I know DD is in the wrong, but should children have to put up with this?

[ObviousNameChage]

DD got in trouble at school. I have no issues with the consequences she got and we had a very stern chat at home. For background she's never in trouble and described as a shy,quiet ,polite child so this is not the norm for her.


What happened was that some of her classmates were laughing and making comment that their teacher smells really bad, has sweat stains,you get the gist. DD said "I know , it makes me feel sick". Teacher overheard this and obviously all of the girls are in trouble, got a bollocking from her and also the head . They have to write apology letters and will miss play next week. We also had a talk at home about making comments,hurting people's feelings ,what's acceptable and what isn't etc.

The issue is, the teacher does actually smell quite bad, especially now in the heat, so many bodies in a sunny classroom etc. It is slightly noticeable at pick up and I'm not even that close. DD really doesn't like it and the smell (smells do in general she even recoils from me and her dad if we're smelly) does bother her. I do believe she made an honest statement , but still hurtful and as such she needs to deal with the consequences.She can't avoid it as there's group work,reading ,having chats, teacher coming over for help and so on.

It's such an awkward and difficult situation and the poor teacher must be mortified. However, at some level I also feel for the kids that have to put up with is for several hours a day and have no choice or option to "escape" from it.

If I say anything to the school I'll sound like a dick myself, the teacher will probably feel even worse and I don't think anyone can really do anything about it. At the same time I don't think it's ok for the children to just shut up and put up with it.

[Sometimesfraught82]

What if you were aware that despite your best efforts, your daughter had a very bad BO issue and was being bullied at school?

[FictionalCharacter]

The kids said, between themselves, things that were true. No-one would have been hurt if the teacher hadn’t overheard, which they didn’t think she would. Do we really expect kids (or adults) not to talk about someone who smells bad? I don’t think DD was rude or bitchy. I feel for her. I have a very acute sense of smell and bad smells make me feel ill. I’d hate to be cooped up with that teacher.

Is everyone here who says the kids were wrong/rude claiming they’ve never said unpleasant truths about someone behind their back? Really?

[Rosebel]

So your daughter has been taught for nearly a year by this woman but you only want to complain now your daughter is being punished?
You should have complained before, especially as you noticed it at pick up time.
Anything you say now will just sound like you're trying to justify your daughter's bad behaviour.
How do you know this poor woman doesn't have a medical condition so can't do anything about the smell?

[Sometimesfraught82]

@TatianaBis

The issue needs to be addressed at some point.

Like this?

[SueSaid]

'They most certainly would not go running to their manager and announcing the fact that "a bunch of people say that I have BO." I mean, I literally cannot imagine anything more embarassing that going to your boss and telling them that people were saying this about me.'

Well we only have the ops dd's side of the story don't we. Perhaps they were all shrieking 'Miss stinks' and making vomiting style noises. Some kids can be very unkind and will always try to justify their unpleasant behaviour.

So maybe the target of the mocking said to the head yes she will address her BO issues but could the head also tell the little shits off.

[dottiedodah]

TwinMum35 I must have been lucky as I have never encountered anyone who smelt ,had bad breath or dirty clothes (Worked in a Nursery School where it was part of our contract to be clean) Yes Really!

[TatianaBis]

[quote Sometimesfraught82]@TatianaBis

The issue needs to be addressed at some point.

Like this?[/quote]
They’re nine. They had a discussion in the playground. Were you expecting a Zoom meeting with minutes?

[TatianaBis]

@Kokeshi123

Thing is, most people-if they had overheard people saying that they smell-would be completely mortified and would do and say nothing other than rushing off to get a bunch of deodorant and upping their hygiene procedures.

They most certainly would not go running to their manager and announcing the fact that "a bunch of people say that I have BO." I mean, I literally cannot imagine anything more embarassing that going to your boss and telling them that people were saying this about me.

The fact that the teacher apparently reported what happened to other people at the school suggests to me that the teacher is "nose blind" and genuinely does not believe that she has a BO issue, and instead interpreted the children's remarks as being a sort of generalized insult---ie. she believes that the kids were saying that she "smells" just as a generally horrid thing to say. The fact that the school has decided to discipline the kids suggests that they lack the guts to say anything to the teacher about this.

Entirely agree.

[MrsMiddleMother]

You're daughter and her friends were mean and have been punished and you've agreed with the consequence which is right.
If the teacher genuinely does smell, I would speak to the head about it as its really not fair on the kids, especially in summer and it doesn't take away from your daughters punishment as they're 2 separate things.

[Librariesmakeshhhhappen]

Dont tell your daughter that she had a point. She needs to know that what she said is not Ok.

However, I would have a word with the head about the personal hygiene of the teachers and point out that even HR people can go through training on how to deal with employees who have poor personal hygiene because it isnt OK for one person to impact so many others because they dont wash or use anti-persperint. It is an acceptable thing to raise with a superior and ask for it to be dealt with; so you can do that in a professional and direct way with the head and ask that they deal with it, whilst also telling the head that you will deal with your daughter being so rude because the way she handled it was totally not OK and she must understand that.

[Chillychangchoo]

I remember recoiling at a teachers coffee breath. I told her too, I mean it’s no wonder she hated me. It did used to make me feel sick though. She used to get really close too 😷.

I’ve taught KS3 and 4 and I wouldn’t DARE do it smelling. Kids are mean…. It’s not the place to stink is it let’s face it?

No idea what the solution is OP.

[ObviousNameChage]

@Rosebel

So your daughter has been taught for nearly a year by this woman but you only want to complain now your daughter is being punished?
You should have complained before, especially as you noticed it at pick up time.
Anything you say now will just sound like you're trying to justify your daughter's bad behaviour.
How do you know this poor woman doesn't have a medical condition so can't do anything about the smell?

I never stated I WANT to complain. I did mention it, and also my train of thought that I don't feel like it would help the matter and asked for opinions/advice.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

I would hope the head teacher is already having conversation with teacher about over-sweatiness and perhaps going to GP about Botox injections or other treatments. The teacher doesn’t have to suffer.

I wouldn’t bring it up to head myself though.

I would explain to DD that is probably medical condition because some people do get over sweaty & smelly through no fault of their own even if their hygiene is quite good.

[EvilCal]

Tbh I think its quite rude and unpleasant to make children feel sick with your smell. Its not really acceptable to just expect children to silently put up with it

They are children, if someone smells they will discuss it. They arent work colleagues, she can't pull the teacher aside for a quiet word. It would be very difficult for a child to know how to approach another staff member about this. They are no where near mature enough to know how to handle this situation sensitively, many adults struggle.

Its not necessarily the teachers fault, they probably aren't aware they smell. But another member of staff or senior management should have sorted it out before it got to this stage. This situation was inevitable really

[rattlemehearties]

Can you talk to the headteacher or deputy head informally? Don't know how big your primary school is but at ours we could do this, maybe one morning at drop off.

[cupsofcoffee]

Is it? Why?

Because it's rude? There are medical conditions that make people sweat a lot and that make them smell. Not everyone can help it. @Iminaglasscaseofemotion

you prefer she made her daughter sit closely feeling sick and unable to do anything about it?

Vaguely recoiling away won't get rid of the smell, though. But it will make the person in question feel awful about themselves. Like I said above, some people have medical conditions that cause issues with sweat/smell - why should those people be subject to bullying and nasty comments as a result?

[Rainuntilseptember]

I imagine everyone smells sometimes
Is her room well ventilated? Many schools have windows that barely open. Is she having hot flushes? Or is pregnant? Or is being given a really hard time by the class? (stressful situations making stress worse). Does she have time at lunch for a wash and a change, she isn't supervising pupils etc?
I would not like this either but I do think a bit of common decency would not go amiss.

[Bagamoyo1]

@scaredsadandstuck

I feel like your DD is getting a hard time here.
As I understand it, she was having what she thought was a 'private' conversation at playtime with friends, unaware she was in earshot of any teachers about a genuine problem impacting her and her classmates. Her classmates truthfully say the teacher smells bad and DD says she agrees and truthfully says it makes her feel sick. She wasn't sniggering in class knowingly in earshot of the teacher concerned making bitchy comments or writing unkind notes or pulling faces behind her back or anything like that.

Of course kids should be taught to be careful of other's feelings and not be deliberately cruel, but to use words like bullying about this is ridiculous. A group of 9 year old girls speaking the truth about an adult between themselves isn't bullying. I wonder what lesson they will take from this?

That said in your position I would also be supporting the punishment given by school, but also emailing the head to say your daughter and her friends were speaking the truth. You understand it's hurtful that the teacher overheard them and your daughter is sorry for that, but you hope the head will also be raising the hygiene issue with the teacher as it must be unpleasant for the kids to deal with that for 6 hours a day.

This

[MyDcAreMarvel]

Removing playtime at primary age is really inappropriate and should never be done.

[Nocutenamesleft]

I have incredibly severe Hyperhidrosis. It’s weird though as mine is on my face and head. So doesn’t smell. But I know how bad it is. How awful it looks.

I read that you had a stern word with her. As someone who deals with this daily. I don’t know of a nice way of putting it which will make you not look bad

I do actually understand what you’re saying. I know how bad mines gets.

I would write a letter to the school saying that you understand the punishment. But that your daughter does find it hard. I get it that if I was pouring with sweat onto someone that it wouldn’t be nice for that person. I’m one of those overly sweaty people!

Just word it in a way that explains how uncomfortable your daughter is with it. If it works. Great.

[SueSaid]

'A group of 9 year old girls speaking the truth about an adult between themselves isn't bullying. I wonder what lesson they will take from this?'

What next, Miss is fat? That's probably true in many cases or 'sir has wonky teeth and bad breath!'? Give me a break. All this 'speaking the truth' rubbish is usually an excuse to be rude. As demonstrated.

They are 9 not 3. They should know not to be bad mannered if they've been parented effectively.

[VainAbigail]

@cupsofcoffee

Why haven't you taught her it's unacceptable to 'recoil' from you when you smell?

Why is it unacceptable?!

How odd of you to think it’s appropriate for a child to hide that they feel uncomfortable!

[Northernparent68]

@cupsofcoffee

Why haven't you taught her it's unacceptable to 'recoil' from you when you smell?

I thought this, sounds like you’ve taught her to be over sensitive.

[mam0918]

You say its bad in the heat and she sweats a lot so its likely a medical condition like hyperhydrosis.

What the fuck do you expect to achieve by insulting her or complaining about her disability?

Her body issues are non of your business and no one exists for you and your kids comfort, try thinking of someone other than yourself and what they face everyday and be thankful of your privilage that you arent the one having to live 24/7 with the judgement of people like yourself for things completely out of your control.

[Nocutenamesleft]

@3WildOnes

Sometimes you can’t help smelling. I don’t have this problem anymore as have luckily grown out of it but when I was younger I did have really stinky BO I had to wash numerous times a day and use a special deodorant that I was prescribed from the doctor that stopped me sweating completely but it really sting and left me very itchy.

If you were going to raise it it should have been before your daughter got in trouble for being unkind not after.
Some people are overweight it doesn’t make it OK to make personal comments about that no matter how true it is and it is the same for this.

I’ve tried that stuff

Rubbish. It closes the sweat glands. But they don’t tell you it makes other places sweat more. I stopped using it

Mine is down to a sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system dysfunction due to a stroke.