Leaving London - is there a promised land?

[ilkleymoorbartat]

With the mass exodus from London at the moment, aibu to ask whether there is some promised land that people go when they have kids (whatever the location).

Ie, are those of us in London missing out on a life that is lovely and idyllic which if you're in the London bubble it's impossible to imagine?

Do we have Stockholm syndrome basically?!

Ps I grew up in London and worked there for many years and I say with confidence that life is MUCH better elsewhere.

Very interesting to hear from people about all this. There is never a right answer. My parents bought a house not to far from Newcastle centre which was good for work etc. I lived in Manchester and Chester (university and law school) and 3 of my children have been to Bristol U and others other towns. There are lots of towns in the UK and it ie certainly not London or rural Northumberland (my spiritual home).

For me outer London has been the right compromise. It is a minority white borough and has good private schools, several tube lines and yet our house when covid walkers are not tramping up and down our private road it is peaceful and quasi rural, horses go by etc (one man was in my garden this morning briefly with his 2 dogs which strayed in - may be I need to get my hose pipe out to fight invaders off)

Yes. Life is way better after you leave. London is fun for drinking in your twenties but when you’re ready for family life, air that doesn’t make your skin grubby, a decent sized house, schools the kids can walk to, parks where they can leave their scooter and still find it there hours later, and neighbours who chat to you, leave.

I live in London and I have all this stuff.

@bookworm14

Yes. Life is way better after you leave. London is fun for drinking in your twenties but when you’re ready for family life, air that doesn’t make your skin grubby, a decent sized house, schools the kids can walk to, parks where they can leave their scooter and still find it there hours later, and neighbours who chat to you, leave.

I live in London and I have all this stuff.

Me too. Zone 3. And no, we are not wealthy.

It's depressing that people think you can't raise a family in London, like we're all neglectful parents for daring to live here with kids or something!

My son is in an Outstanding primary (10 minute walk), we are surrounded by parks and green space, loads of local activities, plus all that London has to offer. He'll be fine : )

*It's depressing that people think you can't raise a family in London, like we're all neglectful parents for daring to live here with kids or something!

My son is in an Outstanding primary (10 minute walk), we are surrounded by parks and green space, loads of local activities, plus all that London has to offer. He'll be fine : )*

Yes to all this. I am sick of the attitude to London on here. We get it - you hate it and everything it stands for - but can’t you muster up the imagination to realise a lot of people actually love living here? If we stop loving it, we’ll move. I live in zone 2 in a three bedroom maisonette minutes’ walk from some of the best parks in the country. My daughter attends a lovely school where she mixes with people from a vast range of backgrounds. I have access to restaurants of any cuisine I want, excellent transport links, culture, shopping, and a wide range of children’s entertainment. I get on with my neighbours. What’s not to like?

Argh - formatting messed up there. The first two paragraphs are a quote!

Regarding Brixton - not been near for years. It’s been in the news for wrong reasons too many times for comfort over these pandemic times. I understand it’s changed a bit but still a world away from Clapham Common. The local Afro Caribbean food markets were eye opening but put off by the drugs scene and many friends who commented on (sexually implied infringement) behaviour of a few passing locals when lunching in the sun al fresco there. Based on geographic location there is much investment potential if it becomes a gentrified bohemian hipster spot. What happened to that Brixton Pound thing?

Don’t want to make this into an unhelpful and unnecessary where is worst or better in London as each to their own as all of us would be from a diversity of backgrounds and so some will fit into certain established communities better. What makes London unique and interesting is the ethnic make up as you don’t need a passport to explore globally within London with so many BAME majority areas. You don’t get this melting pot outside of London and New York City. It’s a positive thing and should be celebrated as it reflects the historical development of UK over decades and centuries.

In an ideal world a second more substantial family home in the countryside together with a central London base is the best of both worlds. That way you have all the unique attractions and benefits of cosmopolitan busy global London with express touch screen doorstep delivery and proper strength WiFi and then when work is done a relaxed weekend home retreat in a tranquil rural or coastal environment to digitally detox with fresh air and friendly locals that say good morning and have time to be civilised. Manners long lost in London. Poole or New Forest sounds tempting.

In an ideal world a second more substantial family home in the countryside together with a central London base is the best of both worlds. That way you have all the unique attractions and benefits of cosmopolitan busy global London with express touch screen doorstep delivery and proper strength WiFi and then when work is done a relaxed weekend home retreat in a tranquil rural or coastal environment to digitally detox with fresh air and friendly locals that say good morning and have time to be civilised. Manners long lost in London. Poole or New Forest sounds tempting.

That is way out of reach of most people though.

Yes to all this. I am sick of the attitude to London on here. We get it - you hate it and everything it stands for - but can’t you muster up the imagination to realise a lot of people actually love living here?

Not sure who the “you” is in this but lots of us who lived in London for years but have now moved have said to the OP that if she loves it, she should stay.

I don’t think people hate London at all and “everything it stands for” (whatever that means!). They just don’t want to live there, same as some people don’t want to live anywhere else.

I don’t think people hate London at all and “everything it stands for” (whatever that means!). They just don’t want to live there, same as some people don’t want to live anywhere else.

A lot of people absolutely do hate it and have made it very clear on the thread. One poster said she was ‘sorry for anyone who lives here’. I don’t care what anyone thinks of London personally but I am sick of the constant sweeping generalisations on MN about what London life is like, and the failure to grasp that not everyone wants to live exactly the same lifestyle.

We live in one of the Home Counties. The local estate agent said the market in any given year is 30% a Londoners moving out but for the last 18 months it's been over 70%.

I guess it depends on what people want at the end of the day. The reality is that if you aspire to a four-bed detached house then yes, you will have to be very very rich to get that in London (unless you bought years ago and are now very very rich indeed). If you want to have rolling fields then London is not for you. If you are happy to live in a busy city in what Brits consider to be cramped accommodation (i.e. not three/four bed semis/detached) - or are very rich then London is fine. I love it but it's not for everyone especially once you have kids

Yes. Life is way better after you leave. London is fun for drinking in your twenties but when you’re ready for family life, air that doesn’t make your skin grubby, a decent sized house, schools the kids can walk to, parks where they can leave their scooter and still find it there hours later, and neighbours who chat to you, leave.

I live in Zone 3, and my family are out of London, you're far more likely to have a walkable school in London than almost anywhere else, due to the small catchment areas. Scooters - we've left ours and found it later. Never had grubby skin, and our neighbours are lovely, we have each other over for dinner and outside of lock down run a 'play street' and mini street party.

It's not without its challenges, and if I were on minimum wage for example, I'd look to move. But London is not this monolithic urban place, there are lots of ways of living here.

Like Dr Johnson, I'll be tired of London when I'm tired of life! Love it.

@bookworm14

I don’t think people hate London at all and “everything it stands for” (whatever that means!). They just don’t want to live there, same as some people don’t want to live anywhere else.

A lot of people absolutely do hate it and have made it very clear on the thread. One poster said she was ‘sorry for anyone who lives here’. I don’t care what anyone thinks of London personally but I am sick of the constant sweeping generalisations on MN about what London life is like, and the failure to grasp that not everyone wants to live exactly the same lifestyle.

Fair enough if one person on this thread has said that.

But no one has said they hate London and “everything it stands for”, have they? Or did I miss that post?

I live in Coventry, knife/gun crime/gang culture is high here. Feels like a mass exodus in this city. I’m a cov kid but more and more people are moving away from this city now and I don’t blame them.

I know it’s not on the scale of London I was just drawing parallels.

Regarding Brixton - not been near for years. It’s been in the news for wrong reasons too many times for comfort over these pandemic times. I understand it’s changed a bit but still a world away from Clapham Common. The local Afro Caribbean food markets were eye opening but put off by the drugs scene and many friends who commented on (sexually implied infringement) behaviour of a few passing locals when lunching in the sun al fresco there. Based on geographic location there is much investment potential if it becomes a gentrified bohemian hipster spot. What happened to that Brixton Pound thing?

So you don't know anything about Brixton actually, but feel confident trashing it? Okay.

I lived in Brixton for years, the pearl-clutching is quite amusing.

I moved from London to Leeds. Hate every second. Leeds is a good city, but not for me. I miss London every day. People who don’t understand me tend to think of London as Leicester Square and kings cross and ask me how I could miss that. I barely ever went into central London anyway. London is an ‘alpha city’ and there are only 2 more cities like that i the world- New York and Tokyo. There isn’t anything comparable.
I used to live in a beautiful leafy area with so many places to eat, drink and shop. There were 4 bakeries within 15 minute walk, I could get the most amazing bread and pastries and walk to 3 organic supermarkets. The public transport is fantastic. The energy, the anonymity.
London is not a place for people who want space and peace and quiet.
I had been growing tired of London for a few years before I moved. I was looking for a change, ‘better quality lifestyle’, more space, less crowd. Well, I am counting minutes till I move back to London.

@bookworm14

*It's depressing that people think you can't raise a family in London, like we're all neglectful parents for daring to live here with kids or something!

My son is in an Outstanding primary (10 minute walk), we are surrounded by parks and green space, loads of local activities, plus all that London has to offer. He'll be fine : )*

Yes to all this. I am sick of the attitude to London on here. We get it - you hate it and everything it stands for - but can’t you muster up the imagination to realise a lot of people actually love living here? If we stop loving it, we’ll move. I live in zone 2 in a three bedroom maisonette minutes’ walk from some of the best parks in the country. My daughter attends a lovely school where she mixes with people from a vast range of backgrounds. I have access to restaurants of any cuisine I want, excellent transport links, culture, shopping, and a wide range of children’s entertainment. I get on with my neighbours. What’s not to like?

Hear hear!

London is not for everyone obviously, but it's not all a relentless shithole like some people are saying.

I have zero interest in living somewhere where Pizza Express is your night out
Don't contemplate moving north to Horsham @Notstrongandstable

@Allgreyeverything

I moved from London to Leeds. Hate every second. Leeds is a good city, but not for me. I miss London every day. People who don’t understand me tend to think of London as Leicester Square and kings cross and ask me how I could miss that. I barely ever went into central London anyway. London is an ‘alpha city’ and there are only 2 more cities like that i the world- New York and Tokyo. There isn’t anything comparable. I used to live in a beautiful leafy area with so many places to eat, drink and shop. There were 4 bakeries within 15 minute walk, I could get the most amazing bread and pastries and walk to 3 organic supermarkets. The public transport is fantastic. The energy, the anonymity. London is not a place for people who want space and peace and quiet. I had been growing tired of London for a few years before I moved. I was looking for a change, ‘better quality lifestyle’, more space, less crowd. Well, I am counting minutes till I move back to London.

Whereabouts in Leeds do you live? Like in London, some bits are better than others.

Your description of the shops etc that you had in London sounds just like Headingley / Chapel Allerton, which is my new patch.

But no one has said they hate London and “everything it stands for”, have they? Or did I miss that post?

It’s been a common sentiment on MN for years, as well as on Twitter and other social media. London is portrayed either as a filthy, crime-ridden hellhole or as full of rich, elitist snobs who look down their noses at the rest of the country.

Well that's fair enough that you can afford to live in a 'three-bed house with a big garden five minutes walk from a tube station' but the point is that almost no-one can afford this, which is why one option could be to move to another city where they can afford a suitably sized property and still have access to city amenities.

If almost no-one can't afford it, who are all the people living in three-bedroom houses all across London? Yes, it can be a really expensive place to live but it's a sweeping generalisation that everyone is priced out of the capital and I was responding to the poster who said they felt sorry for everyone who lives there, which is extremely patronising.

@bookworm14

But no one has said they hate London and “everything it stands for”, have they? Or did I miss that post?

It’s been a common sentiment on MN for years, as well as on Twitter and other social media. London is portrayed either as a filthy, crime-ridden hellhole or as full of rich, elitist snobs who look down their noses at the rest of the country.

You can’t really complain on here about what people post on Twitter and other social media though. Take it up with posters on those platforms.

Unless I’m misreading posts on here, I haven’t seen any of the sentiments you describe expressed on this thread. I think you’re exaggerating.

@bookworm14

Yes. Life is way better after you leave. London is fun for drinking in your twenties but when you’re ready for family life, air that doesn’t make your skin grubby, a decent sized house, schools the kids can walk to, parks where they can leave their scooter and still find it there hours later, and neighbours who chat to you, leave.

I live in London and I have all this stuff.

Same here, Bookworm14! Such tired generalisations about London being touted on here. My parents live in the Home Counties and we know far more neighbours in our London street than they do and if we lived there my DC would have to be driven to school rather than walk the 20 minutes they do at the moment.