Come Hither to Discuss Something Morbid

[SmidgenofaPigeon]

Please don’t bother with this is you’re offended by musings of the morbid kind. I know some people are. It won’t be everyone’s cup of tea.

If I were to die randomly now, at 25 weeks pregnant, what would they do with my baby? Say I was in a car accident, and was declared brain dead in hospital, would they just keep me alive to grow the baby for longer, then deliver it and give it to my husband, or would that raise all sorts of ethical questions and just be very Gilead? Would he make the final call or would they go ahead and think well we will try to save the baby? Would the baby survive if I was brain dead? And obviously I’d have to stay technically ‘there’ but dead just to keep the baby alive. Which would be horrible. A soap opera must have done this as a storyline at some point. I think there was something like it in the Handmsid’s Tale?

There’s nothing wrong with me I promise. I do just enjoy thinking about morbid things. Like wondering if a chopped off head knows it’s been chopped off, and thinking of all the skeletons behind the walls of Bank tube station. I’ve got some beautiful taxidermy at home because I just like the fact that it’s a thing that was once alive and I can give it a nice home even though it’s dead

I’m sure there are others that have morbid wonderings too.

@SmidgenofaPigeon

And if you were religious (I’m not) you’d possibly want the baby to be with you in the afterlife? But that means the baby would have to die where it could have been saved. If you believed in heaven would you want your baby with you there or leave it on earth?

I'm religious - when I die, I want my little boy to live his whole, full life before coming to join me (if I get into heaven). I'd think the same about a baby.

Fascinating question, I don’t know the answer though!

Also I don’t want to derail, but why are there skeletons behind a wall at Bank? @SmidgenofaPigeon

@Namechangedandoverwhelmed it’s basically been built through/on top of a massive plague pit.

@justfuckoffthelottayer

Ok can some people in the know answer these questions I now need to know. Consultants/nurses do you have to judge each situation individually and dependent on injuries etc or is there actually a policy on this. Lawyers/social workers what about the single mum dies scenario would her family get baby or blood father or would it go into care until assessments are made?

Hello, I am not a lawyer or social worker but in the scenario where a mother sadly dies during/s shortly after birth, the presumption would be that another person with parental rights would care for the baby (so, usually, the baby's father, although it may be possible for the mother's partner who isn't the biological father of the baby to apply for parental rights, e.g. in the case of a same-sex couple a mother's female partner can apply to be recognized as a second parent).

If the father/agreed preferred that the baby be brought up by someone else e.g. grandparents or aunts/uncles, this could be arranged as 'kinship' foster care and/or a special guardianship arrangements (google these for more info). If the father wasn't around or concerns were raised by social workers, hospital staff or family that he wasn't able to look after baby or the mother wouldn't have wanted him to have child, any other concerns/disputes really, SS would have to look into these and ultimately if no agreement was reached court would have to decide what was in baby's best interests, but it's unlikely baby would be taken into foster care in the meantime, it's likely either the father or another family member would be asked to look after them temporarily while assessments were made. Foster care, aside from being bad for the baby to be taken away from family, is v expensive for the local authority so they usually try and place baby with family or friends if it's safe to do so...

I’m morbidly fascinated by the decapitation question since I inadvertently saw a video of a woman having her head sawn off. It was utterly, utterly horrific and more so because I think you could tell that she knew and her eyes moved to look at the man who did it. Apparently, the brain does remain conscious for some time after being severed from a body, so yes, you’d know!

From a pre hospital point of view we are not allowed to recognise life extinct on an obviously pregnant person (unless in very limited, specific and obvious circumstances) so we would continue resuscitation and transport to hospital.

It would then depend on individual circumstances as to whether an immediate emergency cesarean was done in resus or later. The heart would need to be restarted in order to be put on a ventilator so if Resus isn’t successful in doing that the baby would need to be delivered. I don’t think they’d use bypass but not sure.

There have been very few cases where this has happened - it's incredibly rare. A brain dead person can't properly regulate their hormone balance, temperature, blood sugar or metabolism, and is at great risk of blood clots. It would be so unlikely to lead to a healthy birth outcome - if you were to die they'd try to deliver your 25-weeker immediately, but they wouldn't keep you alive to try to incubate it.

@MinnieMountain

Doesn’t Catholicism say that an unbaptised baby goes into limbo? So if you were catholic and the baby died with you it wouldn’t join you in heaven.

That was pure theorizing only, it's not scripture, and it's now thankfully been removed from teachings.

www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-limbo-idUSL2028721620070420

I should clarify that.....to be put on and kept on a ventilator for a prolonged period. Obviously patients are also ventilated during ongoing resuscitation too but a person with no cardiac output can’t be put on long term life support. At least I don’t think so. They'd have to have some way of continuing chest compressions or use bypass which I don’t think they do.

I'm sure there has been at least one baby born during the pandemic where the mother was kept alive until the baby could be delivered. I'll post a link if I can find it.

@SmidgenofaPigeon I'm curious as to why you would object to being an incubator for your baby? And why you think it's morally wrong?

Personally I'd like to do the only thing I could now for my baby and give it all I could before I died. I can't think of anything more morally right myself.

OP, there an amazing Stephen King novella called The Breathing Method that I think you’d like. It’s part of the Different Seasons collection, along with The Body (novella that Stand By Me was based on), Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption, and Apt Pupil. All also terrific.

I read it every Christmas Eve

@SmidgenofaPigeon how gruesome 😳

@AlmostSummer21 I don’t personally think it’s morally wrong per se, I wouldn’t want my baby to die just because I was going go to- but I’m more wondering if it would raise ethical questions like is a woman simply a womb with the purpose of delivering a baby- like until that’s done she can’t die with dignity or have family say goodbye or have a funeral or things like that. It’d surely throw up a few of those questions.

@VodselForDinner I’ll definitely be checking those out

[quote SmidgenofaPigeon]@Namechangedandoverwhelmed it’s basically been built through/on top of a massive plague pit.[/quote]
majority of london is built on burial sites, it's due to the compaction of bones that some of the tube lines are curved the way they are as it was deemed too difficult to navigate through them.

The case I thought of as soon as I read your OP has already been mentioned upthread. If you really want to know horror in this way look up what happened to women in the Republic up until repeal and what happens now in Northern Ireland.

@SheldonesqueTheBstard

I know I’m missing the point but I too wonder about the basket view like venividi …

How would you ever have known? Unless you winked or poked your tongue out over the basket and got a wink or tongue in response?

I've wondered about this question too, and have ultimately concluded that the massive drop in blood pressure would probably cause near immediate unconsciousness.

56 years ago my dad was told that either I or my mother would not survive and to pick one. Cant imagine that they have changed doing this. (We both survived).

I don't think they can keep you artificially alive for weeks and weeks if you're fully brain dead. Things like your immune system cease to function and your organs start to fail. If the baby was viable they would get it out as soon as possible. If it wasn't very close to viability I think they would just have to switch you off eventually and a live baby wouldn't be possible.

@MinnieMountain

Doesn’t Catholicism say that an unbaptised baby goes into limbo? So if you were catholic and the baby died with you it wouldn’t join you in heaven.

This is why I think religion is stupid

@Babygotblueyes

56 years ago my dad was told that either I or my mother would not survive and to pick one. Cant imagine that they have changed doing this. (We both survived).

Who did he pick?

@MinnieMountain

Doesn’t Catholicism say that an unbaptised baby goes into limbo? So if you were catholic and the baby died with you it wouldn’t join you in heaven.

No it doesn't. Limbo has never been an official doctrine.

That’s one of those ancient religious things isn’t it, from the Middle Ages, about the poor limbo babies. I guess there must still be some belief in it to an extent though, because if you’re religious you get your baby Christened/baptised? I presume that’s partly still so they go to heaven if you believe in it?

I imagine the scenarios where you’re sufficiently unwell to be in that state, but sufficiently well to be kept alive and continue to keep the baby alive are so few, there would be very few examples.

In theory though, I’d hope they’d do whatever was the best course of action to keep my baby alive,

@purplesequins

what I find absolutely fascinating is that giving birth is a 'reflex' and can happen subconciously. women who are quadiplegic have been known to give birth vaginally. there are also cases where the mother was in a coma and gave birth.

I had a precipitous labour and I didn’t even have to push, I thought my contractions were just starting but the baby just came out on her own!