I know DD is in the wrong, but should children have to put up with this?

[ObviousNameChage]

DD got in trouble at school. I have no issues with the consequences she got and we had a very stern chat at home. For background she's never in trouble and described as a shy,quiet ,polite child so this is not the norm for her.


What happened was that some of her classmates were laughing and making comment that their teacher smells really bad, has sweat stains,you get the gist. DD said "I know , it makes me feel sick". Teacher overheard this and obviously all of the girls are in trouble, got a bollocking from her and also the head . They have to write apology letters and will miss play next week. We also had a talk at home about making comments,hurting people's feelings ,what's acceptable and what isn't etc.

The issue is, the teacher does actually smell quite bad, especially now in the heat, so many bodies in a sunny classroom etc. It is slightly noticeable at pick up and I'm not even that close. DD really doesn't like it and the smell (smells do in general she even recoils from me and her dad if we're smelly) does bother her. I do believe she made an honest statement , but still hurtful and as such she needs to deal with the consequences.She can't avoid it as there's group work,reading ,having chats, teacher coming over for help and so on.

It's such an awkward and difficult situation and the poor teacher must be mortified. However, at some level I also feel for the kids that have to put up with is for several hours a day and have no choice or option to "escape" from it.

If I say anything to the school I'll sound like a dick myself, the teacher will probably feel even worse and I don't think anyone can really do anything about it. At the same time I don't think it's ok for the children to just shut up and put up with it.

[cupsofcoffee]

@Iwonder08

Ffs, the girl didn't say anything directly to the teacher. It is the teacher who is in the wrong, anyone who is dealing with people on a regular basis should take extra care of body odours. How awful it must be to be stuck in a classroom with a person who stinks. It could indeed make the girl feel sick.

What if the teacher is suffering from a medical condition? Should she just have to put up with horrible comments?

[me4real]

@cupsofcoffee Most people it's just they aren't washing/applying stuff enough for themselves in the heat. Even with medical conditions there are often different things they can do. Obviously in the rare event there's some medical reason they can't do anything about, that's different. But usually it's not, it's that someone isn't doing something that they could.

[TatianaBis]

@cupsofcoffee

Why is it unacceptable?!

Because it's bloody rude, that's why.

How odd of you to think it’s appropriate for a child to hide that they feel uncomfortable!

There are more appropriate ways to show your discomfort than physically recoiling from people, though. This girl is 9 years old - she's more than old enough to understand that her behaviour isn't very nice.

Would you think it appropriate to physically recoil from someone who smelt due to illness, for example?

At my school no-one reported a couple of male teachers for being inappropriate because it would have seemed “bloody rude” and “unacceptable”.

Turned out later that they serially groomed girls for “relationships” (both were married).

Children much have the confidence that they can discuss genuine problems with teachers with each other, with their parents and other teachers if need be, without fear of censure and reprisals.

[Iwonder08]

@cupsofcoffee. If the teacher suffers from a medical condition that produces such body odours and can't be treated she should find a different career.

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

When I had this at work I just went in one day raving about this new deodorant i found that works wonders. Obviously, entirely different relationship and dynamic, plus being a bit sweaty myself it didn't come across as "aimed" at colleague. She asked what it was,where to buy it from, she did and it worked for her too so problem solved.

Well, you know what to get her as a “Thank you teacher gift” at least

(I’m joking. Please don’t do this)

[cupsofcoffee]

[quote me4real]@cupsofcoffee Most people it's just they aren't washing/applying stuff enough for themselves in the heat. Even with medical conditions there are often different things they can do. Obviously in the rare event there's some medical reason they can't do anything about, that's different. But usually it's not, it's that someone isn't doing something that they could.[/quote]
I agree that in most cases people can do something about it.

But as it stands, they don't know for sure. I would feel awful if I'd been making unpleasant comments about someone who was unwell.

[cupsofcoffee]

[quote Iwonder08]@cupsofcoffee. If the teacher suffers from a medical condition that produces such body odours and can't be treated she should find a different career.[/quote]
Are you that discriminatory about other health issues too?

[SheldonesqueTheBstard]

One would hope they are not coffee …

[rwalker]

2 separate issues the 1st one is been dealt with the 2nd one contact HT and tell her the teacher does smell and the pupils are struggling leave it with them .

[TheMethodicalMeerkat]

The outrage from some posters at children daring to notice or mention among themselves that an adult smells unpleasant! Oh and I see some have diagnosed a disability without any basis for that assumption at all . It’s really unfortunate that the teacher overheard the conversation but the insistence from some posters that the children should just put up with it is bizarre. Why should they? Because they’re children so their discomfort doesn’t matter?

There have been loads of threads over the years where people have colleagues with BO and don’t know how to address it (even as mature adults) and the general consensus is never “tough shit, just put up with it”! So why is it expected that children should? They’re hardly in a position to have a quiet word with the teacher and at 9 couldn’t be expected to handle a sensitive issue that even experienced managers dread so yes, the parents should politely broach it with the head and let them address it.

[ICanSmellSummerComing]

Smells are so incredibly powerful, they can affect us so much deeply

I'm really feel any one in a public facing role needs to be aware of body smells esp teachers of smaller dc

[cupsofcoffee]

The outrage from some posters at children daring to notice or mention among themselves that an adult smells unpleasant!

Noticing it is absolutely fine. Sitting and laughing about it isn't very pleasant, though probably fairly normal behaviour for a group of 9yos.

Oh and I see some have diagnosed a disability without any basis for that assumption at all hmm

Nobody has diagnosed anything AFAIK. They're just saying "What if she does - would the behaviour be acceptable then?"

It’s really unfortunate that the teacher overheard the conversation but the insistence from some posters that the children should just put up with it is bizarre. Why should they? Because they’re children so their discomfort doesn’t matter?

Well, if she has a health condition, what do you actually propose happens? She gets fired and can't work anywhere that involves other people ever again?

Nobody is saying their discomfort doesn't matter, but we can't always change other people's lifestyles, health conditions or behaviour to suit our own comfort levels.

[ObviousNameChage]

@cupsofcoffee

Why is it unacceptable?!

Because it's bloody rude, that's why.

How odd of you to think it’s appropriate for a child to hide that they feel uncomfortable!

There are more appropriate ways to show your discomfort than physically recoiling from people, though. This girl is 9 years old - she's more than old enough to understand that her behaviour isn't very nice.

Would you think it appropriate to physically recoil from someone who smelt due to illness, for example?

I have no idea what you're imagining in your head DD does.

What actually happens is that I might go for a hug, arms wideish,due to her height she's right under my armpit , and if I smell she'll back away or go for a side hug / turn her head away or say not now. She did also used to say it's because I was smelly when she was little . I just tell her it's ok , I'm having a shower soon and we can have cuddles after.

I don't think she's being rude or mean or that her behaviour in those circumstances are unacceptable. She's also fussy as fuck because she finds many food smells unpleasant . Fun times.

[jakesmommy]

The teacher may have a medical condition called hyperhidrosis, this causes excessive sweating, I have it and it is so unpleasant.

[cupsofcoffee]

What actually happens is that I might go for a hug, arms wideish,due to her height she's right under my armpit , and if I smell she'll back away or go for a side hug / turn her head away or say not now. She did also used to say it's because I was smelly when she was little . I just tell her it's ok , I'm having a shower soon and we can have cuddles after.

I wouldn't describe that as recoiling. Recoiling is physically showing disgust (as described in the dictionary).

I don't think she's being rude or mean or that her behaviour in those circumstances are unacceptable. She's also fussy as fuck because she finds many food smells unpleasant . Fun times.

She may not intentionally be being rude (if she has sensory issues the behaviour may be natural to her) but that doesn't mean it's not hurtful to other people.

I also struggle with sensory issues and have vomited emptying the bin in the past due to the smell, but that doesn't give me the right to laugh at other people's BO.

I know your said your DD wasn't laughing but unfortunately by hanging around with a group of girls who were laughing, she's managed to get herself in trouble.

[extravirginoliveoil]

@cupsofcoffee

Why haven't you taught her it's unacceptable to 'recoil' from you when you smell?

Why? I’ll tell people in my household if they smell whether it’s needing to take a shower or brush their teeth. I’d expect them to tell me too. If you can’t be honest in your household where can you?

[EvilCal]

The DD wasn't bullying the teacher, she didn't say anything to the teacher. She was discussing it with her friends, and said the truth, she's 9. Its perfectly normal behaviour for children.

Even if you have a medical condition that makes you smell you can't really expect the children not to notice or talk about it. Part of growing up is learning whats appropriate, what's not. How to handle things like this. It will be unpleasant to spend time in a room with someone who smells medical condition or not and part of growing up is discussing with peers and learning how to navigate things like this. You don't learn to not be mean because your parents tell you not to, you learn through your peers.

I had acne when I started my job and I distinctly remember a child asking what was on my face. I told him it was acne. I did have acne, it didn't really upset me. I know what my face looked like. His poor mum was mortified but even if he hadn't said it he would have been thinking it.

[esterwin]

I am glad I am not a teacher. I had this issue with peri-menopause and when it was hot my armpits would smell after half an hour.

[MouseyTheVampireSlayer]

It's hot. Schools don't have air conditioning.
Your child was rude.

[saltinesandcoffeecups]

Yes your DD shouldn’t have joined in… but I’m also going to say that if a person smells bad it can’t be shock that others will comment on it, especially children.

I remember being school and one of my teachers was assigning seats she was going to put me next to the smelly girl. This was not a case of oops, deodorant fail, she was was dirty and smelled very bad. Now I’m sure there were all sorts of reasons that this was the case and she couldn’t help and all the rest that everyone will excuse away, but none of that matters when you are forced to sit in close proximity to a bad odor.

I tried to be quiet about the reason for not wanting to sit next to her, coming up with other reasons, asking the teacher if I could discuss it privately but the teacher wouldn’t take the hint and challenged me in front of the class. I finally admitted that it was because the girl stunk. I mean goodness it’s not like it was a subtle wafting. I really did feel bad but not bad enough to sit next to her.

So yeah, OP I get what you are trying to say here. You’ve obviously backed up the school and reinforced at home, at the same time know that it has to be an unpleasant experience day after day for your daughter to be in.

[esterwin]

There is a difference between BO from not washing enough and the smell at the end of a hot day. Travel on the tube at the end of the day and loads of the office workers armpits smell.

[DelphiniumBlue]

I think the teacher will have realised that they smell, from the children's comments if nothing else, so you don't really need to do anything.
The Head is also aware, and will have dealt with it if they consider it to be an issue.
No need for you to put yourself, or the teacher, in an even more uncomfortable position.

[cupsofcoffee]

Why? I’ll tell people in my household if they smell whether it’s needing to take a shower or brush their teeth. I’d expect them to tell me too. If you can’t be honest in your household where can you?

But this didn't happen at home.

OP may be happy with being told she smells, but she also needs to teach her DD what behaviour is acceptable at home that isn't acceptable at school or out in public.

[ObviousNameChage]

@cupsofcoffee

Why? I’ll tell people in my household if they smell whether it’s needing to take a shower or brush their teeth. I’d expect them to tell me too. If you can’t be honest in your household where can you?

But this didn't happen at home.

OP may be happy with being told she smells, but she also needs to teach her DD what behaviour is acceptable at home that isn't acceptable at school or out in public.

I mentioned in the context of home(to show it's not something targeted at this teacher) . You still stated it's rude and unacceptable. I have no idea if she does it at school, it's never been mentioned by anyone but it's possible since it's such an involuntary reaction(her body and face react in a split second, then she "straightens" herself even if she keeps her distance).

I googled since English is my second language, and I still think recoil is exactly what I meant and what happens, but this is becoming ridiculous now so I'll just leave this side of the argument.

[Comefromaway]

Assuming your dd wasn’t making fun I don’t think she’s done anything wrong.

My Ds is autistic and has a heightened sense of smell. I know how difficult it is to be anywhere near smelly people