To be irritated by the Londoner exodus to my town?

[thesecondnamegame]

I've been priced out of my Greater Manchester town by the London diaspora. Anybody who knows the area will know which town I mean. My tatty council town centre terrace is worth 300k. A load of Londoners came up after the BBC moved to Manchester. Half the kids in my kid's school's parents are from London and they love to make sure you know that. House prices have become ridiculous and are in a different world to the rest of Greater Manchester. It's ridiculous as it used to be a very unremarkable market town (albiet with not much to it) and now it's gone all 'naice' and I'm having to move 10 miles away because it's reaching the surrounding towns and I simply cannot afford to live here and I want to buy a property. It annoys me, I keep imagining somebody who had a London salary and bought a house in London, sold it, and came up here and bought a house 3 times bigger for the same price as their smaller London home. It just seems like they cheated. There are no school places either, because a lot of the Londoner's chose this particular town for the schools. The catchments are bloody tiny, I know somebody who lives in a village about 4 miles away. The schools in this town are the closest schools. No school would take her child and she ended up having to home educate for months.

All my relatives who bought properties or private rented have had to leave, even those who went to uni and got great jobs.

Right? One of the many reasons I will never, ever leave the beating heart of the M25 is that someone born a spit from Bow Bells is no more or less a Londoner than someone who moved here aged 8 from Somalia, or someone who moved here aged 30 from Krakow.

Not sure what your point is. Or do you think the North has no Somalis or Polish

This idea that London is the only multicultural place in the UK is really grating. Also that only Londoners live in "shoe boxes" and that only London has a shortage of affordable housing. I know social workers and teachers, and their families, living in 2 up 2 down victorian terraced housing designed for coal miners and mill workers in the 19th century. No garden. When council housing in the north was built, it copied this victorian design and so many council houses are terraced and tiny

London has higher wages. London has more funding per head of population, better and cheaper public transport. Higher rates of housing benefit

Just because housing in the north is cheaper, it doesn't mean there is more of it and it doesn't mean it is more affordable for northerners, who have much lower wages and many times more working class people

I then left London for a midlands village that turned out to be the single most insular and xenophobic place I'd ever lived (in several countries). We definitely weren't welcome, despite doing absolutely everything to integrate.

I grew up in a midlands village - M40 was built and slowly house prices have rocketed up and they never stop building - it's gone from a rural village to a suburb of nearby town.

I lived in cities for next decade than with children move to north of same county in a small town - no way we'd be able to afford anything near where I grew up - and found the same - the most insular and xenophobic place I've ever lived and we were never really made to feel welcome what ever we did.

DH was from another bit of midland - more northen bit but still midlands - we were white British midlanders but not from the town so not welcome and outsiders - really bloody odd but many on here say the same about the town.

We can't afford to live in city DH works in - prices are high and have been pushed higher by families exscaping London which given prices and cost of living I can understand. We've ened up just over border in Wales.

Welsh are lovely but there are huge concerns about house prices pushing locals out - because many like us working in nearby cities move here- and since we bought about 5 years ago our house has shot up to a price we couldn't afford to buy it now.

I don't know what the answer is - building over everything like where I grew up hasn't made house prices cheaper - but the problem gets pushed further and further out.

This idea that London is the only multicultural place in the UK is really grating.

While my childhood village was mainly/mostly white - the nearby town had huge Sikh and smaller muslim populations and quite a few other ethnic groups who I went to same secondary school with.

The rural midland town that we found very unwelcoming did also have an asian population - oddly though the schools seemed much more segregated than where I grew up - the whole community seemed much less visible.

And few talk about how people now live alone in properties which were designed for families which they didn't in the past, whilst families live in accommodation far too small for their needs.

Its an overlooked subject because its much easier to blame the nasty foreigners.

I know the OP is not colouring mancunians in glory here but Manchester is the most multilingual city in Western Europe - it has the most diverse range of languages spoken.
Where the OP lives is arguably the least diverse place in greater Manchester (and has always fancied itself Cheshire to be honest).
In general I wouldn’t be painting Manchester as a racist backwater!

@RedToothBrush Very true. So many more people choose to stay single these days and live in 3/4 bedroom houses. Their choice completely but there is only so much land to build on.

I feel like the irony of the OP suggesting this equity tax is that depending what criteria you used lots of people in the south Manchester area would be subject to it.
My house value in greater Manchester has risen by 40% in 3 years.
My in-laws south Manchester property sold for £250k more than they bought it for 20 years ago.
Shouldn’t we be subject to the Op’s equity tax?

I have already said on the thread I’m interested in moving from Manchester to Lancashire to get a bigger detached house for my money. Shouldn’t I face tax just like a ‘Londoner’ ?

It’s interesting as well as of the people I know who live in London the ones who were born there live in a multigenerational household where no one can afford to move out and have long public transport commutes, the ones I know who own a naice flat and have media jobs are originally from Leeds 😂

I'm from Northamptonshire but have lived in London for 24 years. I'm thinking about moving back. I've been a Londoner for 24 years and DD is a born Londoner. So where do we fit in OPs definition? Yes I could afford a bigger home near my birthplace. But the natural order of things in London is work, party, meet someone, have kids, move to something with a small garden. I can afford that back home. I'd have friends and family nearby. I can't see why people have an issue.

YABVU.

You loan about how the North has been left to wither away with no good job prospects etc. And everything is London centric.

Then government then do something about it by starting with the BBC move up north to bridge the divide and now your complaining.

You will never be happy.

What did you expect? There was time London was like Manchester and affordable then the businesses and jobs came and house prices crept up.

Now businesses are being built up north and your not happy cos with that means house prices going up as lore people compete for houses.

You will never be happy, the government will never be able to 'wins. Damned if they do damned if they dont

Not sure what your point is. Or do you think the North has no Somalis or Polish

No one has suggested that, have they? Only that the Londoner identity is wonderfully open and welcoming. You don’t need to have been born here, or grown up here, or have the right accent to be accepted as a Londoner, in a way that I’m not sure is true for many places in the world, where regional and local identity can feel more exclusive.

Greater Manchester voted leave

Sorry, I got the names the wrong way round.

To be fair though, as a South Londoner I’m only vaguely aware of the existence of Barnet!

I think it’s still fair to say that there are plenty of leave voters in London and plenty of remain voters north of Watford.

And few talk about how people now live alone in properties which were designed for families which they didn't in the past, whilst families live in accommodation far too small for their needs.

I think the problem many of our older relatives have found when looking at downsizing - the lack of living space downstairs at time of life they've found they they spend more time in the house and lack of incentives once you take all costs into acount it often doesn't free up as much money as you'd expect. Plus older they get the more daunting moving looks.

Though my family in 3 bed terrace house they raise they're families in rather than some of the much bigger houses out there. Our first house 3 bed semi - there were only a few families in the road most of rest of the houses had older couples or single usually older people.

Current house is 4 bed semi - hopefully when kids have finished school and hopefully moved out we can buy smaller but closer to work property or if we move for work we can afford to live and work in a more expensive part of the UK.

I think it’s still fair to say that there are plenty of leave voters in London and plenty of remain voters north of Watford.

Yes though I think the largest geographic correlation in terms of the Brexit vote was between cities/not cities rather than regionally.

Yes though I think the largest geographic correlation in terms of the Brexit vote was between cities/not cities rather than regionally.

I think that is probably true, and also explains why there would be a disparity between attitudes to ‘incomers’ in the cities where people find work and attitudes to ‘incomers’ in he surrounding towns and villages where those people might want to live.

In London too there is a political gap between London itself and the surrounding shires.

No one has suggested that, have they? Only that the Londoner identity is wonderfully open and welcoming. You don’t need to have been born here, or grown up here, or have the right accent to be accepted as a Londoner, in a way that I’m not sure is true for many places in the world, where regional and local identity can feel more exclusive.

You could say the same about Birmingham, Manchester or Leeds though. Infact Birmingham is more multi ethnic than London.

It's this idea that London is somehow different or special compared to other urban conurbations and more overcrowded. It isn't. The M62 is just the M25 stretched out in a line instead of a circle.

Yes though I think the largest geographic correlation in terms of the Brexit vote was between cities/not cities rather than regionally.

Most city's in the north voted leave. In the midlands, Birmingham, the UKs 2nd city, also voted leave

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_city_of_the_United_Kingdom

How do you decide which city is a second city? It seems to change depending on the point being made.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_city_of_the_United_Kingdom

How do you decide which city is a second city? It seems to change depending on the point being made.

By the actual city, not the county (for exmaple GM is a county not a city) or city region. Birmingham is the 2nd city, after London, by population and has been for a long time

I know the OP is not colouring mancunians in glory here

Can we just be clear that the OP is one person airing personal views. Please don't assume everyone who lives in Manchester is as small minded. Many people who live in Greater Manchester weren't born and raised there. Professional people buying housing and creating house price rises, and the ripple effect moving people out to cheaper areas, has been happening for decades before the BBC relocated

Just as hopefully most people are smart enough to know that just because one person who moved up from London is making insensitive comments about how much money they've saved moving north, it doesn't mean that all 'Londoners' are the same .

In my lifetime Birmighmans always been referred to as the second city.

I've never encountered any confusion about that - though usually it's said Birmingham the second city in UK media - so not much room for confusion there.

It's an industrial city - so before industrial revolution it wasn't actually that big which again I though was fairly well known also -its supposed to have more canals than Venice.

Most city's in the north voted leave. In the midlands, Birmingham, the UKs 2nd city, also voted leave.

I think Birmingham was the one of the most marginal on Brexit in the country?

Of the big northern cities, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds all voted remain - Manchester stronger than London, I think? Though different picture in Greater Manchester.

Birmingham is the 2nd city, after London, by population and has been for a long time

And the relevance of this is that Birmingham is more important than other cities? If it is, then Leave only won by a margin of 3,800 votes, so it seems the split was pretty even.

(Pretty sure I googled correctly this time.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36616108)

If there is nothing different or special about London, by default there must be plenty of people living outside London who have a similar outlook.

You could say the same about Birmingham, Manchester or Leeds though. Infact Birmingham is more multi ethnic than London.

It's this idea that London is somehow different or special compared to other urban conurbations and more overcrowded. It isn't. The M62 is just the M25 stretched out in a line instead of a circle.

That’s interesting - friends of mine who live in Leeds and Birmingham don’t have that sense of being included/belonging in the city’s identity at all - or at least not nearly so easily (the latter in Leeds). They say they wouldn’t feel nearly so confident in saying they were ‘from’ those cities rather than living in them - and quite different to their experience of how included and embraced as locals they felt living in London.

I’m not sure why multi-ethnic is relevant, really, to questions of local identity?

I think though that’s something around the idea that the majority of people in London come from somewhere else - whether that’s elsewhere in the UK or another country - to a degree that you only get in a handful of global cities. So the idea of local identity is quite different to those places where you have a larger part of the population who are ‘local’ for want of a better word.