To think WHO are trying to commit organisational suicide? They’ve said that women of childbearing age should not drink alcohol AT ALL.

[RickiTarr]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/16/accused-sexism-saying-women-childbearing-age-should-not-drink/

Reducing alcohol consumption would be 100% within their remit as would culture change around drinking. But they have gone too far and not thought about the implications of the length of time a woman could be of child bearing age. I think more education around risks of FAS etc absolutely fine, promoting going teetotal while TTC, raising awareness of risks of drinking while having unprotected sex. Suggesting that all women of child age stop drinking = problematic.

What about men? Excess alcohol consumption in men leads to increased violence against each other and against women. Probably at a higher rate than FAS.

@fallfallfall

There’s very little doubt in my mind the issue is more of a male problem, especially violence while drunk but teaching other ways of coping and enjoying yourself without alcohol seems like a good plan.

Theres no doubt in my mind that mostly men will have issues with alcohol and related violence, depression, etc. But nowhere does this WHO guidance say that men of a child procreating age shouldnt drink. And they can procreate well into their 70s.

Nope it's all left to the women as usual.

And as someone on Twitter pointed out - there is no censure regarding : Trans Men who are stuffing themselves with male hormones and then deliberately becoming pregnant (as they is their "right"), even though the long term effects of high levels of testosterone on the foetus are not known (and let's be frank - can't be good).

And if the WHO also believes that TM are men, does that mean that these TM mothers they can drink as much as they want?

It may result in a lot of gender-fluid individuals, I suppose, as the trans who self-identify as women when they want to steal women's spaces and awards, change back to blokes when they fancy a pint . . .

What about alcohol-fuelled violence? This results in many hundreds of deaths and injuries every year - mostly male violence, and mostly female and children's deaths and injuries.

Where is the prohibition against men drinking?

@Redbottle

What about men? Excess alcohol consumption in men leads to increased violence against each other and against women. Probably at a higher rate than FAS.

Sorry Red. I didn't read right through and didn't realise you'd addressed the male violence aspect.

Not only misogynistic but homophobic (they don’t seem to have heard of lesbians) and they use the godawful “pregnant people”, too.

It's not the WHO that use the 'pregnant people' term though, is it? From your post, that came from the Portman Group's response.

I should think that if you did the sums, you’d find an awful lot more children and babies were harmed by male drinking than by female drinking, all things considered.

Instead of looking at controlling alcohol, why not focus on improving access to birth control? This has so many benefits for women as well as their children - and is a much better way of reducing alcohol consumption during early, accidental pregnancy (by reducing the accidental pregnancies!).

@Awalkintime

Funny they know what sex is when they want to control a single group.

Yes - remarkable, that.

@Temp023

I should think that if you did the sums, you’d find an awful lot more children and babies were harmed by male drinking than by female drinking, all things considered.

And yes, absolutely also this

@merrymouse

TBH, I’m more on the side of the WHO than the Portman group.

"It is wrong to scaremonger in this irresponsible way and associate women's alcohol-related risks with those of children and pregnant people."

I think they may be onto something with their link between women and pregnant people...

I don’t think it’s wrong to note sex specific impacts of alcohol. I do wonder whether they also note the impact of drinking on male violence?

I agree it's not wrong to highlight the sex specific impacts of indirect harm caused by drinking alcohol. The report doesn't do that though. It makes vague references to violence and interpersonal violence being a consequence of alcohol consumption - it never specifies who are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of that violence. Equally there is no recommendation to try and reduce male drinking even though the report acknowledges that it's mostly men who are problem drinkers and mostly men who are directly harmed by drinking alcohol. Nope, what they see as the real problem and really home in on is women/foetal alcohol syndrome 🤨

@NiceGerbil

I'm 47 and still can't drink according to that.

Do they believe women are people and deserving of bodily autonomy or not?

This is straight out of the playbook of male led patriarchal religions that see women as no more than breeding stock that needs to be tightly controlled.

This

I’ve long thought that people take too much of what is put out by the WHO as gospel, so actually it’s good that people are now questioning what they say.

But it's OK to take pethidine which is an opiate, in labour?

Blimey they threw that in there easily

Did any woman of child bearing age review it?

Crazy

Surely banning all men from drinking would be more beneficial to the children, due to the reduction in violence, including to the foetus? No? I see.

Fuck the WHO and the patriarchy they support.

@PicsInRed

Surely banning all men from drinking would be more beneficial to the children, due to the reduction in violence, including to the foetus? No? I see.

Fuck the WHO and the patriarchy they support.

Exactly. Why are men never subjected to these controlling statements?

Statement on men drinking in same way would keep all of us safer

What idiots

I don’t drink alcohol but this is enough to make me want to start.

Doesn’t surprise me. This is the same organisation that says breastfeeding for all women saves lives, based on studies done in countries where there’s no clean water for formula feeding. It’s the same ridiculous extrapolation of a circumstance to all women while rejecting their bodily autonomy.

Yes. It really damages their credibility too and makes people disinclined to follow other health advice which actually might be valid.

@JeanClaudeVanDammit

I don’t drink alcohol but this is enough to make me want to start.

Doesn’t surprise me. This is the same organisation that says breastfeeding for all women saves lives, based on studies done in countries where there’s no clean water for formula feeding. It’s the same ridiculous extrapolation of a circumstance to all women while rejecting their bodily autonomy.

Yes. It really damages their credibility too and makes people disinclined to follow other health advice which actually might be valid.

Hahah, yes! I'm pregnant and choosing not to drink and it made me want to pour myself a glass of wine just to say fuck you WHO.

Do they think women of child-bearing age are incapable of controlling whether they become pregnant or not?

It's reasonable to have specific guidance for women who are pregnant or trying to conceive.

Any other guidance should apply to all adults irrespective of sex or age.

I don't disagree with the points made by PP.

I did look through the report. This is one line. Not any kind of recommendation or action plan.

There is a huge amount of detail in the report. I agree this is poor phrasing, however, it's hyperbolic to talk about Gilead & control of women.

The context of that paragraph (and the entire report) is that ultimately, alcohol consumption isn't a good thing, and the draft report is linked to an action to actively reduce that. (Many may disagree but this is the position held by WHO, and the basis for the report).

Within that, they make reference to 'appropriate attention' being paid to certain groups in terms of alcohol consumption, and refer to 'women of child-bearing age'.

It's a clumsy poorly-thought out line, for sure, and there are many arguments to be made against the stance.

But the reactions are over-the-top. The full report does not pursue this particular line, the recommendations align with their stance on this, and it's possible just to note it's one line in a draft document, it's really not the WHO screaming that no woman who is of child-bearing age should have any alcohol.

@EarringsandLipstick

I don't disagree with the points made by PP.

I did look through the report. This is one line. Not any kind of recommendation or action plan.

There is a huge amount of detail in the report. I agree this is poor phrasing, however, it's hyperbolic to talk about Gilead & control of women.

The context of that paragraph (and the entire report) is that ultimately, alcohol consumption isn't a good thing, and the draft report is linked to an action to actively reduce that. (Many may disagree but this is the position held by WHO, and the basis for the report).

Within that, they make reference to 'appropriate attention' being paid to certain groups in terms of alcohol consumption, and refer to 'women of child-bearing age'.

It's a clumsy poorly-thought out line, for sure, and there are many arguments to be made against the stance.

But the reactions are over-the-top. The full report does not pursue this particular line, the recommendations align with their stance on this, and it's possible just to note it's one line in a draft document, it's really not the WHO screaming that no woman who is of child-bearing age should have any alcohol.

Yes it is poorly added and it makes me wonder who writes and reviews the documents and why it’s picked up here and not there.

I've never been pregnant and I've never wanted to have children, so if I did accidentally get pregnant, I would have an abortion. Obviously, women like me are not considered in this advice, it's assumed that any woman of childbearing age who accidentally got pregnant would gestate the baby, because we're just baby making uteruses dislocated from any kind of agency.