’t understand, did you not organise anything?

i am dreading this. My DC starts school this year and we're moving to a tiny village. I have an only so I'm desperate for my DC to make some friends but I can so see myself being excluded because I'm a bit of an odd one (somewhat foreign, tattooed and quite timid blush). I think this is why I always keep my distance so I kind of exclude myself before others will, but I think I need to sort this out.

You are exactly the person I would seek out to be my mate. Don’t assume you won’t fit in. I tend to give everyone a good shit at friendship at the beginning and have found the people I want least to do with are the clique of upper middle class professional women who do wear the Breton tops and Boden coats. Not because they aren’t lively I’m sure, but they do tend to like to make a tribe together. Pretty much everyone else just hangs out in all different groups, pulled together very often by the children’s friendships.

*shot 🙈🤣🥴😳

Sometimes leaving people out is not done deliberately and spitefully. And I say this as someone who has often been left out. Instead, people just don't think to invite you or you just don't have that sort of friendship with them. There are parents I chat to in the playground or at pick-up and we have talked about meeting for coffee with our DC now it is allowed. But that doesn't mean I will be having evening Zoom catch-ups drinking wine with them anytime soon or inviting them on trips with us. We're not (yet) friendly enough that I'd feel comfortable doing that.

There are two things you can do if you think people are leaving you out of some things. The first is to humpff off in a huff and avoid those people as much as possible in future. The second, if you don't think they're being deliberately unpleasant, is to leave the lines of communication open, accept the degree of friendship which is being offered and see if it turns into anything deeper/closer in the future.

Next time you're all standing together waiting to collect ask them about the other WhatsApp group. Squirm! Just smile hold your head up and find another thing to occupy your time. It's upsetting and disappointing but they've shown you who they are. You're bigger than that.