Come Hither to Discuss Something Morbid

[SmidgenofaPigeon]

Please don’t bother with this is you’re offended by musings of the morbid kind. I know some people are. It won’t be everyone’s cup of tea.

If I were to die randomly now, at 25 weeks pregnant, what would they do with my baby? Say I was in a car accident, and was declared brain dead in hospital, would they just keep me alive to grow the baby for longer, then deliver it and give it to my husband, or would that raise all sorts of ethical questions and just be very Gilead? Would he make the final call or would they go ahead and think well we will try to save the baby? Would the baby survive if I was brain dead? And obviously I’d have to stay technically ‘there’ but dead just to keep the baby alive. Which would be horrible. A soap opera must have done this as a storyline at some point. I think there was something like it in the Handmsid’s Tale?

There’s nothing wrong with me I promise. I do just enjoy thinking about morbid things. Like wondering if a chopped off head knows it’s been chopped off, and thinking of all the skeletons behind the walls of Bank tube station. I’ve got some beautiful taxidermy at home because I just like the fact that it’s a thing that was once alive and I can give it a nice home even though it’s dead

I’m sure there are others that have morbid wonderings too.

I did a quick Google and there are lots of stories of this very situation happening, including twins whose mother died at just nine weeks pregnant and was kept alive until they could be delivered. They both survived.

I guess they just go on a case by case basis and try to balance how viable the pregnancy is with the wishes of the father.

If there is no father in the picture, could other family, grandparents etc, lay claim to the child I wonder?

I know I’m missing the point but I too wonder about the basket view like venividi …

How would you ever have known? Unless you winked or poked your tongue out over the basket and got a wink or tongue in response?

what I find absolutely fascinating is that giving birth is a 'reflex' and can happen subconciously.
women who are quadiplegic have been known to give birth vaginally. there are also cases where the mother was in a coma and gave birth.

Fascinating. That article is horrifying!

I didn’t consider the fact that essentially, you’d start to rot away. When someone is kept alive in a soap or in a coma on a film they obviously just look like they’re having a nice sleep, and someone brushes their hair for them etc.

I had no idea this had been attempted with early pregnancies. If it was to happen I assumed it’d only come into play from the ‘viable’ baby point at 24 weeks.

Yes there’s the Victorian coffin birth phenomenon too @purplesequins where the fétus has been involuntarily expelled through muscle spasms after death.

I dont think its morally wrong to keep the mother going. I imagine she'd want her baby to have a chance at living. If that were me I'd want the baby to stay in as long as necessary.

@SmidgenofaPigeon

Yes there’s the Victorian coffin birth phenomenon too *@purplesequins* where the fétus has been involuntarily expelled through muscle spasms after death.

No way! That’s blown my mind.

Doesn’t Catholicism say that an unbaptised baby goes into limbo? So if you were catholic and the baby died with you it wouldn’t join you in heaven.

Wasn’t there a case very recently of a pregnant mother who had Covid being kept alive for the baby’s sake?

I have worked in a department where this did happen.
I can't remember how many weeks the baby was, but mum was ventilated until the baby was mature enough. A C section was carried out, and the baby was delivered alive and well.

@MinnieMountain

Doesn’t Catholicism say that an unbaptised baby goes into limbo? So if you were catholic and the baby died with you it wouldn’t join you in heaven.

That'd be a fair cruel god

They would perform a peri-mortem C-section (I've seen one, they're pretty slash and grab as speed and time are of the essence!) to relieve some of the stress on your body as it is trying to pump enough blood to keep you and baby alive. Baby would be resuscitated where possible and at that gestation taken to the NICU, then they would continue to work on you.

@3AndStopping

Wasn’t there a case very recently of a pregnant mother who had Covid being kept alive for the baby’s sake?

There was a baby delivered by cs to a mother who was put into a coma due to covid but the mother recovered.

coma is different to brain death.
a person in a coma has usually enough basic brain function to not rot with proper care.
very different to losing brain function alltogether.

@DowntownFrown I remember hearing about that case, and similar ones in the US. Very sad.

@Chiwi

I think things similar to this have happened in real life. Radio 4 do a series called inside the ethics committee, there is a reasonably old episode about a pregnant woman on life support. It's a great program that discusses the ethics in real medical cases.

I loved that series. Have listened to them all. Huge shame they don't make them anymore. I am sure the pandemic would have thrown up a lot to explore.

@purplesequins I see- but as a result of the coma you could be brain dead? So I guess you’d be ‘ok’ (as in, superficially alive) unless your brain died?

I think it should be on a case by case basis but I'd hope they'd try to save the baby where they could.

Realistically, they are more likely to save a baby that is past or approaching viability, than a 5wo embryo, but I don't think there should be a hard cut off point. Some people remain brain dead but don't deteriorate as such for a very long time (like 20 years), others may struggle with a very short period.

For me personally, I'd like them to save my baby if I was going to die, regardless of gestation (though I appreciate they probably wouldn't in the first trimester) but without family views to the contrary, my gut feeling would be to attempt it from about 20 weeks.

[quote SmidgenofaPigeon]@purplesequins I see- but as a result of the coma you could be brain dead? So I guess you’d be ‘ok’ (as in, superficially alive) unless your brain died?[/quote]
yes that can happen.
a person in a coma can die from their injuries or a heart attack/stroke.
or the kidneys/liver can pack up and lead to death.

Well, I’m an atheist @AryaStarkWolf But a quick search just now has told me that the Vatican effectively did away with limbo in 2007. So that’s ok.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/hope-grows-for-crash-mother-s-unborn-baby-1614532.html%3famp

Yeah it happened not far from where I lived

I didn’t consider the fact that essentially, you’d start to rot away. When someone is kept alive in a soap or in a coma on a film they obviously just look like they’re having a nice sleep, and someone brushes their hair for them etc.

You don't rot away @SmidgenofaPigeon. The longest anyone has ever been kept on life support when brain dead (rather than in a persistent vegetative state) is 20 years.

The woman in the link a PP posted had an infected open wound, so a specific situation. It is a horrific story where doctors couldn't turn off her life support even though the baby couldn't survive because of the abortion laws.

Ah ok @chesirecat99. that makes sense. That poor woman.

@LadyFlossieParkingson

Interesting

Re religion- I am religious and practicing catholic
I would want the babies life preserved and would expect the medical team to do all theu could to save baby if i was absolutely not going to survive

Same here. Bit I've I have had such a severe injury that I'm brain dead. I would think the baby would have also had a massive insult as well. And be unlikely to survive long.

It'd be judged entirely on each individual basis. Babies have zero rights so there would be no immediate focus on saving the baby. There would be an initial assessment on the woman and if the doctors thought there was a chance she could recover then she'd be put on life support and the baby monitored. If there was zero chance of her surviving then they'd probably deliver the baby if it was viable, but they wouldn't keep a woman alive purely for the baby's sake. Of course it's not as cut and dry as that though and there are many factors to consider.