to want to discourage my daugter's friendship with bossy, name-calling child?

[Anna8888]

My daughter (just) had a school friend over for the first time last week, at her own request. Said friend is nearly 3 and speaks French well, better than my daughter, but no English.

During lunch, sitting opposite her at table, this little girl called my daughter names "Espèce de ver de terre" (= "you earthworm"), "Espèce de timido" (= "scaredy cat"). I was horrified and told the little girl that she shouldn't do that.

While the two of them were playing, the other child was very bossy and also kept coming to see me to tell me that my daughter was refusing to share her toys with her.

I was not impressed and don't want to encourage this friendship. My daughter is, however, quite keen on this child.

What do you think?

oh dear, dd has just said "bye bye banana-head" to our (adult) neighbour. i am clearly a Very Bad Mother....

Hmm. "Bye-bye banana head" wouldn't bother me as much as the "espèce de ver de terre" and "espèce de timido" across the lunch table.

LilianGish - they don't pick these things up in the playground from older children as they only play with children from their own class of 14. But of course I have no idea what this child's life is like. I have met the mother once, for tea, and she is very friendly and chatty, but from another world entirely to mine.

My DS1 5 year olds friend used the word "c**t" at our dinner table. He has two older brothers. We are in a nice school in the south east so not exactly the inner city but I was suprised . Its just a word that gets a reaction, I just sort of ignored it and DS1 has used't it.

DS1 has gone off this boy a bit, as he is a bit of a bully and in particular was really horrible to DS2 when he came over. That concerned me much more than the bad language.

But the other children may have older brothers and sisters - ime they are usually tyhe ones with the bad habits!.

When you say this mother is from another world entirely to yours, is that the real issue, perhaps? Are you looking for extra reasons to stop a friendship you think crosses some kind of lifestyle/class divide to an extent that you just don't want it to happen anyway?

As for your child not knowing the language or calling names - well that's true as far as you know . The first time may surprise you! . Very nice children can come out with all sorts. I was a nice middle-class English child at school in France, ca. 1983, and I was taught many interesting words by my classmates - I had no idea I shouldn't start saying them in front of my parents, and I was seven! For my own child, joky name-calling with all sorts of funny made-up names was a very definite stage he and his friends went through aged about 3-4. We had to curb it, because of the principle of not name-calling, but at that stage it was completely without malice.

What do you mean by 'another world entirely?'

YABU. The little girl is three. if you are really worried about the name calling, say this to her next time she does it and make sure that she is under no illusions when she comes to your house that you do not tolerate name calling. Also, keep an eye on your own child. Doess he seem upset or hurt when her friedn calls her names/ If she is shruging it off and isn't too affected by it, is it really a huge issue?

Banning them from playing together seems ridiculously excessive, imo.

scooz typos

"From another world entirely" = she lives in a big extended family set-up, her father wouldn't let his two daughters move more than 500m from their childhood home and her parents have the nanny at their house and grandchildren, current and future, will all be cared for in the grandparents house by a nanny employed by them.

It's another world to mine (family scattered all over the world, no support on the doorstep).

dd1 had a little boy over once who was really rude and badly behaved, I didn't like having him for tea so we never invited him again. I think dd1 stayed friends with him though but didn't see why I and the other dds should have to put up with it if we didnt have to.

LOL Enid - I did refuse to have one of my elder stepson's friends back, not only did he have no manners (couldn't use a knife and fork properly aged 11) but he stank to high heaven. Even my younger stepson, who is no hygiene freak, noticed that the whole flat reeked after this boy had stayed.

"This child's behaviour falls very short of the standards of behaviour we have in our family."

"they don't pick these things up in the playground from older children as they only play with children from their own class of 14. But of course I have no idea what this child's life is like."

Anna, might you be criticising the child's family for teaching her/allowing her to pick up such behaviour? Your dd has started school and will increasingly spend more and more time there and brush up against a world that is entirely different to yours with different families and different values.

I think you will tie yourself in knots in tut-tutting at what is simply age-appropriate behaviour and nothing particularly spiteful. At 3, they are just experimenting. Feel free to tell this young lady that is not allowed when she is in your home. Great that your dd did not understand her insults - bet that took the wind out of her sails if she was looking for attention.

BTW, god knows where children pick things up - could be from TV, a cousin, a older sibling of a classmate. As my dd progresses from toddler into pre-schooler, I am learning that I have to gradually let go. And one day, dd will make friends and decisions I don't approve of. Your dd will find her own way. You have given her a firm grounding.

My DTS are 3.5 yo and have never been on playdates and never will as far as I can help it. I find the whole thing, just like the word, nauseating.

she is still a baby. Does she have an older sibling-my 3 year old has picked all sorts of delightful things from her 6 year old brother but she is too young to know what she is saying.
If you are worried about this then god help you when she is making friends at school!

I know that my daughter will come up against children from all kinds of backgrounds and I want that - that's why I chose the school she goes to, where there are dozens of nationalities and cultures.

The issue is how to deal with the differences when those differences are at odds with values we are trying to instil in our children and that we think are very important. There are, of course, all kinds of differences that are neither here nor there and just add to the spice of life - different food, different dress, different habits at home (this little girl wanted to eat in our dining room, for example, and was put out when I said we were going to be having lunch in the kitchen - that kind of issue I have no problem dealing with at all).

Kindness and consideration to others in our home is something we hold very dear. So, yes - I need to have no qualms about telling this little girl, if she is in my home, that name calling and running to adults to sort out disputes between children are not allowed in our home.

I remember in primary school I had a friend who my parents disliked, she was sneeky they said because she whispered in front of them and never looked at them if they spoke to her so they tried to stop us being friends (actually what they also disliked was the fact that she was from a hippy family and very different style of life to any one around our small town) but it didn't work - I stayed best friends with her 'til we went to dfferent schools aged 11.
I don't think you have to invite dc to play if you don't like them but that won't stop them playing together at school.

admylin - completely agree that children are free to play with whomever they choose to at school.

I just hope mine don't make the wrong friends and the older they get the harder it is to influence.
When ds was at Kindergarden in Germany he had a friend who was very cheeky and would always end the afternoon at our place by teasing my dd and getting her so wound up that it mostly ended in tears so I had to stop inviting him. Ds still played with him at Kindergarden (and sometimes got into trouble there for joining in with his teasing games) but in the end he saw the light and changed friends! Phew...

I think it is something you will have to get used to and you can use it as a way to instill your values in your daughter. My DS has friends who are allowed sit in the front of the car - he is not. He is in the minority of friends who still have a proper car-seat. As I say to them when they comment "our family our rules - your family your rules".

DS has a Playstation. Some of his friends don't and I am sure they say "our family our rules - their family their rules".

The bossiness is typical of 3 year old girls I think!

On a similar note, I was a bit upset that dd's best friend (they are both six) has told her there is no such thing as Santa - it's the mummies and daddies who buy the presents. Friend is a Muslim who doesn't really do Christmas - have just about persuaded dd that Santa doesn't come if you don't believe in him which is why her friend's mummy has to buy her a present. Bit of a tricky one though - as obviously Santa doesn't exist, but hoped dd would keep up the fantasy for a bit longer especially as she has a four-year-old brother.

Anna, i am afraid you expect little girls of 3 to be little adults. I don't think they are lost to the civilised world just because of a bit of namecalling and squealing at this age.

This is where your benign influence comes in. Failing which, don't have her round. Tbh, your dd will make up her mind anyway eventually. How will your dd learn if she does not encounter different behaviour from what she is used to at home? At least now you can still influence your dd. That influence will start to dissipate soon.

Tolerance and giving others (particularly ones who are little more than babies) the benefit of the doubt are also good values.

God knows what that little girl's family might be thinking of your savage family who eats in the kitchen.

My children are in French school and my youngest boy has recreation with the children of moyenne section and grand section, so maybe this little girl has heard it in the playground from the older children. I've heard the names those 5 year olds fling about at each other, so it is a strong possibility.

Saying that I dropped my 3 year old off today and he said "bye poo poo head", he didn't hear that from anyone, he's made it up all by himself, and I can't blame the kids from school because he would have insulted me in French if he'd heard it there. All down to him on this one. Obviously he thought it was hilarious and I just had to ignore it. We're a nice family, don't insult each other, children just come up with these things on their own for amusement. It's the naughtiest words they can think of.

And the bit about telling you your daughter's not sharing, well don't all children tell tales that the other won't share, it's an integral part of a play date, generally finished off in my house by said toy being confiscated and nobody playing with it.

LOL Lilian - I have a Christmas minefield . On my side we are traditional English with Father Christmas coming down the chimney on the night of 24/25 December and filling the stockings with little presents plus big presents from M&D, grandparents etc after lunch. On my partner's side they are Jewish, "celebrate" Christmas on 24 in the evening à la française with all presents from Père Noël with whom one places an order several weeks ahead.

Trying to make Christmas more than just a commercial event with my out-of-laws is v v difficult

oljam - no, the petite section is all on its own at my daughter's school (separate building).

Anna, I don't think you are being unreasonable, there are always going to be children we can't stand that ours want to befriend.

DD'S best friends are so totally opposite, one is the child her teacher told me she wants to discourage her from sitting with in class as she is disruptive, the other is the daughter of one of the parent governers, who is also a dinner lady and a school helper, and often has people from their class over/goes on playdates.

The 'troublemaker' is always extremely well behaved at my house, but I ahd other parents say to me at DD's halloween party 'Oh, my you invited ***, I wouldn't have her at one of my parties' , the other child has cried over the slightest thing everytime she has been to my house, complained that DS is here, but won't go in a different room to him (expected me and him to go out of the living room do they could play in there!!!) and is basically a little whingy brat.

I don't even feel comfortable telling the whiny one that what she is doing isn't nice to DS, in fear of her crying, but I'm such a sap when her mother turns up, saying she has been ever so good

I wish my DD didnt choose her as a friend, but there isn't anything I can do, really.

I think three is quite young, but my DS is the same age as your DD and I know he'd be quite hurt to be called names, so I'd probably just say 'we don't have name-calling in this house, it's not nice' and leave it at that.

So no, wanting to discourage it isn't unreasonable, but if you were to do more than just eek out contact at home then I think it would be unreasonable.