To be irritated by the Londoner exodus to my town?

[thesecondnamegame]

I've been priced out of my Greater Manchester town by the London diaspora. Anybody who knows the area will know which town I mean. My tatty council town centre terrace is worth 300k. A load of Londoners came up after the BBC moved to Manchester. Half the kids in my kid's school's parents are from London and they love to make sure you know that. House prices have become ridiculous and are in a different world to the rest of Greater Manchester. It's ridiculous as it used to be a very unremarkable market town (albiet with not much to it) and now it's gone all 'naice' and I'm having to move 10 miles away because it's reaching the surrounding towns and I simply cannot afford to live here and I want to buy a property. It annoys me, I keep imagining somebody who had a London salary and bought a house in London, sold it, and came up here and bought a house 3 times bigger for the same price as their smaller London home. It just seems like they cheated. There are no school places either, because a lot of the Londoner's chose this particular town for the schools. The catchments are bloody tiny, I know somebody who lives in a village about 4 miles away. The schools in this town are the closest schools. No school would take her child and she ended up having to home educate for months.

All my relatives who bought properties or private rented have had to leave, even those who went to uni and got great jobs.

I don’t think generalisations are that helpful. If ‘remainers’ see themselves as outward looking progressives, Greater Manchester voted 60% remain, slightly higher than the overall figure for London.

I doubt these were all sound engineers born in Chiswick commuting to Salford to work on Blue Peter.

Just to remind you....council houses were sold off to rid tax payers of the maintenance costs of old housing stock.

Do you seriously believe this?

It was political! The Tories don't believe in social housing.

Councils were prevented from reinvesting the money from sales in new housing.

Everyone who lives in council houses pays rent. Managed properly, council housing doesn't need to be a burden on the state.

Currently, the state pays out a huge whack of money to private landlords. That money would stay in the system, for a start.

@magicflange I know exactly who you're talking about and I agree, it's just so difficult to police.

If the council are getting their council tax paid, are they realistically going to spend the money taking people to court to try and prove non residence when the liable person can just say they've stayed a night or two?

Currently, the state pays out a huge whack of money to private landlords

Many of whom presumably bought ex council houses and have to factor in the cost of maintaining old housing stock in their rent charges.

The

(Strike out that last ‘the’!)

I'm also sure that companies who landbank and then develop over time when market conditions were right would also have something to say

I'm sure they would too but tough shit. There is planning already granted for > 1m homes which is land banked, meanwhile local councils are overruled to allocated yet more land for new builds even where there are existing plans unbuilt in the area.

This is nothing to do with C19 or temporary market conditions, its the same issue that causes entire apartment blocks to sit empty - land is seen as an investment opportunity in its own right and the needs of local people for housing don't come into it.

@merrymouse

Currently, the state pays out a huge whack of money to private landlords

Many of whom presumably bought ex council houses and have to factor in the cost of maintaining old housing stock in their rent charges.

The

WTF are you on about?

I own an ex council house. Most of the houses on this estate are now owner occupied or rented at extortionate prices to people who would really benefit from a social housing programme.

The maintenance costs are no different to my previous property, a flat in a Victorian conversion. In fact I was more worried about that one long term than this, maintenance wise.

Goodness people believe some bullshit.

Am I "a Londoner"? I've been here for 15 years, but I moved here as an adult. You won't drag me back to where I was born and its cheap property without wild horses, tho. I moved here - as anyone is free to do - and lived in a houseshare and worked my way up to that London salary, as did DH.
Exactly my and DP's position too. And I'd wager a very common one.

Personally, one of my favourite things about this fucking city is that anyone who pays council tax here and knows to stand on the right is a Londoner.

Well said. I don't generally think of Manchester, or any UK city, as being parochial, but I have to say this OP is not doing her manor any favours.

WTF are you on about?

Landlords who buy ex council property and then rent to tenants in receipt of housing benefit.

I assume you misread my post. You seem to be suggesting that I am insulting people who live in ex council housing.

The point I am making is that all housing needs to be maintained and the government will still (in theory) be paying for the maintenance of old council housing stock through benefits.

Flats in Victorian conversions are also let to tenants in receipt of housing benefit and also require maintenance.

Saw this thread last night but didn't have time to post, so sorry if this is really out of synch.

I don't really blame Londoners, or landlords. I blame our current government and previous ones. They have been very neglectful when this issue has been staring them in the face for years. Many of them own multiple properties and have an interest in keeping property prices high. A lot of the voting population are homeowners and are unaware of this issue. They are happy sitting on an asset which is skyrocketing in value year on year, so in their eyes it isn't a problem and will continue to vote for a government who won't change the situation.

My mum has her house but a small pension, so isn't willing to move from her three bed house to a retirement flat as she is scared of the monthly costs when retirement properties have a management team, so she stays put as it's an uncertainty. She would probably get a lump sum from her sale, but you can't predict how long you will live and how long it would last. That doesn't help the situation either as we have single people in houses families should be in and vice-versa.

I honestly think the only way to stop this madness is for people to not pay their rent and then it would be both landlords and tenants that are pissed off. I like my landlord and wouldn't do it personally, but I bet plenty of people would. I would rather a more peaceful solution than that though to be honest! Even if we had the most amazing solution to this housing crisis staring us in the face, I still doubt our current government would take it. So for now it is trying to save as the buying power of my wages deflates, rents increase and house prices continue to skyrocket. I live in an apartment complex by the sea, and so many of these flats have nobody in them, or only someone in them a few weeks of the year. It's totally nuts.

They're just people deciding to live somewhere cheaper. Most Londoners don't have a mil for a two bed flat either

@IntermittentParps

Am I "a Londoner"? I've been here for 15 years, but I moved here as an adult. You won't drag me back to where I was born and its cheap property without wild horses, tho. I moved here - as anyone is free to do - and lived in a houseshare and worked my way up to that London salary, as did DH. Exactly my and DP's position too. And I'd wager a very common one.

Personally, one of my favourite things about this fucking city is that anyone who pays council tax here and knows to stand on the right is a Londoner.

Well said. I don't generally think of Manchester, or any UK city, as being parochial, but I have to say this OP is not doing her manor any favours.

Right? One of the many reasons I will never, ever leave the beating heart of the M25 is that someone born a spit from Bow Bells is no more or less a Londoner than someone who moved here aged 8 from Somalia, or someone who moved here aged 30 from Krakow.

But Londoners are so unfriendly compared to those lovely Northerners who know what's really important. Innit.

I love the way London brags about being the most ethnically diverse UK city, when it's actually Birmingham

Is it? I visit Birmingham regularly now but had never been there more than once until about 2012 and have never lived there. London is my home city.

So on that basis, my impression is that Birmingham might have the nose on London for “non-white” residents, but that an overwhelming majority of the non-white community in Birmingham is Asian, mainly Muslim, with a large British-carribean minority also very obvious to an outsider.

So that might give a higher percentage of the Birmingham population who are “BAME” than in London, (I really don’t know, London’s “BAME” - hate that term- % is also high) but I doubt it is such a diverse diversity as London’s IYSWIM? Not saying either is better than the other. I can just see why the dispute might crop up.

One thing, that did strike me, driving and wandering through Brum, is the way different areas seem strongly segregated on ethnic and class lines. Whole suburbs seem to “belong” to a particular demographic. It made me wonder if London or NYC used to feel like that before the lines blurred more.

Right? One of the many reasons I will never, ever leave the beating heart of the M25 is that someone born a spit from Bow Bells is no more or less a Londoner than someone who moved here aged 8 from Somalia, or someone who moved here aged 30 from Krakow.

But Londoners are so unfriendly compared to those lovely Northerners who know what's really important. Innit.

If everywhere was as welcoming as London and Londoners, we wouldn’t have a lot of these problems.

Right? One of the many reasons I will never, ever leave the beating heart of the M25 is that someone born a spit from Bow Bells is no more or less a Londoner than someone who moved here aged 8 from Somalia, or someone who moved here aged 30 from Krakow.

But Londoners are so unfriendly compared to those lovely Northerners who know what's really important. Innit.

A thousand times this. I’m an immigrant who came to this country in my 20s and I’ve only ever lived in London here. I love that I’m embraced as a Londoner even though I’m not English, not British, and an immigrant.

Londoners might not spend as much time on pleasantries and chit chat with strangers, but I’ve encountered both many random kindnesses and true depth of friendship since moving here.

We have no family ties here and could probably find jobs in other parts of the country, but the double whammy of being both an immigrant and a dreaded Londoner (another who scraped and saved for that initial shoebox) does make me worry that we wouldn’t be welcome.

But Londoners are so unfriendly compared to those lovely Northerners who know what's really important. Innit. I know, ironic, isn't it. I've lived in a smallish, mixed-fortunes market town, a shithole English village in an economically depressed area, Glasgow (which I love) and London, and I've never felt so much friendliness, community and 'anything goes' acceptance as I do in the Smoke.

@JassyRadlett

Right? One of the many reasons I will never, ever leave the beating heart of the M25 is that someone born a spit from Bow Bells is no more or less a Londoner than someone who moved here aged 8 from Somalia, or someone who moved here aged 30 from Krakow.

But Londoners are so unfriendly compared to those lovely Northerners who know what's really important. Innit.

A thousand times this. I’m an immigrant who came to this country in my 20s and I’ve only ever lived in London here. I love that I’m embraced as a Londoner even though I’m not English, not British, and an immigrant.

Londoners might not spend as much time on pleasantries and chit chat with strangers, but I’ve encountered both many random kindnesses and true depth of friendship since moving here.

We have no family ties here and could probably find jobs in other parts of the country, but the double whammy of being both an immigrant and a dreaded Londoner (another who scraped and saved for that initial shoebox) does make me worry that we wouldn’t be welcome.

That reflects my experience in London as a resident foreigner, and I felt very much a Londoner after ten years -- but alas, I then left London for a midlands village that turned out to be the single most insular and xenophobic place I'd ever lived (in several countries). We definitely weren't welcome, despite doing absolutely everything to integrate, and, unfortunately, after spending most of my adult life living in England, it soured my memories of the country, and we left. I remain nostalgic for, and deeply fond of London.

Greater Manchester voted 60% remain, slightly higher than the overall figure for London

Greater Manchester voted leave.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't understand that
Greater Manchester (population 2.8 million) is a county
Manchester (population 553,000) is a city

Of Greater Manchesters 10 boroughs, 7 voted leave

Most city's in the north voted leave, and all 6 Metropolitan counnty's in the north voted leave.

Nowhere near. Even if you exclude principalities & islands, we're a long way behind places like The Netherlands (525 people/sq km) & Belgium (367/sq km) and roughly in line with Germany (232/sq km for Germany v 260/sq km for the UK).

England has a population density of 432 per sq km

(2019 statista)

Manchester?
From London?

Shudder

Don’t worry Op
They’ll be back I reckon soon enough

* Right? One of the many reasons I will never, ever leave the beating heart of the M25 is that someone born a spit from Bow Bells is no more or less a Londoner than someone who moved here aged 8 from Somalia, or someone who moved here aged 30 from Krakow.*

So so true.

My NCT group in London. I was the ONLY one with a British passport.

And that included my husband!

@magicflange

The just isn't enough hosting stock to GLA around. I also think something that contributes to the issue is the British obsession of own a house rather than a flat. If we built blocks of flats with balconies and lovely communal gardens surely this would be a great alternative. I live in a flat and we have a great community in our building.

Balconies, nice communal gardens and DECENT SOUNDPROOFING BETWEEN FLATS!!!! This rant brought to you by memories of my previous upstairs neighbour who had a pre-school aged kid who used to runaround in their shoes on laminate flooring incessantly.

Londoner born and bred. Can't afford to buy where I grew up or indeed anywhere remotely close so am currently compromising. I don't blame the people coming from outside London to live and work here (be they from Manchester, Austria, Brazil, Pakistan, Somalia, China, Poland, Wales etc etc). In fact they are what I love about London. I love hearing about their cultures and I love the improvement to British cuisine. In my child's school he's in the minority as white and British and it has only been a positive experience for him.

I do think something needs to be done about property investors and housing costs in general. But owning a high value property is meaningless for most families when you just need it to be your home. Very many Londoners don't have the intention of releasing that value and using it elsewhere in the country.... Except perhaps those who started out elsewhere in the country and are retreating back to be closer to their family?