I know DD is in the wrong, but should children have to put up with this?

[ObviousNameChage]

DD got in trouble at school. I have no issues with the consequences she got and we had a very stern chat at home. For background she's never in trouble and described as a shy,quiet ,polite child so this is not the norm for her.


What happened was that some of her classmates were laughing and making comment that their teacher smells really bad, has sweat stains,you get the gist. DD said "I know , it makes me feel sick". Teacher overheard this and obviously all of the girls are in trouble, got a bollocking from her and also the head . They have to write apology letters and will miss play next week. We also had a talk at home about making comments,hurting people's feelings ,what's acceptable and what isn't etc.

The issue is, the teacher does actually smell quite bad, especially now in the heat, so many bodies in a sunny classroom etc. It is slightly noticeable at pick up and I'm not even that close. DD really doesn't like it and the smell (smells do in general she even recoils from me and her dad if we're smelly) does bother her. I do believe she made an honest statement , but still hurtful and as such she needs to deal with the consequences.She can't avoid it as there's group work,reading ,having chats, teacher coming over for help and so on.

It's such an awkward and difficult situation and the poor teacher must be mortified. However, at some level I also feel for the kids that have to put up with is for several hours a day and have no choice or option to "escape" from it.

If I say anything to the school I'll sound like a dick myself, the teacher will probably feel even worse and I don't think anyone can really do anything about it. At the same time I don't think it's ok for the children to just shut up and put up with it.

[JediGnot]

@CaraherEIL

I would write to the head. I think your DD can write the letter of apology and needed to be spoken to about how inappropriate and hurtful the open discussion in the classroom was but I think the head needs to speak to the member of staff about their personal hygiene.

As OP seems to understand there are two entirely separate issues here. The first one has been dealt with properly... the second one needs addressing too - one of the hardest to address as well.

[TatianaBis]

OP may be happy with being told she smells, but she also needs to teach her DD what behaviour is acceptable at home that isn't acceptable at school or out in public.

It’s lockdown how can she discuss the issue with all her friends at home?

You haven’t addressed a key issue: if you tell children it’s unacceptable to discuss things about their teachers they don’t like, what happens with a sexually inappropriate teacher?

[1940s]

@0None0

Email the head and politely explain. I am a teacher. I lost my sense of smell due to covid. I have an arrangement with other staff to tell me if I smell, but that is only since I realised my sense of smell was missing. I don’t no how long it was before hand, but it took honesty from a good friend to make me realise

Did you used to smell prior to Covid? Did you drastically change your hygiene practices? I could lose my sense of smell tomorrow and I'd never need someone to tell me I smelled bad

[Georgyporky]

A child is being punished for telling the truth?

[RantyAnty]

I misunderstood and thought the children were opening laughing and making fun of her. So they weren't but the teacher was eavesdropping and overheard them so they got in trouble.

It isn't right to laugh and make fun of people so I would go with that in telling her it's not nice to make fun of people.

But, if someone stinks they do need to be told in a polite way.

I can't imagine this is the first time someone has mentioned she stinks. It's up to the school to work to eliminate the problem.

[ObviousNameChage]

As OP seems to understand there are two entirely separate issues here. The first one has been dealt with properly... the second one needs addressing too - one of the hardest to address as well.

And that's exactly why I posted on here. Not to make complaints or insult anyone or excuse DD's behaviour or make people with disabilities feel bad or all the other I've been accused of.

[ittakes2]

My son doesn't have aspergers but he is quite literal - I seem to be going against the grain but its likely the smell does make your daughter feel sick so she was just commenting a truth. If the teacher smells that bad than the other teachers would have noticed and an adult should have spoken to her. If she has a medical problem than it would be sensible to explain. They are 9 - not teens - its unlikely they have the vocabulary to express they are having this problem. Really its the school's fault in my opinion as the head should have spoken to the teacher before it became an ongoing issue for the kids.

[AlternativePerspective]

The only thing the children did wrong was to discuss it within earshot of the teacher.

Adults discuss other adults with their friends/colleagues all the time, it’s human nature. The difference is that adults have learned the tact to discuss somewhere more discrete.

The conversation which needs to be had with the DD is that sometimes other people are/do something which is out of the ordinary, but it’s important that you not talk about it where they can hear you because it can come across as unpleasant. But that doesn’t mean it’s wrong to notice it, after all if it’s true then you can’t just pretend that it isn’t.

And then I would write to the head and express that while your DD was wrong to talk about the teacher within earshot, she had previously mentioned to you, and you have personally noticed that she smells, and that it is something the head does need to be aware of because others are likely to discuss it not just within earshot, but amongst themselves/to their parents etc, and perhaps it is best the teacher is aware that these discussions are going on so that she can address it if possible, because the risk otherwise is that she is being talked about anyway.

[Charmtaste]

@ObviousNameChage what was the deodorant that you recommended to a colleague? I always stink even when scrubbing my armpits in the shower.

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

I feel really sorry for the kids. BO can be horrific to have to endure day in-day out.

I’m very concerned about the comment that you should teach your daughter not to recoil from embraces when she is uncomfortable. This is such a dangerous precedent to set. Children should be able to deny physical contact if they are not happy with it. Never teach your children that an adult’s feelings matter more than their personal comfort regarding physical contact.

[saltinesandcoffeecups]

[quote Charmtaste]@ObviousNameChage what was the deodorant that you recommended to a colleague? I always stink even when scrubbing my armpits in the shower.[/quote]
Make sure it’s not in your clothes, synthetic fibers are notorious for trapping odor forever. Even natural fibers will trap the smell, but not as bad in my experience.

Use real soap, not lotion soap, gels, etc. I like a good castille soap, smells good, gentle, but soap that actually scrubs away bacteria.

Find a good combo antiperspirant and deodorant, clinical strength and use according to directions, look for the ones that you put on at night.

[ObviousNameChage]

[quote Charmtaste]@ObviousNameChage what was the deodorant that you recommended to a colleague? I always stink even when scrubbing my armpits in the shower.[/quote]
Mitchum Deodorant. I use the men's and has to be the spray (roll on was shit) but my colleague bought women's and she got on well enough with it.

It's not magic, I'm still looking for better and longer lasting, but I can go through the work day with no embarrassment.

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Absolutely. I generally don’t smell but I do have a couple of tops that my husband calls my “BO blouses”. I’m guaranteed to smell by the end of the day if I wear them

[RosieLemonade]

I teach Year 5. And the classroom PONGS this time of year. I smother myself in perfume and Deodrant but their is deffo BO issues with the kids.

[saltinesandcoffeecups]

[quote AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]@saltinesandcoffeecups

Absolutely. I generally don’t smell but I do have a couple of tops that my husband calls my “BO blouses”. I’m guaranteed to smell by the end of the day if I wear them[/quote]
I’ve had to throw away more than one blouse after a deodorant fail. The worst are the ones that you don’t notice at first, but after a few hours into the day when it warms up. Blechhhh

[mam0918]

This thread is digustingly full of abalism - its highly unlikely this teacher just doesnt wash, its been pointed out many time what OP discribed is common with health conditions.

People suggesting this woman should have invasive medical proceedures or not be allowed to work because other people feel uncomfortable at her condition - apply that to litrally any other medical condition and see if you think its acceptible.

After the people getting overly sensative at the wheelchair user post yesterday this really shows a lot of double standard towards different types of medical condition.

Also people saying its unlikely she has it she probably just doesnt wash, combined the condition that can lead to BO effect multi-millions of people, people who look and act completely normal because they are INVISABLE disabilities... its REALLY not a streach to assume its medical, its actually more of a streach to assume a put together, hard working, educated proffesional who works with children just doesnt know basic hygene.

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

@mam0918

This thread is digustingly full of abalism - its highly unlikely this teacher just doesnt wash, its been pointed out many time what OP discribed is common with health conditions.

People suggesting this woman should have invasive medical proceedures or not be allowed to work because other people feel uncomfortable at her condition - apply that to litrally any other medical condition and see if you think its acceptible.

After the people getting overly sensative at the wheelchair user post yesterday this really shows a lot of double standard towards different types of medical condition.

Also people saying its unlikely she has it she probably just doesnt wash, combined the condition that can lead to BO effect multi-millions of people, people who look and act completely normal because they are INVISABLE disabilities... its REALLY not a streach to assume its medical, its actually more of a streach to assume a put together, hard working, educated proffesional who works with children just doesnt know basic hygene.

And what about children with sensory issues?
There are children and adults who would not be able to function with an overpowering smell such as BO all day every day.

[spotcheck]

I too agree with pp that the headteacher is lacking guts.

And I agree that the teacher should have taken on board what was said about her rather than running to her boss.
The head absolutely should have taken the opportunity to have a difficult conversation.

[Pixxie7]

It was obviously a very unkind comment and not dealt with at all well. However it is unlikely that her work mates haven’t noticed . There is pretty no need to do anything as she may do something herself, however it could also be a medical condition in which case she needs to try and get some help but deserves some sympathy.

[toocold54]

Wow I’m quite shocked that 9 year olds would be that rude. I teach secondary school and I’ve never come across such bitchy comments.
Now the teacher has been made aware I’m sure she will bring a spare top to change into but some days genuinely catch you off guard when they turn really hot or you’re having to rush around more than normal. So I would just teach your DD to be kind and if someone is smelling then they can say something to the teacher after class.

[Comefromaway]

Rest assured that your students ARE talking about any teachers or other kids who smell even if you don’t hear them.

[NumberTheory]

@mam0918

This thread is digustingly full of abalism - its highly unlikely this teacher just doesnt wash, its been pointed out many time what OP discribed is common with health conditions.

People suggesting this woman should have invasive medical proceedures or not be allowed to work because other people feel uncomfortable at her condition - apply that to litrally any other medical condition and see if you think its acceptible.

After the people getting overly sensative at the wheelchair user post yesterday this really shows a lot of double standard towards different types of medical condition.

Also people saying its unlikely she has it she probably just doesnt wash, combined the condition that can lead to BO effect multi-millions of people, people who look and act completely normal because they are INVISABLE disabilities... its REALLY not a streach to assume its medical, its actually more of a streach to assume a put together, hard working, educated proffesional who works with children just doesnt know basic hygene.

I don't think it's a matter of people "being uncomfortable" it's a matter of 30 children a year, every year, having their classroom environment be unpleasant which will detract from their concentration, their learning and, to some small degree, their lifelong attitude to education. That's not really acceptable and needs mitigating.

And having managed professional staff I don't think it's more of a stretch to think there's a strong likelihood that she just doesn't realise how badly she smells. I've had that conversation with 4 different professionals I've managed and they have all sorted it out with better hygiene.

[ObviousNameChage]

@toocold54

Wow I’m quite shocked that 9 year olds would be that rude. I teach secondary school and I’ve never come across such bitchy comments.
Now the teacher has been made aware I’m sure she will bring a spare top to change into but some days genuinely catch you off guard when they turn really hot or you’re having to rush around more than normal. So I would just teach your DD to be kind and if someone is smelling then they can say something to the teacher after class.

Where do you teach? I have friends that work in primaries and they were told a lot worse and to their face too. Even got threats. They'd love a job at your school.

[cupsofcoffee]

You haven’t addressed a key issue: if you tell children it’s unacceptable to discuss things about their teachers they don’t like, what happens with a sexually inappropriate teacher?

I didn't say it was unacceptable to discuss things, but there is a time and a place. There's also a HUGE difference between laughing at someone who has BO (I know OP's DD wasn't the one laughing, but the group was giggling) and discussing inappropriate sexual contact. I actually think it's pretty offensive to try and compare the two situations.

[Cottonheadedninymuggins]

@BertramLacey

Why haven't you taught her it's unacceptable to 'recoil' from you when you smell?

Recoiling is an instinctive reaction in some situations. If someone smelling that badly was near me I'd show some reaction. I don't think it's a good idea to teach children to dampen down reactions which might be useful to them. Smells are invasive. Essentially you'd just be teaching her to put up with something invading her personal space without reacting to it. That's not healthy. Of course she needs to be sensitive to the needs of others but not to the detriment of her own needs.

I agree. I have a sensitive retch reaction.

Recoiling is a damn sight acceptable than my audible, visible and completely involuntary dry heaving after a smell has hit the back of my throat in a particular way.