Advice for my daughter please

[Schoolissues1]

Not an AIBU, but I need to help my daughter so that she can foster healthy friendships and generally help her towards positive social interactions in general.

She is 14, and a short version of a long story, I left her dad 6 years ago due to controlling behaviour. He has never stepped up as a dad and due to his behaviours towards all of us including her siblings, she has definitely been affected mentally.

She's had some counselling, was under CAMHS for anxiety and has seen a nutritionist due to excessive weight gain.

I felt we had made progress over the years, and fortunately we have a good relationship on the whole, but after yet another falling out with a friendship group, her mood has plummeted. She has shown signs of mild depression, has been secretly eating and refuses point blank to do any form of physical activity. Her hygiene has also taken a nose dive - she simply has lost all interest in herself or anything.

After giving it a lot of thought, I've realised that she seems quite immature compared to her peers. In fact, I'd probably liken her to a 11 year old in terms of mental maturity.

Throughout primary and secondary school, she has struggled with friendships. On reflection, I've realised that she has always gotten on better with people younger than her. I think this could be a big factor in why she cant keep friends.

I feel sad for her and I take responsibility myself as I think where I have over compensated for her dad not stepping up, I have wrapped her in cotton wool and prehaps not allowed her to develop as she should. I've done it with all of my children to be honest, and although the others (both boys) have not struggled as much with friendships, they are definitely behind in their years emotionally too.

They all have zero resilience, rely on me sorting out their every whim, and although all of them are very polite, kind and well behaved, they definitely struggle socially and with any form of decision making.

My daughter is so overweight as she emotionally eats. I do take blame for allowing it to get to this stage, but no matter how much I try to organise fun family activities, walks, hobbies etc, she just wont do it. I talk about her good points, don't make losing weight appear like my focus, I've talked to her about how eating well and moving more will boost her mental health and confidence but it doesnt sink in.

Sorry for the long post. I'm just looking for some advice. Even any books I could read to help me reverse this shambles I've created.

Thank you

Sorry for lack of paragraphs they were there when I wrote this.

Are there any activities where you live where she can take on a leader role for younger kids? I also got on better with younger kids when I was a kid and I was a cadet in St John's Ambulance, where I was one of only two teenagers and the others were all ten years old or younger. The actual leaders gave us some responsibility for organising drills and practices, and I enjoyed playing younger kid games like hide and seek and being able to give them piggy back rides etc. I'm not sure what age scouts are but if she was in the upper age bracket for that it could be good.

What she is doing sounds like very low self esteem - she doesn't like herself and is doing all she can to give others a reason to not like her (being smelly, gaining weight) so she can justify in her mind that's why people don't like her and not face her deep down feelings of not being liked for who she is. Solution is probably more counselling, and getting her into an activity where she can have success, achieve something, and feel proud of herself

If you're a member of a church, volunteering in a youth group would be good. I did that in my early 20s and really enjoyed it. Same kind of benefits as when I was in St John's Ambulance as you feel achievement from figuring out new games for the kids to play and working out what you'll do each week, and you feel good about yourself as they look up to you and you see them get happier and more confident each week you see them. At 14 she can enjoy herself playing younger kid games without others her age looking at her being judgemental too (which is how she might feel at school).

I think I would start with giving her more responsibilities. If you say she's quite young for her age I think giving her self help skills will help her mature a bit (and give her a bit more self motivation etc).

I know youre her mum (and you sound like a really loving and caring one too!) but you're saying they rely on you for everything. That can't be easy for you and also makes you the scapegoat for anything that goes wrong rather than their efforts. Like in her head it's not her actions that are causing her to be overweight but yours because you let it get this far or didn't think of the right activity to motivate her and therefore she is helpless at helping herself.

I know this sounds horrible and I don't mean it to but could the friendship problems be that her peers are maturing but she is still babied and they feel they have to look after her?

From your post I think that would be my first course of action. It might be that you have a set of chores listed for her ( maybe a small reward) or she has to independently get her self ready for school, cooking dinner twice a week or whatever responsibility you think would benefit her.

She sounds like my cousin. Always hanging around with younger friends and very pampered by his mum. His friends just kept getting younger as they matured and he's still living off his mums apron strings and not taking any responsibility for anything that goes wrongs in his life. He also suffers with his weight and depression.

If you have a lawn, teach her to mow it. Minor bit of exercise, minor bit of responsibility, minor bit of empowerment.

Baby steps.

So don’t buy any treat stuff at home. No crisps, biscuits etc.

Give her, and her brothers some responsibility for simple chores at home.

Encourage her social skills through group activity, whatever her interest is.

Also think about possibleneurodeveloomental issues; you describe her as emotionally immature and struggling with friendships, is she achieving well academically? Do you think she may be significantly lower ability than her friends and so struggling to keep up in conversation etc? Or could she have a specific deficit in her social skills? Could she be presenting with ASD? Presentation in teen girls can look very different to in much younger children.

@KangarooSally

Are there any activities where you live where she can take on a leader role for younger kids? I also got on better with younger kids when I was a kid and I was a cadet in St John's Ambulance, where I was one of only two teenagers and the others were all ten years old or younger. The actual leaders gave us some responsibility for organising drills and practices, and I enjoyed playing younger kid games like hide and seek and being able to give them piggy back rides etc. I'm not sure what age scouts are but if she was in the upper age bracket for that it could be good.

What she is doing sounds like very low self esteem - she doesn't like herself and is doing all she can to give others a reason to not like her (being smelly, gaining weight) so she can justify in her mind that's why people don't like her and not face her deep down feelings of not being liked for who she is. Solution is probably more counselling, and getting her into an activity where she can have success, achieve something, and feel proud of herself

Thank you for some good advice. When did things even out for you in terms of enjoy the company of people your age?

I guess it would definitely be worth looking into. She is so resistant to do anything at the moment that I'm not sure she will be willing.

I feel that I need to somehow get her on par with kids her own age in terms of her schooling as her loneliness and rejection at school is something she faces five days a week.

Are there any activities where you live where she can take on a leader role for younger kids?

Just what I was thinking. I was thinking more along lines pf guiding/scouting or perhaps a youth drama group something like that

Generally speaking you do need to give her more responsibility and the OPPORTUNITY to act in a more mature way commensurate with her chronological age ditto your other dc.

I raised dd alone after splitting from her dad so I understand the temptation to make their lives as easy as possible, but it's a disservice to do so

Our jobs as parents is to create capable and confident adults.

Chores is an obvious starting point but also pocket money/allowance, letting them plan and do journeys on public transport alone. I was shocked at how some of dds friends were babied by their parents and indeed when they reached adulthood snd had to get jobs, go to uni etc those friends of hers that had that type of upbringing really struggled with the transition to adulthood.

I'm afraid girls friendships can be very tricky at this age for a number of reasons. I took the stance of staying out of it unless there was serious upset at which point I stepped in but it sounds like you're at that point anyway.

Find things she can excel at to build her self esteem. Can she access more counselling?

BUT don't give her excuses or allow her to make them.

You can control the food environment at home but ultimately she needs to be able to control herself outside the home food wise too. And of course she needs to value her body and keep it as healthy as possible. Much easier to create good habits now than have to undo bad habits and learn new ones later.

Is there a chance you express your love through cooking/feeding ?

If the issues are at school then you need to speak to the school, she may be a victim of bullying which can have devastating and lifelong effects

@Babyfg

I think I would start with giving her more responsibilities. If you say she's quite young for her age I think giving her self help skills will help her mature a bit (and give her a bit more self motivation etc).

I know youre her mum (and you sound like a really loving and caring one too!) but you're saying they rely on you for everything. That can't be easy for you and also makes you the scapegoat for anything that goes wrong rather than their efforts. Like in her head it's not her actions that are causing her to be overweight but yours because you let it get this far or didn't think of the right activity to motivate her and therefore she is helpless at helping herself.

I know this sounds horrible and I don't mean it to but could the friendship problems be that her peers are maturing but she is still babied and they feel they have to look after her?

From your post I think that would be my first course of action. It might be that you have a set of chores listed for her ( maybe a small reward) or she has to independently get her self ready for school, cooking dinner twice a week or whatever responsibility you think would benefit her.

She sounds like my cousin. Always hanging around with younger friends and very pampered by his mum. His friends just kept getting younger as they matured and he's still living off his mums apron strings and not taking any responsibility for anything that goes wrongs in his life. He also suffers with his weight and depression.

Thank you for your kind comments. I'm a loving mum but I'm no doubt the cause of her problems therefore feel like a failure right now - hence waking up at this time of the morning as my brain is in overdrive.

I most definitely do need to give her more responsibility. She has never cooked a meal in her life. I have so much work to do to get her up to speed!

You are spot on regarding her friendships. Her 'friends' told her she was annoying, and obviously I'm hurt on her behalf, but asked her why she thinks those girls would think that. My daughter said that they say she goes on about the same thing and doesn't always make sense. I can second this, as my daughter has a tendency to talk about a topic, for a long drawn out period of time, but having no real point to what she is saying. Sometimes she can go on about the same thing but frame it in lots of different ways in one long drawn out way and often in monotone voice- as if she is trying to pad out a discussion.

She also has a habit of copying what someone has said, almost as if the person hadn't said anything, making it seem like her idea. For example, I could say (within a group of people) "oh as soon as the cat hears a rustle in the kitchen, shes straight there as if she never gets fed" then minutes later, my daughter would repeat that as if I hadn't said it.

I also notice she doesn't have good social cues. I've explained numerous times that its rude to talk over someone when they're talking, but still she does this. Quite often completely changing the topic or dynamic of the conversation.

How is your cousin now? Is he more independent? I hope his depression is under control

@KangarooSally

If you're a member of a church, volunteering in a youth group would be good. I did that in my early 20s and really enjoyed it. Same kind of benefits as when I was in St John's Ambulance as you feel achievement from figuring out new games for the kids to play and working out what you'll do each week, and you feel good about yourself as they look up to you and you see them get happier and more confident each week you see them. At 14 she can enjoy herself playing younger kid games without others her age looking at her being judgemental too (which is how she might feel at school).

Thank you. Again great ideas, it's just her having the confidence or desire to actually do this.

@TriteMale

What is she secretly eating? I know this sounds obvious, but couldn't you just ensure that there are no biscuits etc lying around for her to eat and instead leave around fruit etc.

My mum tried to do everything for me and it definitely took me longer to be assertive and confident on my own. She wasn't the type to overindulge me so much as a control freak, but even now she will try and involve herself in any aspect of my life she can and then try to 'take over', whether that be me buying a new car or arranging a holiday. I give her absolutely no opportunity to nowadays and honestly our relationship is much better (she just bosses my dad around instead).

I think for a long time I was allowing her the extra treats to make her feel good but am fully aware that I was just facilitating her emotional eating. I feel really guilty about that and hold my hands up for not seeing the bigger picture. At the time I thought I was making her feel good, using food as a pacifier. I want to make clear that wasnt forcing her to eat, but rather not saying no when I should have.

Obviously I have recently tried to turn things around, but she is still buying treats on her way home from school, or doubling up on her cereal/toast intake. She loves fruit, but can eat ridiculous amounts I.e a whole pack of grapes. So even with temptation out of the way, she still manages to increase her food intake.

I work funny patterns, so sometimes they're at home on their own a few hours of an evening (her eldest brother is a young adult therefore is in charge when I'm not there). I dont have a partner, so it's hard to monitor her eating habits when I'm not home. Obviously I could ask my eldest to, but he studies hard so cannot monitor all the time.

I'm glad you have taken control of your life with regards to your mum. I personally wouldn't say I'm a control freak, more like I'm too soft because of how their dad treated them, so over compensated.

Reading about your daughter, you could have been talking about me as a child. Unable to make friends, only played with children younger than me, struggling with any form of relationship. I was diagnosed with Autism age 53, the things you speak about can be part of making a diagnosis of Asd (Aspergers) Ask to speak to the SENCO at her school & tell them what you have observed, they can speak to her teachers & observe her in school, you can also ask your GP to make a referral for an assessment, you may have to wait a couple of years but it is worth getting in the queue or paying for a private assessment if you can afford it.

@Ikeameatballs

So don’t buy any treat stuff at home. No crisps, biscuits etc.

Give her, and her brothers some responsibility for simple chores at home.

Encourage her social skills through group activity, whatever her interest is.

Also think about possibleneurodeveloomental issues; you describe her as emotionally immature and struggling with friendships, is she achieving well academically? Do you think she may be significantly lower ability than her friends and so struggling to keep up in conversation etc? Or could she have a specific deficit in her social skills? Could she be presenting with ASD? Presentation in teen girls can look very different to in much younger children.

I think there is a possibility of ASD. Her younger brother is autistic, but presents in a 'typical' and obvious way. He is high functioning and all three are academic. My daughter isn't top of the class, more so average, but is (usually) incredibly organised, on time and works hard and independently, whereas the boys, although academic have terrible organisational skills or time keeping abilities.

I suspect I have undiagnosed ASD but believe like most women with such I mask it well. I am self employed but have to deal with clients daily which takes me massively out of my comfort zone but I'm not sure anyone would notice. After a day of socialising, talking to numerous people, and being in busy environments, I come home and feel mentally drained, like I've survived a day! And each day I have to mentally prepare for the same drill. It's not the work I dread, it's the constant social interaction.

I have a very small circle of friends and although I appear confident, I most certainly am not. I feel like I'm winging it daily.

@Pretzelcoatl

If you have a lawn, teach her to mow it. Minor bit of exercise, minor bit of responsibility, minor bit of empowerment.

Baby steps.

Thank you. I wish I had a garden! I live in a small flat in a busy city, so no such luck.

@TriteMale

I'm mildly dyspraxic and I do exactly what your daughter does if I don't stop myself. I overanalyse things from every angle and also find it hard to 'let a topic go' if the conversation changes before I'm finished, and I want to try and steer back to it.

Oh really? Did or does that impact your friendship groups?

@Nat6999

Reading about your daughter, you could have been talking about me as a child. Unable to make friends, only played with children younger than me, struggling with any form of relationship. I was diagnosed with Autism age 53, the things you speak about can be part of making a diagnosis of Asd (Aspergers) Ask to speak to the SENCO at her school & tell them what you have observed, they can speak to her teachers & observe her in school, you can also ask your GP to make a referral for an assessment, you may have to wait a couple of years but it is worth getting in the queue or paying for a private assessment if you can afford it.

Gosh, it really seems this may be part of the reason. As mentioned above, I suspect I have ASD. This combined with my molycoddling etc, has probably been the cause if all her issues.

I will get another referral for sure.

How do you cope as an adult now? Does it affect your life much?

Sorry OP, this sounds really horrible.

But tbh normal teenage stuff. Teenage girls are MEAN. They all fall out, then friends again.

The eating issues do need adressing though i agree. Go to your GP and insist on a referral for her to a proper CNN qualified psychiatrist who is a specialist im this area,

Other than that I was making a bet on how many comments it would take for someome to mentiom autism. Gotta love MM for that - we austistics are the source of all of the world's problems! 😂

CNN?? I wrote "clinically qualified psychiatrist"

Nothing to do with dodgy news outlets like CNN. Thanks phone!

Aaargh always so many people who "suspect" they have ASD and attribute horrible behaviour to it. No, you can't diagnose yourself. And no, ASD people are mostly the kindest and most generous, loyal people I've met so stop stereotyping us all with your misinformed preconceptions.

@MagentaDragon

Sorry OP, this sounds really horrible.

But tbh normal teenage stuff. Teenage girls are MEAN. They all fall out, then friends again.

The eating issues do need adressing though i agree. Go to your GP and insist on a referral for her to a proper CNN qualified psychiatrist who is a specialist im this area,

Other than that I was making a bet on how many comments it would take for someome to mentiom autism. Gotta love MM for that - we austistics are the source of all of the world's problems! 😂

Thanks for your input, I do see where you're coming from, but this is a whole other level than just mean teenage girls. My daughter has struggled with friendships since primary school.

It would be easy to think that the blame lies with the other girls, but seeing as this is a pattern and she has never held a single solid friendship down, I do believe the issue is with my daughter.

I understand that Autism/anxiety is used a lot on MN, but actually I think there is a lot of truth in it. Except years ago we didn't know about all this, but clearly we are seeing a lost generation of undiagnosed adults.

As much as I hate labels, I think they are necessary these days to allow people to access the help that they need.

@MagentaDragon

Aaargh always so many people who "suspect" they have ASD and attribute horrible behaviour to it. No, you can't diagnose yourself. And no, ASD people are mostly the kindest and most generous, loyal people I've met so stop stereotyping us all with your misinformed preconceptions.

I don't think people are using 'suspected' ASD as an excuse for bad behaviour? I suspect I have it and I'm not horrible, my daughter who I suspect might isn't horrible and neither is my son who is officially diagnosed.

I think people suspecting is fair enough, seeing as we now have the knowledge of what ASD can 'look' like and present like in people.

I suspect I have undiagnosed ASD but believe like most women with such I mask it well. I am self employed but have to deal with clients daily which takes me massively out of my comfort zone but I'm not sure anyone would notice. After a day of socialising, talking to numerous people, and being in busy environments, I come home and feel mentally drained, like I've survived a day! And each day I have to mentally prepare for the same drill. It's not the work I dread, it's the constant social interaction.

This is a normal expression of a more introverted personality.

Why does she fall out with these friends ? That might be the key , especially if she has asd. I've asd and was only diagnosed in my 30s and I rarely maintained friendships as a child simply because I always somehow got it wrong but never understood why and I had a lot of anxiety around my peers for the same reason. I mainly played with the younger kids in my estate and usually got on well with them. Once I began secondary school I found my tribe and started to learn about the rules of socialising it became a small bit easier and into adulthood I have managed to develop friendships but mainly one to one. I struggle terribly in groups as it creates a massive shift in dynamic that I struggle to deal with.