Oxfam - rape reporting

[MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously]

mol.im/a/9671555

Wtf? Has anyone else seen this yet?

This reminds me of when 12 years a slave came out and everyone was running around like headless chickens saying "at last someone has told the story of slavery!!!"

Toni Morrison, Alice Walker, Nora zeale Hurston....? No. Obviously none of these amazing writers had anything of importance to say about womanhood or slavery

It's why we don't donate to oxfam. Far too political and not doing what people need in developing or war torn country tries.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Well I don't give a fuck about 'official' pecking order. I'm fed up of hearing that women are below everyone else.

It’s the clearly the “pecker order” in the belief women should know their place and it’s clearly somewhere way in the back according to Oxfam where they can’t be seen or heard.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously
I don't know how anyone can say that white women don't experience the same discrimination and inequality when we are looking at a document from a charity telling white women not to report rape or demand justice in case it disadvantages a bame rapist. Because obviously he's more important hmm

You cannot see beyond Whiteness, and subconscious support of White male privilege

White males have been sexually abusing Black women, girls, boys, Oxfam is the tip of the sexual exploitation iceberg dressed up as Foreign Aid.

Here we have a switching tactic to distract you from this into "He's Black, that's why we're being silenced re talking about his rape crimes".

It's easily done, this lens-shifting. & The reason its so very easy is in the main, White feminism will fall for it every time. Suddenly the main issue is ire at it 'not being pc' to talk about Black people in this concept.

Defence of White men and blame of Black people is nothing new.

It's the White rapist that's deemed more important. The Black rapist in this instance is a scapegoat and White women (for now) are being used to carry a message that the cover up of rape culture has Black men at its core. When we know that's not the case at all. But it will let White men off the hook.

White men know how to play the game.

Job done.

DeeCee, what I see is that some men abuse women. And those men will mostly (but not exclusively) target the extremely vulnerable because they are more likely to get away with it. So that's the poor, unrepresented women in Haiti and the poor, unrepresented girls in Rotherham. But it's also women across all ethnicities and classes and wealth in all countries. And societies across the world don't give enough of a shit to protect any of us. I don't see this as white men abusing black women, I see it as abusive men in positions of power (of all ethnicities) will abuse women (of all ethnicities) if they think they can get away with it!
I'm not defending white rapists - I want those men to be serving very long prison sentences. If black men are being given longer sentences, then I want the sentences if white men to be increased to match them, not for black men to get lower ones.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

DeeCee, what I see is that some men abuse women. And those men will mostly (but not exclusively) target the extremely vulnerable because they are more likely to get away with it. So that's the poor, unrepresented women in Haiti and the poor, unrepresented girls in Rotherham. But it's also women across all ethnicities and classes and wealth in all countries. And societies across the world don't give enough of a shit to protect any of us. I don't see this as white men abusing black women, I see it as abusive men in positions of power (of all ethnicities) will abuse women (of all ethnicities) if they think they can get away with it! I'm not defending white rapists - I want those men to be serving very long prison sentences. If black men are being given longer sentences, then I want the sentences if white men to be increased to match them, not for black men to get lower ones.

💯

@FourTeaFallOut

I'm suggesting that sinking into a feminist black hole of cultural relativism affords Oxfam the opportunity to reframe some feminists as bad feminists, which is useful when a number of those feminists are in the media and pointing at you saying your charity workers shouldn't be trading aid for sex.

EXACTLY.

Spot on MrsHunt

@DeeCeeCherry

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously I don't know how anyone can say that white women don't experience the same discrimination and inequality when we are looking at a document from a charity telling white women not to report rape or demand justice in case it disadvantages a bame rapist. Because obviously he's more important hmm

You cannot see beyond Whiteness, and subconscious support of White male privilege

White males have been sexually abusing Black women, girls, boys, Oxfam is the tip of the sexual exploitation iceberg dressed up as Foreign Aid.

Here we have a switching tactic to distract you from this into "He's Black, that's why we're being silenced re talking about his rape crimes".

It's easily done, this lens-shifting. & The reason its so very easy is in the main, White feminism will fall for it every time. Suddenly the main issue is ire at it 'not being pc' to talk about Black people in this concept.

Defence of White men and blame of Black people is nothing new.

It's the White rapist that's deemed more important. The Black rapist in this instance is a scapegoat and White women (for now) are being used to carry a message that the cover up of rape culture has Black men at its core. When we know that's not the case at all. But it will let White men off the hook.

White men know how to play the game.

Job done.

@DeeCeeCherry great post and fwiw I think you're 100% right. However, your nuanced message is absolutely not what is conveyed by a picture of a white woman crying and a headline about white feminism weaponising their trauma towards BAME men.

All women should be free to report sexual abuse and rape and they should receive justice from a fair and impartial system that does not disproportionately punish/absolve one race above or below the other. The fact that they do not is a huge issue. But that's not women's fault.

As you say, the white man knows how to play the game. This is sand being thrown in women's eyes on an industrial scale.

@DeeCeeCherry

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously I don't know how anyone can say that white women don't experience the same discrimination and inequality when we are looking at a document from a charity telling white women not to report rape or demand justice in case it disadvantages a bame rapist. Because obviously he's more important hmm

You cannot see beyond Whiteness, and subconscious support of White male privilege

White males have been sexually abusing Black women, girls, boys, Oxfam is the tip of the sexual exploitation iceberg dressed up as Foreign Aid.

Here we have a switching tactic to distract you from this into "He's Black, that's why we're being silenced re talking about his rape crimes".

It's easily done, this lens-shifting. & The reason its so very easy is in the main, White feminism will fall for it every time. Suddenly the main issue is ire at it 'not being pc' to talk about Black people in this concept.

Defence of White men and blame of Black people is nothing new.

It's the White rapist that's deemed more important. The Black rapist in this instance is a scapegoat and White women (for now) are being used to carry a message that the cover up of rape culture has Black men at its core. When we know that's not the case at all. But it will let White men off the hook.

White men know how to play the game.

Job done.

Well said. In all the pitting of BAME men vs white women, white men are the winners.

And societies across the world don't give enough of a shit to protect any of us. I don't see this as white men abusing black women, I see it as abusive men in positions of power (of all ethnicities) will abuse women (of all ethnicities) if they think they can get away with it!

This is coming from a place of white feminist privilege though, as the main victims of abuse are BAME women by these charities. So you seeing it through an #allwomenmatter lens is naive at best, arrogant at worst.

All women do matter. Rape isn't better or worse depending upon the skin colour of the woman it happens to. Yes, the men who worked for these charities were abusing BAME women - the Asian men in Rotherham targeted white girls. That's because those women were easily accessible to them and had no defenses. This particular charity has allowed it's staff to abuse BAME women and is telling white women to stfu because the fact that her attacker is black, and may be punished more than a white man is more important than her sexual assault. The victim of sexual assault isn't obliged to give a shit about that tbh.
All these men may well be racist as well as sexual abusers but I would doubt that they are stand up citizens to women who share their skin colour.
What we need to be focusing on wrt sentencing is that if white men are getting shorter sentences, that needs to change so they get longer ones too.

Yes but my point is the victims are BAME women and here we are talking about white women and all women matter.

Would you have started this thread if it was only about BAME women?

Of course. What I'm taking issue with is that a powerful charity is telling women not to report rape because what happens to the rapist is more important than what has happened to them!
I think that Oxfam should have been thoroughly investigated before being allowed to continue operating anyway. This is just one more thing that illustrates they are not fit to be operating.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously*

Thanks for response. But as said, you don't see beyond Whiteness. You've mentioned you aren't defending White make rapists; yet that isn't what my commentary is about at all.

& You've gone on to give a non-specific 'world view' - We're all in it together style. We are not.

Stating "men of all ethnicities do this or that" isn't helpful as it doesn't address what a privileged group of men are doing, in this particular scenario, which is setting up a non-White man to take the fall

This is specific. It's about Oxfam. & the abhorrent actions of White men in Black countries. They appear to be unstoppable, for reasons I outlined in my commentary.

@DeeCeeCherry

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously*

Thanks for response. But as said, you don't see beyond Whiteness. You've mentioned you aren't defending White make rapists; yet that isn't what my commentary is about at all.

& You've gone on to give a non-specific 'world view' - We're all in it together style. We are not.

Stating "men of all ethnicities do this or that" isn't helpful as it doesn't address what a privileged group of men are doing, in this particular scenario, which is setting up a non-White man to take the fall

This is specific. It's about Oxfam. & the abhorrent actions of White men in Black countries. They appear to be unstoppable, for reasons I outlined in my commentary.

Could you give us examples of what white women should do? Both the white women who were told not to report abuse if their attacker is BAME and white women who are outraged on behalf of that, and the white women who are appalled and outraged by the abuses committed on BAME women by white aid workers? Because, shutting the fuck up won’t be beneficial for anyone except the men. So what can we do?

DeeCee I do see what you are saying. This is about power and generally men have more than women. And society works to uphold the status quo. In the West it is white men who hold the power. But that isn't true everywhere and women are no better off.
Abusive men will target whoever is vulnerable and in their path. They will deliberately join organisations which give them access to the vulnerable. Women don't hold much societal power so we are are always at a disadvantage, regardless of skin colour. Which is why I consider us to all be in it together. Women are getting murdered all the time by violent men. I think it's one every 3 days in the UK. In this particular situation we are talking about Oxfam, whose message to all women seems to be that none of us matter. Imo no category of man is better than any other when it comes to upholding women's safety and women's rights. It's clearly a problem in the charity sector but it's also a problem throughout society generally.

I'm not very coherent this morning, been awake since 4. But I don't think women are going to forget that all men are a potential threat to us, however it's framed and that training document just reinforces that discrimination against men takes priority over whatever has happened to women.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

You're right - STFU doesn't cut it.

Lobby organisations that could highlight and expose sexual exploitation by aid workers.

Work towards shining a light on it so offenders can't hide so well; so they can't lie low and start again when they think it's all been forgotten.

Ask questions as to why a huge charity such as Oxfam, is allowed to get away with this.

Don't donate to Oxfam - and let them know exactly why.

These men mostly have wives or girlfriends at home, I wonder if these women are proud their husbands are going off to do something "worthy?"

I wonder about the White women working alongside these men too, they know what goes on but they don't whistleblow. That culture of secrecy and the reasons for it needs to be blown apart too.

White feminism can be a combined voice against sexual deviance disguised as help. You know White voices in the West will be more so heard than Black voices in the West.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Yes it is about power but you're still unable to stick to this specific situation. #allmen do it #allwomenmatter is not helpful. It's just too broad. Tackle issues systematically in targetted fashion is a way forward. When too broad, nothing actually gets done.

& If having difficulty in targeting even 1 organisation it's a case of admitting to oneself, the reasons for that.

We can't keep saying "yeah this is happening but look over there" in a time when Womens' rights are so much under attack you'd think it was 50 years ago.

Feminism has to be for all women - and mean it.

@DeeCeeCherry

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

You're right - STFU doesn't cut it.

Lobby organisations that could highlight and expose sexual exploitation by aid workers.

Work towards shining a light on it so offenders can't hide so well; so they can't lie low and start again when they think it's all been forgotten.

Ask questions as to why a huge charity such as Oxfam, is allowed to get away with this.

Don't donate to Oxfam - and let them know exactly why.

These men mostly have wives or girlfriends at home, I wonder if these women are proud their husbands are going off to do something "worthy?"

I wonder about the White women working alongside these men too, they know what goes on but they don't whistleblow. That culture of secrecy and the reasons for it needs to be blown apart too.

White feminism can be a combined voice against sexual deviance disguised as help. You know White voices in the West will be more so heard than Black voices in the West.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Yes it is about power but you're still unable to stick to this specific situation. #allmen do it #allwomenmatter is not helpful. It's just too broad. Tackle issues systematically in targetted fashion is a way forward. When too broad, nothing actually gets done.

& If having difficulty in targeting even 1 organisation it's a case of admitting to oneself, the reasons for that.

We can't keep saying "yeah this is happening but look over there" in a time when Womens' rights are so much under attack you'd think it was 50 years ago.

Feminism has to be for all women - and mean it.

Many white feminists are doing those things on your list and talking about the issues you raise on this very thread.

What is your advice for the white women who are being assaulted by BAME men?

Many white feminists are doing those things on your list and talking about the issues you raise on this very thread

Are they! Good - although I haven't seen anything about it here

What is your advice for the white women who are being assaulted by BAME men?

Ask White men. They appear to be the winners in all of this. Don't you know what to ask them ?

Bear in mind my response was to a pp who asked me a question.

Essentially none of this is any use because Oxfam workers who abuse non-White women, which is what this is about really, inspires no focus. The response is "yeah but Black men"

Men..all the time.

I CBA further as there's nothing more to say.

What is your advice for the white women who are being assaulted by BAME men?

Report to the police.

Sadly BAME women in many countries can’t report white men to the police.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

If you are a woman who is the victim of sexual assault, you have every right to report it and expect consequences for your attacker. You don't have to think about the skin colour of your attacker or your own skin colour before you do so - you don't have an obligation to anybody but yourself, to do what is best for you!

EXACTLY THIS

@DeeCeeCherry

Many white feminists are doing those things on your list and talking about the issues you raise on this very thread

Are they! Good - although I haven't seen anything about it here

What is your advice for the white women who are being assaulted by BAME men?

Ask White men. They appear to be the winners in all of this. Don't you know what to ask them ?

Bear in mind my response was to a pp who asked me a question.

Essentially none of this is any use because Oxfam workers who abuse non-White women, which is what this is about really, inspires no focus. The response is "yeah but Black men"

Men..all the time.

I CBA further as there's nothing more to say.

This thread is about the literature which states white women should not report crime which was endorsed by Oxfam. Your advice to a white woman who has been assaulted by a BAME male is for them to ask white men?

This thread is about the literature which states white women should not report crime which was endorsed by Oxfam.

Let's not forget Oxfam's motivation here. From the point of view of the white men seeking to abuse women and children, both BAME and white, those who did the most damage to the organisation were white women like Helen Evans and Hannah Clare. They ran the surveys that found widespread abuse, they tried for years to get the Oxfam leadership team to change the culture, and when even the Charity Commission and her MP couldn't help, Helen Evans went public about the issue, later joined by Hannah Clare.

They raised the alarm about a lack of safeguarding in UK-based Oxfam shops that put children at risk, they raised the alarm about serious, including violent, sexual crimes perpetrated by male Oxfam staff against female Oxfam staff, both BAME and white, and about the sexual exploitation and abuse of BAME women and children in relief countries.

These were women who jeopardised their careers and their safety attempting to tackle the issue, but Oxfam's leadership team who still defended their actions after the scandal was already in full swing, were not interested. The toxic atmosphere that made it next to unbearable for women to work there back then is still there now. It has been allowed to fester by the same type of men who signed off on this training manual.

From their perspective, any excuse to blame white women must be welcome. Because at least for Oxfam, they were the source of serious amounts of trouble.