Advice for my daughter please

[Schoolissues1]

Not an AIBU, but I need to help my daughter so that she can foster healthy friendships and generally help her towards positive social interactions in general.

She is 14, and a short version of a long story, I left her dad 6 years ago due to controlling behaviour. He has never stepped up as a dad and due to his behaviours towards all of us including her siblings, she has definitely been affected mentally.

She's had some counselling, was under CAMHS for anxiety and has seen a nutritionist due to excessive weight gain.

I felt we had made progress over the years, and fortunately we have a good relationship on the whole, but after yet another falling out with a friendship group, her mood has plummeted. She has shown signs of mild depression, has been secretly eating and refuses point blank to do any form of physical activity. Her hygiene has also taken a nose dive - she simply has lost all interest in herself or anything.

After giving it a lot of thought, I've realised that she seems quite immature compared to her peers. In fact, I'd probably liken her to a 11 year old in terms of mental maturity.

Throughout primary and secondary school, she has struggled with friendships. On reflection, I've realised that she has always gotten on better with people younger than her. I think this could be a big factor in why she cant keep friends.

I feel sad for her and I take responsibility myself as I think where I have over compensated for her dad not stepping up, I have wrapped her in cotton wool and prehaps not allowed her to develop as she should. I've done it with all of my children to be honest, and although the others (both boys) have not struggled as much with friendships, they are definitely behind in their years emotionally too.

They all have zero resilience, rely on me sorting out their every whim, and although all of them are very polite, kind and well behaved, they definitely struggle socially and with any form of decision making.

My daughter is so overweight as she emotionally eats. I do take blame for allowing it to get to this stage, but no matter how much I try to organise fun family activities, walks, hobbies etc, she just wont do it. I talk about her good points, don't make losing weight appear like my focus, I've talked to her about how eating well and moving more will boost her mental health and confidence but it doesnt sink in.

Sorry for the long post. I'm just looking for some advice. Even any books I could read to help me reverse this shambles I've created.

Thank you

I didn't mean you OP. I suppose I'm just a bit prickly because pretty much any time someone posts about any child's issues or relationship issues with an adult who has behaved awfully people immeidately say "oh, maybe they're autistic?" 🙄

We think differently but the vast majority of autistic people I know seem to be much kinder and more open and reasonable and loyal than the other people I know. And I spend most of my life interacting with the NT group because of work etc.

Anyway, sorry to be snippy: it wasn't aimed at you. Just frustration with how we're portrayed on here and some group that can be defined by specific personality traits, any more than you could do that just by knowing someone was NT! 😂

But I can see you are not trying to do that so my post was unwarranted. And it doed sound to me like you should refer your daughter for diagnosis: for many including me, it has been a relief, not a label. Rather a route to self-acceptance and understanding.

@romdowa

Why does she fall out with these friends ? That might be the key , especially if she has asd. I've asd and was only diagnosed in my 30s and I rarely maintained friendships as a child simply because I always somehow got it wrong but never understood why and I had a lot of anxiety around my peers for the same reason. I mainly played with the younger kids in my estate and usually got on well with them. Once I began secondary school I found my tribe and started to learn about the rules of socialising it became a small bit easier and into adulthood I have managed to develop friendships but mainly one to one. I struggle terribly in groups as it creates a massive shift in dynamic that I struggle to deal with.

She can be annoying in terms of repeating herself, talking mindlessly with no real context, not 'getting' what everyone else is talking about, butting in whilst someone is mid conversation etc.

I'm glad you got your diagnosis. Has it helped in anyway?

She can be annoying in terms of repeating herself, talking mindlessly with no real context, not 'getting' what everyone else is talking about, butting in whilst someone is mid conversation etc

This is almost identical to things people would say to me as a child/ teenager.

@CoalCraft

I suspect I have undiagnosed ASD but believe like most women with such I mask it well. I am self employed but have to deal with clients daily which takes me massively out of my comfort zone but I'm not sure anyone would notice. After a day of socialising, talking to numerous people, and being in busy environments, I come home and feel mentally drained, like I've survived a day! And each day I have to mentally prepare for the same drill. It's not the work I dread, it's the constant social interaction.

This is a normal expression of a more introverted personality.

Very true, but in my case there is more context to it. I just didn't feel it necessary to list all of the reasons why I suspect I might be.

@MagentaDragon

She can be annoying in terms of repeating herself, talking mindlessly with no real context, not 'getting' what everyone else is talking about, butting in whilst someone is mid conversation etc

This is almost identical to things people would say to me as a child/ teenager.

Its horrible isn't it. But I can understand why teenage girls would be less tolerant of a girl behaving in such a way.

I don't want to change her to suit them, it's more that I want her to be able to learn social etiquette so that she doesn't keep running into the same problem which in turn leave her feeling lonely and depressed

@MagentaDragon

I didn't mean you OP. I suppose I'm just a bit prickly because pretty much any time someone posts about any child's issues or relationship issues with an adult who has behaved awfully people immeidately say "oh, maybe they're autistic?" 🙄

We think differently but the vast majority of autistic people I know seem to be much kinder and more open and reasonable and loyal than the other people I know. And I spend most of my life interacting with the NT group because of work etc.

Anyway, sorry to be snippy: it wasn't aimed at you. Just frustration with how we're portrayed on here and some group that can be defined by specific personality traits, any more than you could do that just by knowing someone was NT! 😂

But I can see you are not trying to do that so my post was unwarranted. And it doed sound to me like you should refer your daughter for diagnosis: for many including me, it has been a relief, not a label. Rather a route to self-acceptance and understanding.

I hear you. I havent come across such comments, so I can't comment myself, but my replies from people with ASD or suspected ASD have been positive.

I like the idea of a route to self acceptance rather than label. But I guess labels are a quick route to getting the right help.

Honestly it has helped so much. I talk shite and interrupt, usually when I'm bored of what the other person is on about 🤣🤣 I also have adhd but I know I must let them talk and be interested in their conversation too. The mindless talking is probably makes sense in her head and its more than likely an attempt to join in even though she is lost in the dynamic. Has she any interest or subject that she loves ? Finding others with that love or interest would probably help her make connections a bit more. Also explaining social norms and cues to her a bit will help as well. Like when you meet an someone and they say oh we must arrange to meet for a coffee , but they dont mean it , it took years for this to be explained to me and caused so much hurt and upset for me. I simply couldn't understand why you would say that if you didn't mean it. Until these things are explained then it makes life so hard.

Yes. It would have helped massively to have the diagnosis earlier, proper family support and the appropriate support at school. Someone to teach you how social relationships work, where things can fall down, not to automatically trust everyone who seems to be friendly etc. If you think she might be autistic then refer her asap: I know nobody with a positive diagnosis who regrets getting that diagnosis, although we are all impacted in such different ways. With women, the issues and struggles generally become more obvious during the teenage years with extended, forced interaction with peers every day.

@romdowa

Honestly it has helped so much. I talk shite and interrupt, usually when I'm bored of what the other person is on about 🤣🤣 I also have adhd but I know I must let them talk and be interested in their conversation too. The mindless talking is probably makes sense in her head and its more than likely an attempt to join in even though she is lost in the dynamic. Has she any interest or subject that she loves ? Finding others with that love or interest would probably help her make connections a bit more. Also explaining social norms and cues to her a bit will help as well. Like when you meet an someone and they say oh we must arrange to meet for a coffee , but they dont mean it , it took years for this to be explained to me and caused so much hurt and upset for me. I simply couldn't understand why you would say that if you didn't mean it. Until these things are explained then it makes life so hard.

Haha that did make me laugh. I do think like you, it makes complete sense in her head. I'm fearful of discouraging her as she may decide not to talk at all in fear of getting things wring, and obviously I like that she tries to be sociable unlike me as a child.

My son who has ASD is VERY literal. If you say something like "oh my god I almost died" he would believe that actually was the case. My daughter on the other hand does seem to differentiate but has no understanding of taking turns to talk or listening and being interested in others.

Generally - and it is a big generalisation - but ASC girls are better at copying social behaviour and masking, understanding nuances etc. BUT that does not mean they have this inherent understanding of unspoken social rules etc until these are actually explained. It took me until my 30s to understand what may have been obvious for other people at 18. So good support is needed. Mostly it seems like if you have it, you'll do fine. If you don't have a diagnosis or a good family, it is shit. You clearly love your children very much or you wouldn't be posting this. Get her referred and get some support. X

It's a fine line between guiding and putting her off completely. Maybe focusing on the taking turns might be a good one. Does she like rules and manners or even things being fair? It was always drilled into me to be polite , so I use that to teach myself to show I care and I'm interested. Because I do care and I like making connections with people , I just show it in ways that are odd. But I'd start slowly and kind of integrate it into her life as a big change could overwhelm and actually put her off. I feel so bad for her , I remember being that age and that feeling of having no clue as to what was going on with everyone else but I want to assure you I'm a happy women in my 30s with friends who is having her first baby this year. She will come into her own and find her tribe!!

As you already have a son diagnosed, the process for referring your daughter for diagnosis should be simpler. Hopefully.

Honestly diagnosis for most people is SUCH a relief. You have spent your life feeling lile there are a million different things wrong with you. Then you realise it's just one thing, that is unchangeable, and none of it was your fault - the world is not designed for people like you! So you start being kinder to yourself, to make life better rather than bash your head on a metaphorical wall to attempt to be someone else. Then everything improves, slowly,

@MagentaDragon

Generally - and it is a big generalisation - but ASC girls are better at copying social behaviour and masking, understanding nuances etc. BUT that does not mean they have this inherent understanding of unspoken social rules etc until these are actually explained. It took me until my 30s to understand what may have been obvious for other people at 18. So good support is needed. Mostly it seems like if you have it, you'll do fine. If you don't have a diagnosis or a good family, it is shit. You clearly love your children very much or you wouldn't be posting this. Get her referred and get some support. X

Thank you. Much appreciated x

I would support the idea of trying to find a special interest group with her.

For my DS it was Army Cadets. For the first few months he was vaguely interested but wasnt keen but I made the deal with him that he tried it for 6 months. By the end of that time there was no question of dropping out and in fact he kept it up until he aged out.

I dont know about other youth groups but his detachment had zero tolerance of bullying. Lots of rules and discipline which really works. They are also very good at the hygiene thing. Uniform has to be clean and pressed, cadets have to be clean. Any backsliders are quickly sorted out but in a strangely non judgemental way.

My feel was that they really 'got' teenagers.

Sorry for late reply. Tbh my cousin is now mid 30s and still acting the same (and his mum is still making excuses for him). As a family we're sure his depression stems from not achieving much and missing out on life because of it. It's sad really because it's such a waste of a life and potential (for his mum as well because she's always worrying about him and running her self ragged trying to make everything as easy as possible for him).

It would do no harm to get your daughter checked for any conditions you may suspect. But even if your daughter is autistic or had adhd or any other condition, giving appropriate responsibilities will still benefit her and help with her self worth and to be self motivated (and take some of the pressure off you).

I don’t have much to add, but I just wanted to come on to say you sound like a lovely mum, and you are doing a good job

It didn't actually really even out for me until year 11 & 12. I went on exchange to France for a year at age 16 (I live in Australia) and that shook me up so much it kind of reset everything that was wrong with me socially. Until then my friends at school were a girl my age with mild cerebral palsy who was also very immature, a year 7 girl, and a year 12 girl (older but was kind of an outcast). I went to a new school when I came back and had no problems at all. Then had a complete blast living on campus at uni. More gentle counselling is probably a nicer way to do it, I was quite miserable most of that year in France lol

That was meant to be a reply but the quote didn't appear

This is interesting. I have a niece who is very much like this and only recently the lightbulb has gone on. I think she may be on the spectrum. I dare not suggest this to her mother as she would dismiss me out of hand, but I think it’s a strong possibility.
She is also very immature for her age and doesn’t make friends. She has always preferred boys and doesn’t seem to know how to engage with girls. She also prefers younger children or adults and can’t relate to her own peer group. As she’s got older the issues seem to have got more obvious . In the last year she’s developed an earring disorder.

She has never been given responsibility or pocket money and is treated like a much younger sibling. I would agree with others that giving her more responsibility and teaching life skills will be invaluable. As for conversation, perhaps if she had more hobbies and interests she would have more to talk about, and maybe meet new people? Try to teach her some social skills in a gentle way which encourages her .

Eating not earring!

I think the weight gain and friendship issues are all symptoms of her anxiety, and are unlikely to improve unless that is tackled at the root.

When she was discharged from CAMHS did they give her strategies to use?

You can self refer to CAMHS online if you feel that she would benefit from more support. In our area she would not meet threshold from your description, but as she is already known to them, it is worth a try.

Are school able to offer any support - counselling, therapies, interventions to support friendships and reading social cues? I would definitely make an appointment to meet with the pastoral lead and/or SENCO.

I like the sound of minimising the snack food in the house, encouraging other interests outside school and promoting resilience and responsibility, but think all of this will only stand a chance of working if she is able to address her underlying anxiety and unhappiness.

Setting aside any autism, the girls of her age are likely to find her ‘annoying’ if she’s immature, 14 yr olds do not tend to be friends with 11 yr olds.
Wrapping her up in cotton wool has held her back, I’m surprised that you don’t have your DC doing any chores or even cooking, all these things help them mature and lessens your workload.
My DS has Aspergers and I treated him no differently from his sisters, he has always done his part (mostly more the the girls!) very self reliant. Encourage her independence, give her responsibilities.

So much of this I can relate to my DD 14.

We have seen CAMHS, and are currently going through the ASD assessment process.
We went to CAMHS with anxiety, it had got to the point where she wouldn’t go to school (still not going). She is also very young for her age, and I have to nag for hygiene.

We get on well though, and she’s good company … but she likes spending time on her own, which is fine. She has one close friend, and has really struggled with friendships.

I’m having to learn how to parent a child with ASD (high functioning has been mentioned… whatever that means).

School have been great, we are all on a learning curve .. including her…and we are getting there.

I was talking to a “professional”, who gave me some great advice about not focussing on Y10 or Y11, this is someone’s whole life we are talking about, there is time.

Does her school offer the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme? If she would consider it then it's fantastic.

HerMammy you said "Setting aside any autism, the girls of her age are likely to find her ‘annoying’ if she’s immature, 14 yr olds do not tend to be friends with 11 yr olds."

Don't know if you've heard, but many neurodiverse kids very often present as having an emotional maturity age of around two thirds of their chronological age. It's just another trait to point towards neurodiversity.

OP, please arrange for a referral for assessment for your DD, her presentation will be very different to her brother, but you've described a lot of traits that suggest she could be neurodiverse.

'Label' isn't a nice term to use for a medical diagnosis carried out by a team of professionals, it minimises and trivialises neurodiversity, which isn't helpful for anyone.