To think instead of raising the legal age we should do this instead

[Marriageisspecial]

There is a private member’s bill going through the commons to raise the legal age to get married from 16 to 18. I currently know two school leavers who have just ‘sat’ (different with covid) their GCSEs who are planning on getting married they are both the same age and they live together ect. I know another 16 year old who is starting an apprenticeship in September and will be earning £12,500 per year. I do also understand the concern over coercion and being married off to much older men. However there are also young couples who may want to get married also situations if one has a terminal illness and wants to marry their girlfriend/boyfriend or a teenage pregnancy. So Aibu to think instead we should adopt the system of Texas where you must apply to the court to get married if you are 16-18 this way we could still protect people but make provision for the above cases?

Wiki

Within the United States, each state, territory and federal district sets the marriage age in its jurisdiction. As of July 1, 2019, in 13 states there was no statutory minimum age when all exemptions were taken into account. These states were California, Idaho, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Washington, West Virginia, and Wyoming.[2] As of August 2020, four states have banned underage marriages, with no exception: New Jersey (2018),[3] Delaware (2018),[4] Pennsylvania (2020)[5] and Minnesota (2020).[6] American Samoa and the U.S. Virgin Islands, United States territories, have also ended child marriage in that time.[7][8] Several other U.S. states have similar legislation pending.[9

I thought 16yo olds can get married as long as they have parental consent?

I think the age of consent should be changed so that 16 and 17 yos can only have sex with other 16 and 17 yos.

No, there are better things for courts to be doing and there are better things for sixteen and seventeen year olds to be doing.

NO minimum age. None.

And more from wiki

Unchained At Last, the only non profit advocacy group dedicated to ending child marriage in the United States, found that only 14% of the child marriages conducted from 2000 to 2010 were between two children marrying each other.[12] In most cases, child marriages are between a minor and an adult.[26] In terms of spousal age, the majority of those surveyed, about 60%, reported being 18–20 years old. Less than 3% reported being over 29 years of age.[10] In over 400 cases, the adult was aged over 40. And in 31 cases, they were over 60.

According to data compiled by Anjali Tsui, Dan Nolan, and Chris Amico, who looked at almost 200,000 cases of child marriage from 2000-2015:

67% of the children were aged 17.
29% of the children were aged 16.
4% of the children were aged 15.

I remember teaching a (incredibly stroppy and immature) year 11 who was engaged and parents had told her she could get married as soon as she finished her exams. I do wonder what happened. I bet it wasn't good

18 is ok but for many around the world not just the UK there will be an argument that the age of consent and the age for marriage should be the same. I am not saying this but the vast majority of the world's population are not in Western Europe and do not want Western Europe telling them what is right and wrong, they had enough of that in the empire days ( whether UK or Belgium or France or Spain or Germany etc etc )
The idea behind it will be to stop forced marriages on girls and boys too young, but it has to be equal and in line with consent for other things.
A premature unwise marriage can be ended with divorce you can't argue on one hand that a 16 year is too immature to consent to marriage and vote or have a tattoo or a beer, but perfectly mature enough for live changing transition surgery, or to fight in a war
In the UK there is almost nothing that has an age beyond 18, you can't become a doctor or an MP, it is very difficult to stop anyone inheriting at 18 as the change in law made it difficult to tie up money beyond 18,

@mainsfed

I thought 16yo olds can get married as long as they have parental consent?

I think the age of consent should be changed so that 16 and 17 yos can only have sex with other 16 and 17 yos.

Why?

You want two 15 yo who have consensual sex criminalised? Why is that something you would be keen on?

Our consent laws and sex offence laws are robust and progressive compared to an awful lot of places.

They are not enforced when they should be eg Rotherham.

Our current prosection guidelines say that there is no public interest in prosecuting similarly aged teens where one or both of them are under 16 but over 13 I think it is.

And I think that's fine.

It's grooming exploitation abuse that needs to be stopped and our existing laws allow for that. Sadly they are not applied much.

16 is a child. 16 is too young to make a decision that is supposed to last their entire lifetime. 16 is too young to make that commitment. Parents shouldn't even be endorsing super serious relationships at 16!

I'll say it again, 16 is a child.

Also 12k is a shit salary so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything?

50% of marriages fail. People live a lot longer than they used to. Getting married at 16 is therefore statistically more likely to end in divorce than if you wait 10 years (48% vs 25% in those age groups respectively, according to an American study)

Why would you think that's a tradition to be upheld? Marriage needs maturity and shared values. Most 16 year olds are just not mature enough, for that level of commitment and we've moved on from pregnancy out of wedlock being shameful (at least in the majority of cases), or women needing the support of a man for fear of being financially impoverished (I'm generalising of course but you get my meaning?)

@TeacupDrama

18 is ok but for many around the world not just the UK there will be an argument that the age of consent and the age for marriage should be the same. I am not saying this but the vast majority of the world's population are not in Western Europe and do not want Western Europe telling them what is right and wrong, they had enough of that in the empire days ( whether UK or Belgium or France or Spain or Germany etc etc ) The idea behind it will be to stop forced marriages on girls and boys too young, but it has to be equal and in line with consent for other things. A premature unwise marriage can be ended with divorce you can't argue on one hand that a 16 year is too immature to consent to marriage and vote or have a tattoo or a beer, but perfectly mature enough for live changing transition surgery, or to fight in a war In the UK there is almost nothing that has an age beyond 18, you can't become a doctor or an MP, it is very difficult to stop anyone inheriting at 18 as the change in law made it difficult to tie up money beyond 18,

Why would there be an age of consent argument? Consenting to sex, and entering a legally binding contract are very different.

It's not about us telling anyone to do anything. It's to be in line with the WHO and other international orgs.

The more countries that have 18 the harder it becomes to argue that less is AOK. it's a move to show support. It has very little impact here- marriages under 18 are low in number. It might stop things if any of them are pressured due to pregnancy or sex outside marriage. We have a lot of pretty fundamental religious groups in my area including Christian.

America is in Western Europe. I mean they won't be told but the stats are terrible. And it's been argued (as I just saw on Google) that
No one wants to see illegitimate children born
Plenty of girls get pregnant young
They must be allowed to marry (allowed...!)

Coincidentally states where they want to ban abortion.

It's so in your face and upsetting.

Anyway sidetrack.

My view is it costs us nothing really and could help. So for me it's not why, but why not.

When you have sex (with someone of the opposite sex), there is a risk that either you or your partner will get pregnant. You will then either be responsible for a child, or you or your partner will be facing a life-changing decision to abort or put your child up for adoption.

If you are not mature enough to get married (which is a legal contract) then should you have the option of being legally responsible for a child?

I think the age of consent and the age of marriage have to go hand in hand. Having sex is also potentially a decision with lifelong, life-changing, legal consequences.

It’s always seemed odd to me that you can’t legally drive until 17 or buy alcohol till 18 but you can get married at 16 which is a far bigger deal.

I’m all for raising it to 18. The instances where it would be a good idea for two 16 year olds to get married are vanishingly small.

Why?

To help stop grooming of 16 and 17 yos.

You want two 15 yo who have consensual sex criminalised? Why is that something you would be keen on?

Did I say that? All I mentioned was 16 and 17 yos. Regardless it already is criminalised, if not enforced, ‘It is a criminal offence for anyone who is 16 or older to have any kind of sexual contact with someone aged 13, 14 or 15. It is also a criminal offence for both girls and boys aged 13, 14 and 15 to have consensual sex with anyone else aged 13, 14 or 15. This applies whether they are the initiating partner or the consenting partner.’

There is no negative at all to not being able to marry at 16. If their love is oh so true () it can wait 2 years. There are no disadvantages and nothing to miss out on. No one NEEDS to get married at 16.

There is a lot of potential for abuse, exploitation and coercion and this law could prevent some of it.

I have lived in Rhode Island all my life. 33 persons under 18 were issued marriage licenses in 2013-19. The Governor just signed a bill forbidding all marriage of persons under 18. As for pregnant teens, it would be better that adoption rather than raising the baby was encouraged. They are not emotionally, physically,, or financially ready to be good mothers. Children of single mothers have worse educational, social, and mental outcome than those born within marriage.

That sounds nice but how do you want that to work in practice?

Girl under 18 gets pregnant. That is illegal because of the sex that got her pregnant. What punishments do you want for them? You say they shouldn't be old enough to be legally responsible for a baby. Does that mean they have to choose abortion or adoption?

Older men often target younger girls. How do you handle that in the event of a pregnancy?

What about the point that essentially if you have sex with a person of the same sex then you can easily evade this?

What of the fact that getting pregnant young is a big enough deal and life changing without adding a criminal record into the mix? And the trauma around abortion/ adoption?

So many questions.

And it's still different to entering a formal legally binding contract.

'As for pregnant teens, it would be better that adoption rather than raising the baby was encouraged. They are not emotionally, physically,, or financially ready to be good mothers. Children of single mothers have worse educational, social, and mental outcome than those born within marriage.'

Ah it's starting to come out now!

You don't mention abortion. Why not?

Single mothers being strongly encouraged/ persuaded/ coerced to give up their babies...

Hmmm that sounds familiar! I'm sure I read something about that happening in the UK on the news the other day. And saw it on the news. And on discussion progs. And interviews with some of the women... Maybe you noticed? There was also something over the water about some laundries I believe..

Wonderful plan!

@Ericaequites

I have lived in Rhode Island all my life. 33 persons under 18 were issued marriage licenses in 2013-19. The Governor just signed a bill forbidding all marriage of persons under 18. As for pregnant teens, it would be better that adoption rather than raising the baby was encouraged. They are not emotionally, physically,, or financially ready to be good mothers. Children of single mothers have worse educational, social, and mental outcome than those born within marriage.

Well if a teenager is pregnant and doesn’t want to be a mum she could have an abortion, if she wants to be a mum she needs to be supported to do that.

Adoption should always be the very very last resort.

Tbh I think 18 is probably about right. Under 18 is still a child.

@Ericaequites

I have lived in Rhode Island all my life. 33 persons under 18 were issued marriage licenses in 2013-19. The Governor just signed a bill forbidding all marriage of persons under 18. As for pregnant teens, it would be better that adoption rather than raising the baby was encouraged. They are not emotionally, physically,, or financially ready to be good mothers. Children of single mothers have worse educational, social, and mental outcome than those born within marriage.

Wrong. Support and availability of choice should be encouraged. Regardless if the choices are adoption,abortion or keeping the baby.

The best thing you can do for a teen mum is to give her choices and support her in those choices. Not decide that she'll be a crap mum because of her age and take her baby away from her.

I think we've got to a position where rather than having a gradual/ staggered entry to adulthood, which actually does have its advantages, more and more has shifted to 18.

I think we should leave the age of consent where it is, and also leave the age of marriage where it is. I think children should be discouraged from having sex, as they should from drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, taking drugs, watching violent films and a host of other things. If children of 16 or 17 get pregnant, I do think they ought to be able to get married, and to have the option of building a family unit, reflecting that they are parents and responsible for their own children.

I also see the potential for abuse and in no way do I want to support this.

In my circles I've mostly seen Christian religious commentators wanting to make the age of consent and the age of marriage the same. I'm not unreligious, BUT I see and support a difference in secular law. 'Consent' in the sense 'has enough autonomy for sex not to be hugely imbalanced in power terms' is about protecting young people from coercion or bullying if or when bodily stuff is happening. It is different from the ability to think ahead and plan enough to build and share a life. It's totally not the same as being mature enough to consent to marriage. I sharply remember my teens and I didn't have much sense till my 30s, frankly.

What the fuck has an apprenticeship got to do with it?

I've worked since I was 16. Didn't mean I should get married.

@blueandwhiteteapot

I think we've got to a position where rather than having a gradual/ staggered entry to adulthood, which actually does have its advantages, more and more has shifted to 18.

I think we should leave the age of consent where it is, and also leave the age of marriage where it is. I think children should be discouraged from having sex, as they should from drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, taking drugs, watching violent films and a host of other things. If children of 16 or 17 get pregnant, I do think they ought to be able to get married, and to have the option of building a family unit, reflecting that they are parents and responsible for their own children.

I also see the potential for abuse and in no way do I want to support this.

Why can't they wait two more years?

No, no child needs to get married for any reason. It’s a flat no from me