I know DD is in the wrong, but should children have to put up with this?

[ObviousNameChage]

DD got in trouble at school. I have no issues with the consequences she got and we had a very stern chat at home. For background she's never in trouble and described as a shy,quiet ,polite child so this is not the norm for her.


What happened was that some of her classmates were laughing and making comment that their teacher smells really bad, has sweat stains,you get the gist. DD said "I know , it makes me feel sick". Teacher overheard this and obviously all of the girls are in trouble, got a bollocking from her and also the head . They have to write apology letters and will miss play next week. We also had a talk at home about making comments,hurting people's feelings ,what's acceptable and what isn't etc.

The issue is, the teacher does actually smell quite bad, especially now in the heat, so many bodies in a sunny classroom etc. It is slightly noticeable at pick up and I'm not even that close. DD really doesn't like it and the smell (smells do in general she even recoils from me and her dad if we're smelly) does bother her. I do believe she made an honest statement , but still hurtful and as such she needs to deal with the consequences.She can't avoid it as there's group work,reading ,having chats, teacher coming over for help and so on.

It's such an awkward and difficult situation and the poor teacher must be mortified. However, at some level I also feel for the kids that have to put up with is for several hours a day and have no choice or option to "escape" from it.

If I say anything to the school I'll sound like a dick myself, the teacher will probably feel even worse and I don't think anyone can really do anything about it. At the same time I don't think it's ok for the children to just shut up and put up with it.

[cupsofcoffee]

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

I feel really sorry for the kids. BO can be horrific to have to endure day in-day out.

I’m very concerned about the comment that you should teach your daughter not to recoil from embraces when she is uncomfortable. This is such a dangerous precedent to set. Children should be able to deny physical contact if they are not happy with it. Never teach your children that an adult’s feelings matter more than their personal comfort regarding physical contact.

That's not what my comment said AT ALL.

OP didn't suggest there was anything physical occurring - she said her DD recoiled when the teacher was nearby because the smell was offensive. That's not the same as inappropriate physical contact and I do think it's really offensive that people are trying to compare the two.

Of course being around someone with bad BO is unpleasant but to compare it someone being sexually abusive or inappropriate is totally not okay.

[cupsofcoffee]

@mam0918

This thread is digustingly full of abalism - its highly unlikely this teacher just doesnt wash, its been pointed out many time what OP discribed is common with health conditions.

People suggesting this woman should have invasive medical proceedures or not be allowed to work because other people feel uncomfortable at her condition - apply that to litrally any other medical condition and see if you think its acceptible.

After the people getting overly sensative at the wheelchair user post yesterday this really shows a lot of double standard towards different types of medical condition.

Also people saying its unlikely she has it she probably just doesnt wash, combined the condition that can lead to BO effect multi-millions of people, people who look and act completely normal because they are INVISABLE disabilities... its REALLY not a streach to assume its medical, its actually more of a streach to assume a put together, hard working, educated proffesional who works with children just doesnt know basic hygene.

Absolutely this.

If it's not an obvious disability, it's apparently okay to recoil from people, laugh at them behind their backs and even encourage them to quit their jobs as a result of it.

[ObviousNameChage]

@cupsofcoffee actually I said DD recoils from me and her dad when we are smelly. Just to show she does have an issue with smells .

[Cottonheadedninymuggins]

@Nocutenamesleft

I have incredibly severe Hyperhidrosis. It’s weird though as mine is on my face and head. So doesn’t smell. But I know how bad it is. How awful it looks.

I read that you had a stern word with her. As someone who deals with this daily. I don’t know of a nice way of putting it which will make you not look bad

I do actually understand what you’re saying. I know how bad mines gets.

I would write a letter to the school saying that you understand the punishment. But that your daughter does find it hard. I get it that if I was pouring with sweat onto someone that it wouldn’t be nice for that person. I’m one of those overly sweaty people!

Just word it in a way that explains how uncomfortable your daughter is with it. If it works. Great.

Snap! :) Always 'nice' (ha!) to find a fellow sufferer out in the world.

It is horrendous isn't it. Mine is my entire body but my worst is my face and scalp because I can't hide it.

Like you it doesn't smell around the face but I am also incredibly anal about changing clothes/showering as soon as I get in and in the house I live in pyjamas (when coming in from somewhere I immediately shower and put clean pyjamas on) for sheer comfort and clothes are washed each time I wear them. As a carer for a relative I live with, I don't have to wear clothes out to work for hours without the ability to freshen up so that makes it easier too.

It's never nice to - all year round so even in winter/spring/autumn - be so hot that you're literally dripping with sweat and bright red and flushed and attention brought to it makes it even worse.

( @Nocutenamesleft have you tried medication? I've had oxybutynin which changed my life but sadly became immune to it after 18m. Glyco Bromide did nothing and probanthaine is a bit hit and miss and has a LOT of side effects IMO which makes it just as bad sadly)

I feel your - and the teachers - pain.

[purpleme12]

Well if I was that teacher and someone said that it would make me pretty paranoid...
I'd predict she'll be more careful about deodorants/washing and whatever now...

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

@cupsofcoffee

You’re still expecting a child to ignore their own feelings of discomfort and their natural reaction to prioritise an adult’s.
Recoiling is a natural instinct.
The teacher smells. It is impeding the children’s ability to learn. That needs addressing.

[CutieBear]

I remember having a secondary school teacher who had horrific BO. I actually struggled to concentrate because the stench made me sick. Everyone in the class was repulsed. We didn’t say anything though. I wish someone in that teacher’s life told them (in a kind way).

[WrongWrhododendron]

Holy Joe ... she'll need to get a grip before she gets to year 5/6!! Have you smelt a Year 6 classroom in July? 😱😱

[alexdgr8]

i can see both sides here.
but really i think your daughter will have to get used to enduring these kids of things as she progresses through life.
there are many situations, jobs where it would be impossible to change how other people are/present.
in an office say, with regular workforce it may be possible to say something, although whether/how/ who still remains.
i worked with someone who was slightly disabled and she did smell bad. no one said anything. i doubt it was to do with her slight disability.
she tended to wear formal dresses, of thick material, which probably couldn't be washed, had to be dry-cleaned. and that didn't happen often. a few years later she was wearing lighter, more casual, washable clothes, and we didn't notice the odour problem.
i did try to say wasn't it expensive having to dry clean those heavy dresses, but she didn't take the hint, just said no they don't need often to be dry-cleaned. so i couldn't say anymore.
but in some situations, eg as a social worker, police officer, any job where you are encountering lots of people indoors but one-offs.
there may be all sorts of unpleasant smells, smokiness etc.
you just have to bear it. if not, it severely restricts what job you can do.
eg,advisor, solicitor, accountant, shop work, careworker, nurse, doctor, therapist, lecturer, librarian,etc..
you can't tell everyone who walks in/ consults you to address their BO.
it is not appropriate or relevant.
so a little practice at hardening up now may be of benefit.

[TheRebelle]

I’ve got an incredibly sensitive sense of smell and I would find being stuck in a classroom with BO all day every day really difficult to deal with, it may be that it’s a medical problem or it may not but we don’t exist in a vacuum, if it’s a medical problem then she should take steps to stop it affecting everyone around her like acknowledging it to the children, changing often and opening windows. You can’t just say well I’ve got a medical problem that gives me BO so you all have to put up with it all day every day for the next year.

OP if the teacher does regularly smell unpleasant then her manager will already be aware so if you do choose to bring it up they won’t think you’re just making it up because your daughter got in trouble, but it may give them the push they need to discuss it with the teacher. Then If it’s a medical condition (and it’s a big if) they can work on putting something in place to reduce the impact or communicating with the children so she doesn’t overhear them talking about her again.

[Iminaglasscaseofemotion]

@cupsofcoffee

Is it? Why?

Because it's rude? There are medical conditions that make people sweat a lot and that make them smell. Not everyone can help it. *@Iminaglasscaseofemotion*

you prefer she made her daughter sit closely feeling sick and unable to do anything about it?

Vaguely recoiling away won't get rid of the smell, though. But it will make the person in question feel awful about themselves. Like I said above, some people have medical conditions that cause issues with sweat/smell - why should those people be subject to bullying and nasty comments as a result?

Don't be ridiculous. It's her family. When Mt do comes home from football or work and tries to give me a hug when he's stinks I sure as hell tell him to get in for a wash before he comes near me. I put up with it with my 13 year old ds but I still tell him to get for a wash because he smells. I say it in a jokey way, but I should be able to tell them when they stink, and they can tell me.
I grew up not being able to say anything like that to my parents because it was "rude". If the person doesn't have a condition, and they just smell because they haven't washed, and you are a close family member or even close friend, then it's fine to tell them.

[TatianaBis]

@cupsofcoffee

You haven’t addressed a key issue: if you tell children it’s unacceptable to discuss things about their teachers they don’t like, what happens with a sexually inappropriate teacher?

I didn't say it was unacceptable to discuss things, but there is a time and a place. There's also a HUGE difference between laughing at someone who has BO (I know OP's DD wasn't the one laughing, but the group was giggling) and discussing inappropriate sexual contact. I actually think it's pretty offensive to try and compare the two situations.

You’ve missed the point completely: a child who is told it’s rude and unacceptable to voice disgust with a teacher’s smell may be dissuaded from voicing issues around other more serous issues.

You can act offended all you like but I’ve been in a school where students didn’t speak out for fear of offending people over much more serious things than smell. If you’re shut down on a minor point, then major issues become even more taboo.

Children must be able to express themselves openly regarding interactions with adults.

[TatianaBis]

And what about children with sensory issues?There are children and adults who would not be able to function with an overpowering smell such as BO all day every day.

Quite. ASD spectrum people can have great sensitivity to smell. That’s as much a disability as excess sweating.

And assuming that this teacher has a disability rather than poor personal hygiene is a mahoosive assumption.

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

@TatianaBis
I completely agree.

[BertramLacey]

Other people bodies and their existance in the same space as you are NOT something you have any right to be uncomfortable over.

It is. Read that back to yourself. Last time I travelled by plane I was seated next to someone who was spilling over into my seat and who also smelled bad. I cannot know for sure but I doubt it was a medical condition. It seemed more like long periods of being unwashed. 15 minutes into the flight I realised that if I remained sitting next to him I would have a bad back by the end of the flight. I asked to be moved, since there were spare seats. I was unable to sit comfortably in my seat and the flight attendants were happy for me to move.

He may have been puzzled or offended. I don't know. I do know there was no reason for me to tolerate him being so close that he was causing me back pain. Children need to know they can assert themselves. They should not be rude of unpleasant but they have a right to their own boundaries.

[Mugsen]

I'm with the she was rude and and disrespectful and should be punished accordingly camp. It's nasty for them to club together like that.

[ObviousNameChage]

@Mugsen

I'm with the she was rude and and disrespectful and should be punished accordingly camp. It's nasty for them to club together like that.

She is having consequences at school and I'm ok with that.

Plus the talk at home.

Plus the worry and knowing she's upset a teacher she quite likes.


I never questioned the need for a consequence.

[Rainuntilseptember]

I wonder how much support there would be for a teacher who said they didn't want to teach your smelly child and were recoiling from them.

[Mulhollandmagoo]

@Rainuntilseptember

I wonder how much support there would be for a teacher who said they didn't want to teach your smelly child and were recoiling from them.

I imagine if a teacher brought this forward as a genuine problem, the parent of the child in question would be notified and asked to recifty the situation.

[ObviousNameChage]

@Rainuntilseptember

I wonder how much support there would be for a teacher who said they didn't want to teach your smelly child and were recoiling from them.

The teacher would have a few options to deal with this though.

It could be a safeguarding issue so refer it higher up. Or talk to their manager anyways in case the child/parents just need some support.

Talk to the parents.

Keep away/limit close contact with child.

Keep air freshener/perfume in the classroom. I know a few who do this.

They have control(less so with covid, must've been awful in winter) over open doors/windows.

[Lnix]

The smells in a classroom full of 9 year olds (or any primary age group for that matter, especially after lunch) would overpower even the smelliest of teachers 😅 Believe me!

[cansu]

FGS It is very hot. I am not sure what the teacher could do about her hot and sweaty body, other than take a shower and change which is presumably not easy to do at work in a primary school. The girls and your dd were being rude and were caught. Making this out to be something to do with the teacher's hygiene is really ridiculous and unfair. If you tried this on where I work, you would be given short shrift. Let's turn this round and imagine the teacher complained that your dd was sweaty and smelly at the end of a hot day. Would you think it was OK to make a fuss about this? Or would you no doubt think it was fairly normal after being in a hot classroom all day? The first thing I do when getting home is jump in the shower.

[a8mint]

Primary classrooms often hae a lot of glass amd are too overcrowded and there is insufficient ventilation.
Primary teaching is avery full on physical job. Teachers often dont have time to even time to go to the loo. I think at yhe end of the day on a heatwave beinga bit whiffy for certain people des not equate to a hygene issue

[Ozanj]

@ObviousNameChage

DD got in trouble at school. I have no issues with the consequences she got and we had a very stern chat at home. For background she's never in trouble and described as a shy,quiet ,polite child so this is not the norm for her.

What happened was that some of her classmates were laughing and making comment that their teacher smells really bad, has sweat stains,you get the gist. DD said "I know , it makes me feel sick". Teacher overheard this and obviously all of the girls are in trouble, got a bollocking from her and also the head . They have to write apology letters and will miss play next week. We also had a talk at home about making comments,hurting people's feelings ,what's acceptable and what isn't etc.

The issue is, the teacher does actually smell quite bad, especially now in the heat, so many bodies in a sunny classroom etc. It is slightly noticeable at pick up and I'm not even that close. DD really doesn't like it and the smell (smells do in general she even recoils from me and her dad if we're smelly) does bother her. I do believe she made an honest statement , but still hurtful and as such she needs to deal with the consequences.She can't avoid it as there's group work,reading ,having chats, teacher coming over for help and so on.

It's such an awkward and difficult situation and the poor teacher must be mortified. However, at some level I also feel for the kids that have to put up with is for several hours a day and have no choice or option to "escape" from it.

If I say anything to the school I'll sound like a dick myself, the teacher will probably feel even worse and I don't think anyone can really do anything about it. At the same time I don't think it's ok for the children to just shut up and put up with it.

A lot of girls in secondary stink of stale blood when they’re on their period because they don’t change enough; most in my experience. Yet if teachers or other students called your dd out on it in the same way your DD did to others I’m sure you’d be the first person to scream bullying

[5128gap]

You don't need to email the school yet. They will doubtless be well aware of the problem already, but given the sensitive nature probably have avoided raising it. The incident with the students gives the HT an in for the conversation which hopefully they will take. Wait a while and see if it improves.
I understand your DD feeling sick, smells do this to me too. It's also unreasonable of people to be so hard on her for saying this in what she thought was a conversation the teacher wouldn't hear. I can't believe those criticising her never say something they wouldn't say to someone's face.