To think I should be allowed to flex my working hours for school hols?

[Lucy788]

To give context:
Ds started reception in September. There was no wraparound on and as I have been WFH my boss agreed I could start work half an hour later at 9am to drop him off. I do this 4 x days a week and make up the 2hrs 1 evening.
This has worked well throughout - he has said so himself and let me continue to do this 2 days a week when breakfast club opened in Nov.
As of start of August this year our company are due to move back to original working eg. Working from the office and regular working patterns.
This obviously coincides with Summer holidays. Today I discussed with my boss that for the first 3wks in Aug I'd like to continue exactly as I am as the holiday club he will attend opens at 8.30 and he will be going 2 x days a week. So I will need to make up an extra hour a week.
He basically told me that unfortunately flexi time will have ended by then and therefore I can't!
I am kind of in disbelief. I'm more than happy as of Sept when back to school to return to normal working pattern, but I've done this since September and it has caused absolutely no issues whatsoever.
I explained to him that my alternative is to take unpaid leave 2 x days a week for 3 weeks as I will have no childcare and he basically sent me away and said he will think about it and let me know next Thursday if im allowed.
Aibu to be pissed off about this!?

It's a computer based roll and I work alone, eg. Me not being there at 8.30am doesn't impact anybody and I've demonstrated that for months.

@L0bstersLass why is consistency necessary or good? What is the benefit?

But the consistency could be that everyone does the same hours in a week (although I'd argue that's not necessary), meets their targets, and gets on with their lives.

It lazy, poor management to not be able to manage people without these kinds of arbitrary rules around exactly when one clicks in or out

I'm baffled by employers who continue to stick to such rigid hours. If you're not in a role that required meetings/phones being answered at a certain time etc, plus the arrangement's been successful since September, why on earth wouldn't they let someone do it for three further weeks.

It would be entirely pointless to request a permanent change for the sake of those few weeks. We also live in an area with completely non existent childcare, and I have a husband who starts at 7.30 too. Luckily my employer is allowing me to be flexible as I would be screwed!

[quote L0bstersLass]@copperpotsalot - 33 days, not including bank holidays. It's usually 30 but all staff got 3 days additional leave free this year as a thank you for their loyalty during the pandemic.[/quote]
Ah that's pretty good to be fair. And explains why the solution of taking holiday doesn't seem like such a bad one seeing as they have a fair amount to use up.

But I still think rigid hours are extremely outdated as a concept

It's not like most of the holiday club providers are actually fully back to normal so it would be sensible to keep the flexibility for this summer!

For the sake of just three weeks I can see why you're annoyed OP.

If there is no work need for you to be working that half hour and doesn't impact on other staff having to cover for you, it is very short-sighted if your employer won't agree to be flexible.

In these situations, some employers recognise the benefits of 2 way flexibility - if they allow their staff this leeway that doesn't adversely impact on their work, their staff are likely to go the extra mile, put in more effort, work that bit more to meet deadlines etc.

Others will say, nope, your contract says you need to start work at 8.30, if I give you this flexibility, everyone else will demand it, I can't figure out a way to be fair to everyone so you'll need to take unpaid leave and I'll need to figure out how to cover 3 weeks of you being on leave.

I hope your employer accepts.

I understand your frustration especially when it's for such a short period.
You say you are only one in your role and it wont affect anyone else which may well be true but do you share an office with others, even if they do a slightly different job?
I know it's probably not fair to you but as a manager sometimes it is just easier to have a blanket policy of no special allowances.
The amount of pettiness and begrudgery i see in my office is shocking. Grown women who cannot mind their own business and hate to think that someone else might be getting any little thing they arent. The whinging is unbelievable. And yes there is huge resentment by non parents of those with children getting any leway.
And then there is always the one who takes the piss and advantage of any flexability so ruins it for everyone.
Its the main reason im not looking forward to all being back in office again, the bitching and watching everyone else.
Its harsh on the good employees and not a view i ever thought I'd support but increasingly and sadly its the most workable option

L0bstersLass I am honestly astonished that your company is so rigid about start times. My husband and I are both in totally different sectors and a degree of flex would be absolutely expected in both of our organisations.

Out of interest is your office outside of london? I have a theory that London based employers tend to be more flexible because of the unpredictability of commuting.

I don’t have children and yet I 100% support the OP request. I’m seeing a similar dramatic / unreasonable lack of flexibility in my workplace as well. It’s shit for parents and the company can easily be flexible with no impact whatsoever yet they are suddenly being hardline.

It’s infuriating to me even as a non parent, seeing my brilliant colleagues who require a tiny bit of flexibility, yet they are being messed around by decisions made by management (who are totally made up of 55 yr old men).

Company behaviour like this also disproportionately affects women, like my child free boss who has caring duties looking after an elderly parent, and has also lost the flexibility that helped her during the past 15 months.

It’s due to these behaviours by my own employers that I’m looking for another role because I don’t want to work for a company that treats people like this, so huge sympathy to OP.

I think core hours make the most sense for those employers who are really stuck in their ways. Ideally core hours could be understood as 10-4 for example, with everyone expected to be available during those hours. Then if you've got school run commitments or appointments you can't move, you can work the rest of your hours before or after, or split it into the early morning or evening. Maybe we'll progress there one day!

That's crappy behaviour from your manager. Definitely worth speaking to HR - and yes, mention that being so inflexible where there's no impact on your job is unfriendly towards families. A big company should care about that.

Think about whether you're likely to eventually get it agreed - or whether you'd still want it anyway, if you would take half-days off - and consider booking it now whilst there is still space even without agreement.

I had a similarly inflexible boss when DD was at nursery and I wish I'd pushed harder and possibly just turned up late. He certainly didn't object the many, many times I stayed late (far more than I was asking for in flexibility)

You sound totally reasonable OP but from a manager point of view, there will be staff who either can’t flex because of their role but want to, who don’t need to flex but think it’s unfair someone else gets to complaint loudly about how unfair it is you get to.

I have been through a few bruising HR process’s where the outcome has had to be “well no one can have it now” which I think is wrong but there is always one that spoils it for everyone. You’re doing your work from home and making up hours but I can bet you there is some asking for the same and not making up the time. And while yes you could allow everyone to flex then performance mange someone not making up their time in an attempt to manage them out if you were the manager would you take that on or just say, everyone back in the office

Been a manager through some tricky HR process’s not myself been through them

This makes me mad on your behalf, OP. Why do employers think they get the best out of people by making it harder for them to actually do their job?!
I used to work in big companies like this. Then I moved to a smaller, truly flexible organisation and my eyes have been opened. Now I’m treated like a grown up. I deliver my work and my employer trusts me to do so. I work the number of hours I’m paid for (and more besides) but no one is checking where I am at a given time. There is no resentment amongst the team - we all recognise each other as individuals with different flexibility needs that change over time.
It’s refreshing OP and if it’s an option in your industry, I urge you to try it.

@Unihorn

I think core hours make the most sense for those employers who are really stuck in their ways. Ideally core hours could be understood as 10-4 for example, with everyone expected to be available during those hours. Then if you've got school run commitments or appointments you can't move, you can work the rest of your hours before or after, or split it into the early morning or evening. Maybe we'll progress there one day!

We're consulting on this at the moment. Looking at 10-3 as core hours.

Thanks everyone, much appreciated.
This has actually given me food for thought.
Flexibility is a 2 way thing you're absolutely right. My boss knows I regularly work more hours than I'm contracted to and we have many off site meetings planned together for the Autumn, all of which we are going to be home much later than normal but I would never dream of asking for this time back.
I think I may try and nip this I the bud early next week and approach it again but remind him that while I understand its not ideal, I'm being flexible with them too.

Most flexible working requests have a get out clause for both parties after a month. If your boss likes rules, apply for relevant month then cancel

I can understand your frustrations OP. It’s not like it’s permanent so o feel sorry for you.

One of my colleagues had to take months off work to look after her DH (after a crash but he’s ok now)

Work were really good with her, she was on full pay. When she came back safe was allowed to chose her days/hours, even though it wasn’t great for the rest of the staff, example, they’d be short staffed on the busiest days and when she’d leave at 2.30 they’d be on their own.

She asked to make this permanent and out old boss agreed, because she wanted an easy life. It certainly wasn’t a good business idea.

Said boss retired and now a new woman has taken over and asked my colleague to help on the busiest days…

Colleague is raging and waves the cushy shifts. I fell that the new manger has her card marked and knows that colleague knows she’s now taking the piss to expect to be allowed to continue with her easy days/shifts.

At the end of the day, if a company can accommodate it then great but if it makes the lives of other staff more difficult- I can totally see why it would be a no.

@Dustyhedge

L0bstersLass I am honestly astonished that your company is so rigid about start times. My husband and I are both in totally different sectors and a degree of flex would be absolutely expected in both of our organisations.

Out of interest is your office outside of london? I have a theory that London based employers tend to be more flexible because of the unpredictability of commuting.

Yes, but our London office has the same policies.

The lack of flexibililty in the work place and with child care provision is horrendous and a huge issue for parents and working mothers in particular. I really feel for you OP, I do think we need a change in culture to be more flexible in general, COVID has shown that it's possible and that productivity can be improved when managers are sufficiently competent and well-supported to handle employees with fairness and empathy.

Lucy788 You’ve had lots of messages sympathising (including my own) but not many practical solutions. This is going to be a recurring thing as will presumably be an issue for every school holiday you’re working if your manager doesn’t flex. Have any of your neighbours got older teens who would walk your child to school? Are there any school parents you could ask? I know you’ve said you don’t know people well but on our class WhatsApp there have been a few mums asking for help with lifts or other emergencies and people have helped (also reception so understand it’s been harder to get to know people). I’d happily walk another child on a short-term basis if they were at my door and ready to go.

Are there camps further afield that would work? The ones closest to me don’t do extended hours so I tend to have to go a fair distance to get one that does 8-6. There are no childminders near me either.

[quote Lucy788]@Xyzzzzz the thing is I don't want this to be a permanent working pattern, only till the 3rd week of August. If I submit it as a formal flexible working request I have to stick with it for a year![/quote]
You can make a formal request for a temporary change e.g. from x date to y date. You can only make one request a year, so if you are sure this is the only change you will need then make it formal.

Make sure explain how you have considered business needs and how they can still be met.

We have flexible working across the organisation with core hours. Everyone can use it for any reason - school run, exercise class, not being a morning person and fancy a 10am start.

Like the op, our roles facilitate this sort of working, noone is inconvenienced, noone takes the piss (and anyway, there are rules to prevent this), all round positive for productivity and happy people.

How shortsighted of your boss.

But that's totally different, Tableflowerss. Of course if it's shifts or the company needs cover, and the flexibility would negatively impact colleagues, then the boss is entirely right to refuse.

But OP has said she works alone on a computer, and there is no impact on her job. She shows flexibility on her side, and works extra hours. To refuse her a half-hour flexibility for a few weeks which won't have any downside but will make her it possible for her to actually work, is bloody obtuse.