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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Hitting back

84 replies

Hullabaloo9 · 15/06/2021 22:07

I am a bit conflicted about how I feel on this one. My ds(4) was involved in a minor alteration at school today. He and a good friend were arguing about something silly. Friend squeezed sons arm and dug in his nails, breaking the skin. Son said he would tell the teacher so friend restrained him to prevent this. Son hit friend. They were both told off by the teacher and are still best of friends. Its just one of those things that happens with kids this age. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. I'm happy with how it was dealt with.

However, it got me thinking, I'm not sure if I really should further reprimand my son for hitting in this instance. Obviously its not ideal and I have always drummed into him that if someone hurts him he should tell the teacher... but if that option is not possible?

I am tempted to tell him (probably when he's a bit older to be honest) that he must first shout out loudly "stop it, you are hurting me" at least 3 times and if no help is available that he can defend himself. In these circumstances he can hit as hard as he can but only once, and then go and find a teacher as soon as possible.

To avoid drip feeding, he is my third child. My older two I definitely followed the school line of no hitting under any circumstances, no retaliation, always just tell a teacher. My middle son suffered some prolonged bullying in upper primary and although being considerably bigger than his bullies he would never ever hit back. Maybe I wish he would have.

Please share honestly how you advise your kids on this issue. I honestly don't know what's the right approach.

OP posts:

Original poster

Hullabaloo9 · 16/06/2021 00:04

If I was attacked walking home one night I would perhaps use my keys to gouge at the attackers face. That's one thing I was taught at a self defense for women group through work. That would be a horrific act of violence. I would never ever do such a thing unless necessary (and I'm not sure I could even then). Is that unacceptable?

OP posts:

wherewildflowersgrow · 16/06/2021 00:05

I completely agree. My eldest was always told to never hit and it did him no favours at all in the rough and tumble of a boy's life, when he was young. With my younger son I advised to never hit first but that it was ok in self defence. He's more confident.

Tossblanket · 16/06/2021 00:06

@FATEdestiny

You teach him how to de-esculate.

What happens when that fails to work?

Or are you one of those people that genuinely believes you can reason with anyone?

Original poster

Hullabaloo9 · 16/06/2021 00:06

Actually @FATEdestiny you lost me when you said "The only reason bullying is on going is when it is not reported". That's absolutely not true. Some schools are woeful at dealing with or admitting to bullying

OP posts:

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 16/06/2021 00:07

As per my post above. The only reason bullying is on going is when it is not reported

That's not always the case. It can be reported until you're blue in the face, it needs to be dealt with properly and schools are notorious for not dealing with it properly.

Ozanj · 16/06/2021 00:08

I teach my kids to hit back in self defence. If they get in trouble I vouch for them. The way I see it if schools were serious about no violence, then they would already have eradicated it on school grounds. They haven’t and so until then my kids learn martial arts, learn how to defend themselves properly, and get taught how to be confident enough not to take any shit.

Patapouf · 16/06/2021 00:14

It doesn't seem like it was hitting back in retaliation it was self defence if he was being restrained by his friend! I'd be okay with it and I'm super low tolerance on violence and aggression. I'd maybe have a chat about being 'friends' with people who hurt you though.

WorraLiberty · 16/06/2021 00:16

Violence isn't the "right answer" to anything!

That's so so wrong.

It's most definitely the right answer if for example you're fighting for your life and you can't get away without hitting/kicking/gouging someone's eyes for example to temporarily stop them in their tracks, so you can get away.

Would you ever tell a rape victim for example they were wrong to use violence to try and stop the attack?

As I said, it's difficult to advise but that's an awful message to send to anyone of any age that violence is never the answer.

Sadly sometimes it's all you've got left when being attacked.

Original poster

Hullabaloo9 · 16/06/2021 00:16

I'm so interested in what de escalate means in the hypothetical situation where you are either cornered or outnumbered and already being assaulted? Honestly, fatedestiny, what would you do in that situation?

OP posts:

FATEdestiny · 16/06/2021 00:17

@Hullabaloo9 as for what to do. I teach my own DS (15yo) to run away. Get away, as fast as you can. Then phone me.

If he is physically cornered and alone, what would I do in that situation? In no fighter. I'd curl up into a ball, protect my head and shake my mobile phone (which is emergency responce to call 999) and shout. I'd suggest he did the same. Hitting back and escalating an already very volatile situation is unlikey to improve the situation. He would get battered all the more.

You are giving a very, very extreme example there. I assume to justify your point that violence is sometimes ok. It is not. I've say on discipline committees for over 5 years, multiple per week in a school which is in a highly deprived area with a drug problem, low parental employment and literacy. I have seen most things, including knife crimes. I have never (not once) seen a situation as you describe. The perpitator would have been sniffed out much sooner and likely already on pathways to manage and minimise risk - such extreme victimisation you describe doesn't come from nowhere. And the children also learn not to get themselves into vulnerable situations with those sort of kids (which is an aspect of de-esculating)

WorraLiberty · 16/06/2021 00:21

As per my post above. The only reason bullying is on going is when it is not reported.

That's absolute bollocks in so many schools.

Some kids have been driven to suicide over being bullied when they and their parents have reported it time and time again - not just to the school but to police too.

I honestly can't believe anyone is that naive or that you don't even see these things reported in the news???

aurynne · 16/06/2021 00:21

I find it hard to believe that someone who supposedly runs courses on "de-escalation" can't even spell it properly.

Tossblanket · 16/06/2021 00:22

Violence isn't the "right answer" to anything!

This is such a crock of shit. It's normally proclaimed by someone who has never faced any sort of conflict or threat.

It's often the only answer to certain actions.

FATEdestiny · 16/06/2021 00:23

you lost me when you said...

I get that you're just looking for agreement that sometimes it's ok. You get that I don't agree. I'm not going to change my mind. Are you? If not, then it's not a case of I lost you anywhere, you just think sometime violence is ok. Lots of people agree with you. I don't. But that's ok.

At least you (maybe?) understand why I have my opinion on this. Even if you don't agree.

aurynne · 16/06/2021 00:24

Oh, and by the way, if someone hits me, I hit them back. That's how I managed to never be bullied in school (they tried). Unless it is a very small child or a person with intellectual disabilities, there is no way in hell I will allow anyone to hit me and get away with it. I see nothing wrong with "violence" when it is in response to someone being violent to you on purpose.

I have never, ever started a fight and will never do.

Original poster

Hullabaloo9 · 16/06/2021 00:32

@FATEdestiny I do indeed respect your opinion. I am glad for some opposing opinions and discussion, that is exactly why I posted.

I am intrigued though, what you would advise a child or teen who is cornered to do. Please, you must have an answer?

OP posts:

Kanitawa · 16/06/2021 00:32

YABU to think it’s ok for someone to hit you and not expect immediate retaliation. Yelling 3x is ridiculous, you could be seriously injured or dead by then. If someone hurts you, you make them stop immediately.

WorraLiberty · 16/06/2021 00:34

@FATEdestiny would you tell a rape victim that violence is never the answer and they should just give up and let it happen, rather than try with all their might to fight their attacker off?

FATEdestiny · 16/06/2021 00:35

[quote Hullabaloo9]@FATEdestiny I do indeed respect your opinion. I am glad for some opposing opinions and discussion, that is exactly why I posted.

I am intrigued though, what you would advise a child or teen who is cornered to do. Please, you must have an answer?[/quote]
Glad to hear it. I already answered that.

Tossblanket · 16/06/2021 00:39

I am intrigued though, what you would advise a child or teen who is cornered to do. Please, you must have an answer?

They did respond to this.

Something about curling up in a ball, protecting head and shaking phone which will alert police.

I honestly thought that was a joke, but I'm guessing it's not.

Quite mind boggling really that a person genuinely thinks that's a good idea.

WorraLiberty · 16/06/2021 00:41

@Tossblanket

I am intrigued though, what you would advise a child or teen who is cornered to do. Please, you must have an answer?

They did respond to this.

Something about curling up in a ball, protecting head and shaking phone which will alert police.

I honestly thought that was a joke, but I'm guessing it's not.

Quite mind boggling really that a person genuinely thinks that's a good idea.

They could be bloody dead or severely brain damaged by the time any help arrived.

Lancrelady80 · 16/06/2021 01:23

One thing that I have always hated is the way victims of bullying are treated by those supposed to help them. Showing them how to get in a safer position when being beaten up - they shouldn't be being beaten up! Teaching them to identify and change things that make them liable to being picked on - why should they have to change who and how they are in order to be safe? They're already upset and then are told they need to act in a way that is very unnatural/comfortable for them, and sends the message It's somehow their fault. Much like the argument that women shouldn't show legs or cleavage as it makes them more likely to be attacked and raped.

BlowMeDownWithAFeather · 16/06/2021 01:31

My son had one fight whilst at school. This other lad had been pestering my son for a while. My son got into a proper scrap, he came home fuming. He never had a problem after that. It is a hard line to draw.

aurynne · 16/06/2021 01:51

I broke the lip of the guy who had been harassing me and eventually hit me. So I hit him back straight on his big mouth. I am glad and proud I did, I hope it hurt for days and it healed badly. He never harassed me again, surprisingly.

A boy he also harassed didn't defend himself, he suffered for years and eventually had to leave the school after attempting suicide. I know what I would teach my children to do if I had them.

1forAll74 · 16/06/2021 02:36

I think it's only natural for children to hit back when being hurt by another child,, they are usually friends again after a little scrap at this age.. All this doesn't make them violent in the future, or mean that they come from a bad home, but they have to learn to defend themselves from little childish battles in the playground at this age.

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