Holidays - Here we don’t...

[DadAManger]

We are back to where we always feared we would be (again). No more holidays in Portugal. The rest of the green list is a washout, where we aren’t welcome in Singapore or Australia anyway. Now we have a new `Vietnam Variant’ and new “Nepal Variant’ - and we kept the air border with India opened far too long and now we have a spike. Where on earth do we go from here? Skegness again.

Is the Government being reasonable?

If the NHS had been better managed, it wouldn't always be in such a fragile positions. But given the mandate given to the tories, the. NHS will probably be quietly and gradually privitized by the next election.

Well imagine being on an island where a variant is running around, but personally being mostly protected yourself being of having had 2 vaccines.

What dickhead thinks 'I know, I shall try to bring this disease to foreign lands and unprotected citizens there like my colonising ancestors did so many times! For some sunshine innit'.

@Moomin12345

That is a ridiculous comment - if you think the government are doing this to keep money in the UK - dont you think the UK will be affected by the travel companies and airlines and the airport revenue collapsing ? the people made redundant in all the associated companies ? We will lose out massively financially .

If you want to make a political point at least work it out .

@Moomin12345

If the NHS had been better managed, it wouldn't always be in such a fragile positions. But given the mandate given to the tories, the. NHS will probably be quietly and gradually privitized by the next election.

Can't argue with that. Our NHS was in no fit state to handle a pandemic because it was already in crisis before Covid arrived. That's why hospital Dr dh wants us to go abroad anyway, he doesn't trust a bloody thing this Government does anymore, and he's sick of them shitting all over him and his colleagues.

It’s not about odds of survival. It’s about making sure the NHS isn’t overwhelmed - hopefully the vaccine will ensure that it isn’t but we have to tread a bit carefully for now

As I see it the problem is "treading carefully", not being "overwhelmed" is fine in theory but is undefined.... AFAIK unlike some other governments in other countries HMG have not published any objective criteria which the general public can ascertain how overwhelmed or not the NHS actually is.

For example some countries have used the percentage ICU occupancy as a an indicator as to whether lockdowns/curfews/travel restrictions should be eased or made stricter...

I genuinely don't understand the argument that the government are doing all this for political reasons, to keep us all in the UK or whatever.

The restrictions are very unpopular, which is not great for people in power.

People may spend their holiday money in the UK but the travel industry as a whole will go bust, that will cost much more money than whatever is gained.

We lose all the foreign tourist money, foreign tourists tend to spend more.

I mean it literally makes no sense that the government would be doing this to make more money.

Still the flights are landing numerous times daily from India and I’m sure some are travelling via other countries to avoid enforced quarantine.

Put shortly - I sympathise with why people want to travel abroad but I am not prepared to have domestic restrictions in place as a result of international travel.

But SlipperyDippery can't you see that this has been the issue all along? Sport is "essential" (but not theatre or music), "business" is essential. While most of Britain has been shut down over and over, people have continued to pop in and out of the UK for a variety of reasons, merrily bringing infection with them.

I have complied with all the rules all the way along but I'm well beyond the point of having had enough. If we can't go abroad fair enough. But STOP people coming to the UK! There was something in the Guardian the other day about people flying in for job interviews. WHY?! The huge organisation I work for has been conducting all job interviews via Skype and Teams for a year. How much of this "essential business" is necessary?

we have to tread a bit carefully for now to ensure that the easing of domestic restrictions isn’t jeopardised

Tread a bit carefully =/= throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It's the latter that we seem to be doing, not only regarding holidays, but access to other NHS services, children's education etc.

Let's just take advantage of the Stanley Johnson loophole and book a viewing of a holiday home that we're planning to buy or maintain abroad as that's apparently a valid reason for foreign travel

I've also seen a photo of chuffed Grove on a plane from Portugal. Yup, the government are super serious about our welfare.

To answer your question. We'll spend our savings in the uk in pubs as we try to wash the depression away with booze. Holidays in the uk are also more expensive. There are so many activities that will splash into on here because of not being able to spend this money on a foreign holiday.

*we'll splash on

"... the longer these wild handbrake turns in policy go on, the less travel companies, airlines, operators and hotels there will be? It won't be a case of 'holding on for next year' - the options for reasonably priced travel just will not exist next year. There won't be multiple flights a day from your local airport, or accommodation to suit all budgets, or tour providers or transfer operators. There won't be restaurants or bars or attractions to enjoy in places that rely heavily on tourism.

Just being honest and decisive and closing everything until 2022 / 2023 with proper industry support might save some businesses who could then hunker down and mothball themselves to a degree, but to keep us in a constant cycle of hope and despair, sales and then refunds, paying for marketing and then having to pull it, buying in stock and then watching it rot, hiring staff and then laying them off, scheduling routes and then cancelling them, getting dormant aircraft ready to fly and then not going (and many other knock on effects) is destroying the travel industry beyond all repair.

^This. In bucketfuls.

Enjoy your camping in Skegness, and get yourself some decent camping kit because the travel industry is sinking. You'll be going on holiday at home for years if there is no travel industry left, or what there is is too expensive for the average family.

My airline is scrapping aircraft - sending them to the desert to break them up. 35 of them in the last year. Those aircraft won't be coming back. The pilots who flew them are grounded and will need considerable retraining onto other fleets (which don't have any need for them currently) before they are able to fly again, if they ever fly again. The airlines are spending millions getting pilots and planes back ready to fly, only for the government to change the goalposts again after a couple of weeks. There has been no aid to the UK aviation sector, but other countries have funded the long-term standing down of their airlines with government aid. When the world starts going on holiday again, it will be with foreign airlines because by their 'handbrake turns' on policy (great way of describing it) the UK government is killing it's own aviation industry.

But hey, stay safe, and let's hope there's something left when the dust settles, eh?

@Yondergoat

Put shortly - I sympathise with why people want to travel abroad but I am not prepared to have domestic restrictions in place as a result of international travel.

But SlipperyDippery can't you see that this has been the issue all along? Sport is "essential" (but not theatre or music), "business" is essential. While most of Britain has been shut down over and over, people have continued to pop in and out of the UK for a variety of reasons, merrily bringing infection with them.

I have complied with all the rules all the way along but I'm well beyond the point of having had enough. If we can't go abroad fair enough. But STOP people coming to the UK! There was something in the Guardian the other day about people flying in for job interviews. WHY?! The huge organisation I work for has been conducting all job interviews via Skype and Teams for a year. How much of this "essential business" is necessary?

I don’t disagree with you at all. No one should be coming to the UK for non-essential reasons.

Domestic opening up has to be the priority.

We are not 'letting anyone in'. I work in inbound tourism and it is decimated. It's pretty much impossible for anyone to visit the UK for a holiday and there are thousands of people who depend on inbound tourism - people working in hotels, restaurants, attractions, galleries, museums, who work with student groups etc.

It goes beyond the travel industry for people wanting to leave the UK. Both inbound and outbound travel is at a standstill and many people are suffering financially and mentally.

I've nothing constructive to add other than I've never been on holiday, and was hoping to go on my first this year. Not looking likely now and I've well and truly had enough

There was something in the Guardian the other day about people flying in for job interviews.

@Yondergoat, can you please link to that story? I searched but didn't find.

I've absolutely no plans to travel anywhere out of the UK (and to be honest, I'm not planning a massive road trip here, either!) because I think it is unrealistic to expect holiday plans to go unfucked up this year. I'm also underwhelmed by anyone who assumes they are automatically entitled to use the rest of the world as their own personal theme park during a pandemic.

However, there's no doubt that the constant set of seemingly inconsistent and reularly changing restrictions on travel are no help at all. Just announce that there will be no holidays out of the UK until summer 2022 and at the same time, introduce some sort of scheme that protects jobs in the travel industry.

No one should be coming to the UK for non-essential reasons.

And........

We are not 'letting anyone in'. I work in inbound tourism and it is decimated.

I also used to fly holiday makers around. These days I’m flying PPE, medical supplies, perishable foods, etc around. I do fly to places like India, South Africa, Brazil, etc, and we don’t get off the aircraft, we fly there and back in one duty, which is knackering and probably not safe long term. We fly very few passengers. I am off to the Caribbean next week, but I’ll be carrying out people who need to travel - last time I went there we carried marine scientists, boat engineers, a family attending a funeral. More recently we’ve been carrying relief workers and supplies for islands affected by the volcanic eruption.

I say it several times a week - there are almost no holiday makers out there flying around. Some will slip through the net, but most people aren’t even bothering to try. There is almost no tourism atm, and it is crippling an industry that supports hundreds of thousands of people in the U.K. But what do I know compared to someone who read an article on the internet once and is certain they know better?

@lljkk

There was something in the Guardian the other day about people flying in for job interviews.

@Yondergoat, can you please link to that story? I searched but didn't find.

That was probably the story about EU nationals being detained at the border even though it is legal for them to come for job interviews.

Job interviews are arguably essential (employers need to hire people), certainly more essential than holidays.

We were meant to come home to the UK to visit family next month. It’s looking increasingly unlikely. I’ve now missed seeing two very close relatives before they died (neither was COVID related) and that’s something I will regret forever. COVID is never completely going away, we will just need to manage it. If you’re double vaccinated you’re at much lower risk. The vaccine record could just be used alongside the passport.

@backinthebox

No one should be coming to the UK for non-essential reasons.

And........

We are not 'letting anyone in'. I work in inbound tourism and it is decimated.

I also used to fly holiday makers around. These days I’m flying PPE, medical supplies, perishable foods, etc around. I do fly to places like India, South Africa, Brazil, etc, and we don’t get off the aircraft, we fly there and back in one duty, which is knackering and probably not safe long term. We fly very few passengers. I am off to the Caribbean next week, but I’ll be carrying out people who need to travel - last time I went there we carried marine scientists, boat engineers, a family attending a funeral. More recently we’ve been carrying relief workers and supplies for islands affected by the volcanic eruption.

I say it several times a week - there are almost no holiday makers out there flying around. Some will slip through the net, but most people aren’t even bothering to try. There is almost no tourism atm, and it is crippling an industry that supports hundreds of thousands of people in the U.K. But what do I know compared to someone who read an article on the internet once and is certain they know better?

Is that aimed at me? Because if so where did I say there were loads of holiday makers flying around?

I said I supported the closing of borders for non-essential reasons, unless it can be said it doesn’t increase the risk of not being able to open up domestically. I acknowledged the impact on the tourism industry, as well as the impact of those wanting to go abroad. I’m not sure I mentioned how many “holiday makers” are out there flying around at all, just that I support not allowing non-essential travel?

@vegas888

Still the flights are landing numerous times daily from India

Many of which (especially BA's) are carrying freight only, freight such as PPE and other medical supplies (India is a big exporter of such ).

As Backinthebox as pointed out many of those still employed in aviation are hanging onto a living/keeping their companies afloat by working their backsides off and putting in some very long and anti social shifts bringing essentials into the country by air.

Problem is that work is pretty much invisible to the general public...I'm just guessing it does grind the gears a bit of those still gainfully employed in aviation when some people look at flight tracking websites, airport websites or believe anecdata and then start grumbling about al the flight coming in without realising what is often being carried.

I don’t think freight flights are listed on the flight arrivals at Heathrow.

There were 6 arrivals from India today, BA x 2, Virgin Atlantic, Air India x 2 and Vistara, surely not all freight?