Punishing for a detention

[MSQuinn]

Year 7 DD has got her first after school detention for an hour after school. Her card says it’s because she got four warnings - 2 for uniform, 1 for littering and one for poor behaviour around the school. Would you also punish at home?

We would be having a chat at home (as you have) about why we follow certain rules in place.
The one that would annoy me the most is the littering tbh and she wasn’t actually even littering! the 2 uniform infringements seem accidental, the lateness can be sorted, telling someone off for coughing in her face - well I’d do the same. But there’s telling off and telling off really isn’t there? It can be interpreted wildly differently without actually being there to see it yourself.
School have issued a detention which is the punishment, your responsibility is to follow that up with a discussion at home which you’ve done.

Yes. As a teacher I wish that student’s would also have a punishment at home. I do think it would make some of them reconsider their actions.
I’ve often had this discussion with all colleagues, and we all agree that it would make such a difference to behaviour in school, if parents backed us up at home, by putting in consequences for poor behaviour at school.

I wouldn't punish her but I'd have a good chat to her about taking responsibility for her behaviour - apparently according to the explanations all four things were things that happened to her, rather than things she did, if you see what I mean. Regardless of circumstance, she needs to recognise she made the choices that led to the infractions.

@MSQuinn

I’ve spoken to her. One was because her kilt has gotten too big so she’s rolled it slightly so it doesn’t fall down, the other uniform was because her mask slipped down, littering turns out was late as she was going round the one way and the behaviour was because a boy who coughed in her face and she told him off. We’ve said we’re not overly pleased and reminded her that she needs to make sure she attends it.

We try to make sure she is able to partake in all the activities she wants as she has a lot to deal with at home. She often expresses that it’s difficult and life is tricky but she won’t engage with young carers.

Thanks all. As she’s our eldest I wasn’t sure how to approach it.

It's the school I wouldn't be overly pleased with. She's made sure her kilt doesn't fall down, had some trouble with mask fit, been forced to take the long route between classrooms, and had the audacity to oppose male violence against her. And she's punished for that.

I acknowledge that's just one interpretation and children do lie about what happened. But it's reason enough to not double down and automatically side with the school, I think.

Yes I would, especially for that many offences, I would temporarily remove some home privileges.

I'd talk to her about it andit would be clear I support the school and their expected standards of behaviour. I'd discuss how she'll avoid it happening again etc. I wouldn't do anything else though. The detention is the punishment and it will just mean she doesn't come to you in future with school issues.

No, the detention is punishment enough. I would have a talk with her about how to behave better in future to avoid detentions.

It's not unusual for teenagers to slightly reinvent school issues to make them out to be the innocent victim so I'd be slightly sceptical. That said some schools are ridiculous about uniform (I know a child who got a detention because his top button had fallen off on the way to school so he couldn't do it up).

Be aware that children, when asked what they did wrong to earn a sanction, will often minimise what they did, or talk about something else rather than the actual thing. Could be self-preservation, not wanting to admit what they did, or just not actually being clear about what they got sanctioned for. So what she has told you may not be the full story.

What I would suggest is a conversation about how disappointed you are that she has accrued these warnings and you hope that the detention will be an end to it, but if the behaviour points continue, then you will need to be speaking to the school to discuss what is going on.

As an aside I think school discipline for uniform is such bullshit. I don't see how uniform impacts learning.

When you join a school you agree to abide by the uniform rules. If you don't adhere to the rules, expect to have a consequence. Nothing to do with learning at all.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation If you gave it a moment's thought you would realise that you're argument is illogical and just a bit silly, given that most of us have very little choice over which school our child attends. They also change their policy fairly regularly so may not have even been in place when you joined.

I’d think getting till June without a detention was quite good and she’s already been punished.

I’d have a chat and not punish this time, but would make it clear that you’re particularly unimpressed by the poor behaviour and that if it continues there will be consequences.

I’d think getting till June without a detention was quite good and she’s already been punished.

Really? I never had a detention at school and I wasn't an angel.

The detention IS the punishment, in my opinion. I would certainly want a chat about future expectations following this succession of poor choices, however I wouldn't go down the road of doubling up on punishment for the 'first offence', as it were...

@SleepyPartyTime You have the option to not send your child to school if you don't want a uniform.

I have no time for people who constantly fight against the rules of something they have chosen to attend.

Students often use uniform as a minor act of teenage rebellion and it means they don't end up doing "worse" things. Constant wrong/inappropriate uniform just wastes everyone's time.

DS has had 2 or 3 detentions in his life, he's just finished Y11. I didn't punish him for any of them. I also didn't complain to the school, which I discovered a lot of parents do, and get the detention cancelled. I think schools can be a bit petty but then again kids can be a bit of a nuisance - so I remain neutral, empathise with DC about the inconvenience, talk about what they could do to 'appeal' if it is truly as unfair as they make out, and encourage them not to do it again in future. Or don't get caught

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

I hate it when people pretend to be stupid instead of engaging with a rational argument. Your argument is as stupid as the people who say 'if you don't like the country then get out' in response to a reasonable objection towards public policy. You know it's daft. It's fine to present an argument that actually a strict school uniform policy is a good thing if you have such an argument but don't just repeat the silly mantra of 'if you don't like it don't get an education'. You know it's stupid.

No I don't have the option to not send the child unless I have the ability to home school. By your reasoning schools could impliment any completely absurd policy and it's OK because you could simply not send your DC. NO sorry schools are a public service and do need to behave reasonably. Some schools local to me in recent times have implimented absurdly OTT uniform policies and yes parents do have a right to object to that.

There's a mass of rational argument for a uniform. Ultimately if you go to school, you abide by the policy. If you disagree with the policy, campaign against it. Most school policies are reasonable and constantly going against them is just annoying.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation I certainly wouldn't pointlessly object to a reasonable uniform policy. It's a strange English cultural tradition which while pointless and very outdated is harmless when implimented sensibly.

Many schols in my area however have ridiculous uniform policy which I would absolutely object to. Requiring expensive blazers and putting a child in isolation if the blazer isn't in good condition is stupid (especially when the school has an intake largely from a below average economic area). Requiring any expensive branded uniform is stupid when generic with a school tie would be fine is stupid. Having OTT punishments for minor accidental breaches of uniform is stupid. It creates anxiety for many students and breaks down the relationship between staff and students. It's also not representative of any employment you might prepare the students for and certainly not the kind of aspirational employment that uniform was initially supposed to prepare students for.

Double punishment then? No I wouldn't.

She's had the punishment. Detention.

Would you expect school to punish her for some misdemeanour at home?

I’m a teacher and I’d be really glad to have parents reinforce the message at home. Like you say, I’d just have a strong word at home since she’s already got a punishment. I would actually be really cross about the littering unlike some others on here as I think it shows a bit of a lack of respect that needs nipping in the bud. Uniform is a constant battle with most pupils so I’d be less bothered about that! You could perhaps use the threat of a home punishment if there’s a repeat of any of this at school.

For those particular offences no I wouldn’t, but as a principle I would if it was warranted.

When I was at school I’d have been punished at home for getting into trouble at school, as would most of my friends, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I think there’s a tendency to compartmentalise a bit too much. Kids need to see teachers and home as a team in the same way that they need to see parents as a team.