to think it's a bit mean to not tell children whether or not they've been successful?

[Thefifthbeatle]

DD (7) is very musical. She recently auditioned to become a chorister at the cathedral in our city. I wasn't sure whether it was a good idea for a 7 year old to be doing auditions - it seemed like quite a lot of pressure - but a note came home from school about it, so we took her along to the open day and she absolutely loved it, and we went ahead with it.

The audition was almost three weeks ago; we haven't heard anything yet. One of DD's friends heard in the middle of last week that she has been offered a place, so it seems likely that DD hasn't. I wondered whether perhaps an email had been lost along the way somewhere, so emailed them a couple of days ago to check, but they are not responding. I now don't know what to say to DD. The evidence suggests that she hasn't got a place, and although we've tried very hard to keep everything very casual, she has been asking every day whether they've decided yet, and is going to be pretty upset, because she really wanted to do it. Do we wait a week to check whether they do eventually come back to us to confirm? If they don't respond, do we wait 2 weeks? 3?

I can't help feeling that it's a bit mean to put 7 year olds in this position; they aren't adults, applying for jobs. They are still pretty young kids and it isn't really fair to not tell them at all whether or not they've got in, and just leave us to decide when the level of rudeness involved is so great that they must have not got a place. Is it just me? And in this situation, how long would you wait before deciding that the answer must be no, and telling your DC?

I agree, it wouldn't take long for them to send a standard message to confirm.

They’re probably waiting to hear whether their first picks have accepted, in case some don’t so they can consider making other offers?

PigGondola, I thought that too, but it's now been 8 days since those offers were sent out, and there were only going to be 5 offers made, so I'd be a bit surprised if they hadn't heard back from those parents. They're pretty sought-after places...

It's not just me, is it? It's really bloody rude.

It is where children are concerned. They should have told you on the day that if you hadn't heard by xyz then unfortunately they were unsuccessful.

It is rude, surely it can’t be that difficult for them to reply. Well done in your daughter doe trying anyway, you win some you lose some.

I think it's a bit sad yes. Not sure what you can do except be honest with your wee girl

Is there a phone number? I’d ring. I think that’s really poor. Hope your DD finds another choir soon. It’s a fabulous activity for kids.

If there’s a phone number, I’d give them a call. It is a poor show.

Well, I’m in two minds about this.

My daughter is involved in a very competitive sport and although she is older than your daughter now, when she was 7 I knew she wouldn’t have been able to handle the process of decisions being made or the possible rejections she might experience. I knew it was a brutal process that not many kids hoped well with. The choose the best without apology or concern for feelings.

I think when you put your daughter forward, or allowed her to audition, you should have considered whether she could handle the rejection and related dramas like waiting for offers.

So, yes it is poor of them, but you put her into this mix so now you have to help her manage the potentially negative outcomes.

I’m sorry to hear if this OP and it’s hard but it is life. Round here, children sit full on exams at 6/7 for selective entry to prep schools. The pressure is immense. Some may do 5 separate exams and interviews and get no offers. It’s the same if your child want to get into a particular sport team, etc. I just said to mine, that life is about how you deal with the knockbacks. There still be more knockbacks than successes, but at least you put yourself out there and when a success does come, the knockbacks make it all the more special. It’s hard to grasp at 7 though, I know. But presumably she can try again? Also, there must be other choirs?

My DC school had a choir that was a huge deal. They all had to audition - it was not optional Some got in, some didn’t. It caused significant much stress for some kids and the parents went mad.

OhSayWhat, thank you, yes - I am already awake at night feeling really terrible about it.

Even if you think my parenting was rubbish, my question wasn't whether it was reasonable to have gone for the audition, but whether it was reasonable to expect them to have let us know the outcome, either way. To be absolutely honest, I didn't predict that they would ever be so rude, so I hadn't considered this as an outcome I'd have to help her deal with.

She may still have a chance. You need to think glass-half-full on this one. Regardless of whether or not she gets a place, there are other things in life in meantime.

I agree it’s a pretty rubbish way to go about it. Unless they had thousands apply it doesn’t take to long to send a quick no thanks email.

It’s really mean to keep her hanging on.

Given that it's a cathedral, it's not particularly Christian I would have thought.

I agree that a note by now should have happened. As for being able to cope with failure or rejection, if that is the case, just be supportive. If the pandemic has any positive sides it is where people have managed setbacks.

Yes give them a call.

This could be a valuable teaching moment either way - learning resilience is such a massive life skill and I wish I'd learnt more of it sooner! - you can help your daughter learn that she doesn't succeed or fail on one decision alone.

@cosima8

I’m sorry to hear if this OP and it’s hard but it is life. Round here, children sit full on exams at 6/7 for selective entry to prep schools. The pressure is immense. Some may do 5 separate exams and interviews and get no offers. It’s the same if your child want to get into a particular sport team, etc. I just said to mine, that life is about how you deal with the knockbacks. There still be more knockbacks than successes, but at least you put yourself out there and when a success does come, the knockbacks make it all the more special. It’s hard to grasp at 7 though, I know. But presumably she can try again? Also, there must be other choirs?

My DC school had a choir that was a huge deal. They all had to audition - it was not optional Some got in, some didn’t. It caused significant much stress for some kids and the parents went mad.

I'm sorry but that is just sick.

I agree it’s bad manners and inconsiderate. Did you not clarify at the time of the audition when to expect to hear and whether they would contact unsuccessful applicants?

I think at this stage I would be saying to DD that it’s probably game over and there’ll be other opportunities, blah blah.

I think for further auditions I'd present it as a fun day out such as "you've been invited to do X at Y on Z date, would you like to go?" Then the expectation is just for that one day. Then if she gets in, brilliant. If she doesn't, no harm done.

As a side note I do think it's very rude. I interview as part of my job role and always tell people if they've been unsuccessful and explain why/any feedback if appropriate.

Even if your dd has not been successful in the first round, @Thefifthbeatle, I can't see why they couldn't send an email saying:

"Thank you for attending the audition. Unfortunately your dd did not get a place in the first round of offers, but she is on the waiting list, if anyone else cannot take up their place."

That took me seconds to type, and emailing it would not be hugely time consuming, so I don't know why they can't do so.

And you are right - it is rude and thoughtless for them to just leave children hanging.

I think it's bad for not to contact anyone to let them know they haven't been successful from job interviews to auditions. So YANBU, especially rubbish for children.

I think you need to contact them and ask. She'll know then and either can deal with the disappointment or know she needs to wait x amount of time before hearing.

Well there's several possibilities:
They've emailed the successful ones and are waiting to hear (maybe one is waiting for another offer before they respond?) before they email the unsuccessful ones.
They've sent email/snail mail and you haven't received it for some reason.
They don't send unsuccessful ones, but in the info you got there was something saying "if you haven't heard by x date, then you were unsuccessful".

They will send an email out to the unsuccessful ones, however there is a reason why it's delayed-maybe they've just decided to have another audition day, or are launching another choir, having another open day etc.

At this point when mine were 7yo, I'd tell them that I haven't heard, but I think they've told the successful ones by now, so it looks likely she hasn't got it, and go straight on to "and I saw this choir/other thing which I wondered whether you'd like to do. What about it?"
That way you're not prolonging it, and if she does then get an offer then it's a nice bonus.

Doesn't matter how elite an organisation is, if you have taken the time to attend then they should have the decency to let you know if you have been successful, or otherwise. They could at least say you are on a reserve list, if they are waiting for confirmation from other children.
Think its bad enough when employers don't do it for interviewee's, its especially shitty to do it to kids.

Given that it's a cathedral, it's not particularly Christian I would have thought.

@newb

Eh?