to think it's a bit mean to not tell children whether or not they've been successful?

[Thefifthbeatle]

DD (7) is very musical. She recently auditioned to become a chorister at the cathedral in our city. I wasn't sure whether it was a good idea for a 7 year old to be doing auditions - it seemed like quite a lot of pressure - but a note came home from school about it, so we took her along to the open day and she absolutely loved it, and we went ahead with it.

The audition was almost three weeks ago; we haven't heard anything yet. One of DD's friends heard in the middle of last week that she has been offered a place, so it seems likely that DD hasn't. I wondered whether perhaps an email had been lost along the way somewhere, so emailed them a couple of days ago to check, but they are not responding. I now don't know what to say to DD. The evidence suggests that she hasn't got a place, and although we've tried very hard to keep everything very casual, she has been asking every day whether they've decided yet, and is going to be pretty upset, because she really wanted to do it. Do we wait a week to check whether they do eventually come back to us to confirm? If they don't respond, do we wait 2 weeks? 3?

I can't help feeling that it's a bit mean to put 7 year olds in this position; they aren't adults, applying for jobs. They are still pretty young kids and it isn't really fair to not tell them at all whether or not they've got in, and just leave us to decide when the level of rudeness involved is so great that they must have not got a place. Is it just me? And in this situation, how long would you wait before deciding that the answer must be no, and telling your DC?

A violent overreaction.

tbf a violent overreaction might be setting fire to some straw dolls at the altar cackling loudly in front of the new choir of children, or even what happened at Nantes cathedral. The lengths people go to for their children is extreme. But I don't think OP has gone into violent category yet.

Please do not tell her she's on the reserve list! Good lord, that is setting a child up for unhappiness and failure. Children need to learn that to be truly good at things takes hard work. If she wasn't good enough this time, she can work on things and be better next time. Or she can look for something else she enjoys doing.

Hopefully she's in anyway, and it just takes time to complete their processes.

They are probably waiting till they get acceptance from the children theyve offered places to and you will hear eventually. Maybe the person in charge is on holiday. You just need to be patient and teĺ DD they havent decided yet. You could say its not looking hopeful. Because it isnt

@cosima8

I’m sorry to hear if this OP and it’s hard but it is life. Round here, children sit full on exams at 6/7 for selective entry to prep schools. The pressure is immense. Some may do 5 separate exams and interviews and get no offers. It’s the same if your child want to get into a particular sport team, etc. I just said to mine, that life is about how you deal with the knockbacks. There still be more knockbacks than successes, but at least you put yourself out there and when a success does come, the knockbacks make it all the more special. It’s hard to grasp at 7 though, I know. But presumably she can try again? Also, there must be other choirs?

My DC school had a choir that was a huge deal. They all had to audition - it was not optional Some got in, some didn’t. It caused significant much stress for some kids and the parents went mad.

What nonsense.

Naomi Osaka has pulled out of the French Open because there was a complete refusal to make any kind of allowances or compromise to consider the feelings of the ACTUAL HUMAN involved in the process.

The people shouldn't learn to deal with it, it is not 'just life', it is a construct made by society that is not fit for purpose. Modify the system, not the humans.

Anyone working with children should be more considerate, end of story.

Can you go in person? That’s what I would do in your position. Obvs without your DD

@Ozanj

Can you go in person? That’s what I would do in your position. Obvs without your DD

Another terrible suggestion. This is probably why communication has been delayed - they're dealing with a barrage of pushy parents.

It is poor of them not to tell you. Give it another week because oh half term. Then call them again. If no reply again, break the news to your daughter.

My dds have done many dance auditions over the years and sometimes there has been a long wait for results.

OP I’m sure they will let you know eventually, it just takes time. In the meantime tell your dd you haven’t heard yet, they’ve got a lot to get through and it might take a bit longer. Then distract her if she asks again.

Really crappy. Takes next to no time to draft a nice letter, do a mail merge, and post them out. Even if deliberations are still ongoing a holding email saying ‘sorry for the delay you can expect to hear from us shortly’ can be sent. It’s really very easy.

I’d ring them and ask.

If she’s not got in, there may be other robed choirs in local churches that are similar - it’s worth checking as they can be great musically and less commitment than a cathedral.

Also do look at National Youth Choir of Great Britain when she’s a bit older (Y5). They do two residentials a year (Covid permitting) and its music all week - my dd loved it.

“What nonsense.

Naomi Osaka has pulled out of the French Open because there was a complete refusal to make any kind of allowances or compromise to consider the feelings of the ACTUAL HUMAN involved in the process.

The people shouldn't learn to deal with it, it is not 'just life', it is a construct made by society that is not fit for purpose. Modify the system, not the humans.”

Of course you have to learn with failure. When I was in ballet, you would probably do 20 auditions before you got a whiff of anything.

Anyone had a child applying for uni this year? My DS has friends who have AAAA at A-level and have applied to 5 unis through UCAS and have received NO OFFERS. Try going through the Oxbridge process - the difference between those accepted and those not is wafer-thin, but what can you do? Unis this year have kept students waiting from September to May - yes, 8 MONTHS - only to reject them with a one-line email. No it’s not right and it’s not fair, but it’s still happening to thousands of young people - and since when was life fair?

You have to teach them that when one door closes, it often makes no sense, but can also mean there is something better waiting around the next corner and other doors can open.

Yes it is rubbish of them. And I know this probably sounds like sour grapes, but I wouldn't want my children in an environment where their feelings are so ignored. Choristers often look exhausted on TV and I see them and wonder if they have been kept for hours at rehearsals when they should be out riding their bikes and having fun.

Make sure she does something else to foster her love of singing to show her there's never just one way to thrive at what we enjoy.

When my 7 year old tried out for a football team he thought of nothing else until he heard he had got in - he was so nervous. It's rude to do this to adults and VERY RUDE to chidlren.

I would write a stern email personally.

Laughing at the ludicrous reply about 6 year olds sitting multiple exams.

I would write a stern email personally.

I think this is a terrible idea. What if the DD is on a maybe pile? She'll swiftly go to the bin.

Oh god I hate this, and it’s all too common.

It’s like this with dc sport. We know there’s a comp, but they don’t say if you haven’t been selected for the team. So it’s all bloody speculation until nearly the week they go sometimes.

Why not publish a list of successful kids on the website, or a notice on the cathedral notice board or something, if the can’t send out a general email for whatever reason.

Better to know you haven’t made it than hang around hopefully, and sometimes turn other opportunities down…

The thing is they'd save themselves a lot of work by responding to all auditionees sooner rather than later. Otherwise they're bound to get lots of parents, in various stages of irritation, on the phone wanting to know why their child hasn't heard back. And that invariably takes up more time than sending out a kindly 'thanks but no thanks' letter or email.

I work in a job where adults audition for a thing and then wait on tenterhooks to hear back. I'd never keep someone hanging on for three weeks. Especially a 7 year old.

It’s incredibly rude, if they were going to send out early offers and wait for responses they could easily have informed you of the dates so you knew what to expect. I hate even when companies do this to adults, it’s so disrespectful when someone has taken the time and energy to apply for something to not even send a blanket rejection email or give them a date by which they should give up. There’s no excuse that justifies it in my opinion.

I don't think you should give up hope just yet; yes, they probably could have told you that there was a certain date to tell you. But realistically, there have been end of term things, bank holidays, half term, etc, and there are many reasons why they might not have heard back from many of the people that were offered a place. It's a huge decision for people, who might have gone along - as you did - more out of interest than serious consideration at first - and they then have to decide whether to disrupt schooling, music lessons, family life, finances etc to take up the opportunity. That will take longer than a week in some cases - no matter how sought after the places are. They might well expect to be waiting for a while before they can offer additional places. Or maybe they expect to know if a few days and will then let you know right away, perhaps in the hopes you wouldn't know you were on a reserve list. Etc. In other words, various explanations about why you've not heard back, with the most obvious one being the people in charge are on holiday for half term. Yes they could have thought it through better and written some emails in advance, or had ways of checking on half term, but I don't think it's unforgivable that they didn't. If you don't have any kind of reply by the end of next week, then I might try ringing or emailing again. But I'd give them a bit longer first.

Given that it's a cathedral, it's not particularly Christian I would have thought.

My DCs were cathedral choristers and I have to say that it was the least christian place populated by some of the most unpleasant people I have ever met. The attitude seemed to be that as they were working in a church they could do no wrong.....

What you could do OP is drop an email to them or call the music director's/organists secretary in a cheery way along the lines of - I realise that it must be a very busy time for you going through the audition process. I am assuming that DD hasn't got in as we haven't heard back from you but it would be really helpful to know where we stand as she was so keen on the choir that, if it is a no we'd like to be able to let her know, rather than keeping her hopes up. You could also ask if they could recommend a good local church choir with an active children's section that she might enjoy cathedral organists are usually pretty knowledgeable about what is happening chorally in the diocese.

Assuming it is a no keep it very matter of fact - if I had a pound for the musical rejections my DC have had over the years I'd be a very wealthy woman by now - this is what works IME. Tell her that it is OK to be disappointed but that you were very proud of the way she rose to the audition etc. Explain that sometimes there just are people who can run faster/sing better/draw well and that if we all had the same talents it would be a very boring world. Then sit down and have a chat with her about what it was about the choir that attracted her and how you could achieve this for her in a different way - another choir, an orchestra/music group etc. If you're in my vicinity and you PM me I could make some suggestions.

Great advice above but I would change this
Explain that sometimes there just are people who can run faster/sing better/draw well

• explain that there were other girls who performed better on the day. Don't make it an absolute as that doesn't help her to grow from feedback.

hadn't considered this as an outcome I'd have to help her deal with.

The most useful thing would be to help her manager her own emotions around this, starting with you own. Decide what line to take and stick with it.

If you start to tense up about how 'rude' the decision makers are being, she will consciously or unconsciously pick up on that.

If you show yourself to be sanguine, and time she asks say well we will just have to see about that and then distract with something that is currently more useful it would be much easier for her to cope with whatever happens.

As a PP has already said, resilience is one of the best skills you can hand on. This is a brilliant opportunity to help build her resilience by showing that either outcome will be just fine. And meaning it.

Good luck.

My 8 yo DD has often had to wait 3 months for audition decisions. It is stressful and nerve-wracking but something you accept when going into the process. View it as character building rather than getting all offended about it. Use it as a way to teach your DD patience, humility and resilience. Even better, show those qualities yourself and your DD will learn from you.

It seems from the replies on here that there are a lot of mums whom this kind of thing causes stress for, I hope your children dont feel that they are causing you stress or that they would disappoint if they didn't get in/picked because i bet they would find that more upsetting than whether they got to do whatever it was anyway.

@Londonmummy66

Given that it's a cathedral, it's not particularly Christian I would have thought.

My DCs were cathedral choristers and I have to say that it was the least christian place populated by some of the most unpleasant people I have ever met. The attitude seemed to be that as they were working in a church they could do no wrong.....

What you could do OP is drop an email to them or call the music director's/organists secretary in a cheery way along the lines of - I realise that it must be a very busy time for you going through the audition process. I am assuming that DD hasn't got in as we haven't heard back from you but it would be really helpful to know where we stand as she was so keen on the choir that, if it is a no we'd like to be able to let her know, rather than keeping her hopes up. You could also ask if they could recommend a good local church choir with an active children's section that she might enjoy cathedral organists are usually pretty knowledgeable about what is happening chorally in the diocese.

Assuming it is a no keep it very matter of fact - if I had a pound for the musical rejections my DC have had over the years I'd be a very wealthy woman by now - this is what works IME. Tell her that it is OK to be disappointed but that you were very proud of the way she rose to the audition etc. Explain that sometimes there just are people who can run faster/sing better/draw well and that if we all had the same talents it would be a very boring world. Then sit down and have a chat with her about what it was about the choir that attracted her and how you could achieve this for her in a different way - another choir, an orchestra/music group etc. If you're in my vicinity and you PM me I could make some suggestions.

Spot on advice above.

But yes very poor manners and actually I would be questioning how they work with seven year olds when they are in the choir if they cannot respond to the interview / audition process in a reasonable time.