To think Electric cars just aren’t practical yet?

[Youngatheart00]

Car is due for replacement (4 year PCP cycle) this autumn.

I love the idea of getting an electric vehicle in theory, I’m trying to make clean choices and also worry about the future value / obsolescence of petrol cars as I’m hearing more and more about manufacturers going electric only well within the next decade.

But our home is a Victorian terrace with no parking. More often than not we are not even parked outside our own home. There isn’t charging infrastructure at most petrol stations. I see some at motorway service stations but clearly it’s not practical to go there each time you need a charge (and there is a greater cost I think?)

I’m drawing the conclusion I’m going to have to go for another petrol vehicle and revisit at the end of the next 4 year cycle, when I’m hoping the electric car infrastructure will be much better developed.

I’ve thought about a hybrid but models from my preferred manufacturers seem limited (and v expensive) and I’m concerned about power as I do like a bit of ‘oomph’ for confidence!

What do others think?

I was thinking EV.
But they catch fire!
In our area man driving BMW EV and light came on dash “ please contact dealership” - in seconds it was on fire

@littlepattilou

Expecting everyone in the UK to have all electric cars by 2030 is laughable. It will be another 25-30 years (minimum,) before they have the infrastructure, and enough charging points etc. Not everyone has got the space for their own charging point, the charge doesn't give enough miles for what many people are going to want, it takes too long to charge, and the price of electric cars is too high. Most people simply cannot afford it.

I can count on the fingers of one hand, the amount of people I know who have had a brand new 'off the forecourt' car in the last decade. Most people I know spend £3,000 to £7,500 on a car. And the average price is £4,500 to £5000. Even the few people I know who have bought a new car (or one less than 2 years old) in the last few years, have spent £12 to £16K. Not the £27K- 30K plus that an electric car will cost.

And as for those 3 or 4 people who spent £12K to £16K on a nearly new - or new car - it costs them a FORTUNE. They never seem to have any bloody money, as the car drains them. The car payments are around £250 a month, the insurance is around £60 to £80 a month, (and that's on top of the petrol that costs some £200 a month, and the car tax, of £20-30 a month.)

And even at the end of the 4 or 5 years of finance, they have to pay fat lump sum of £4K to 5K, if they want to keep the car. And at that point it's worth around a third of what they paid for it 4 or 5 years before!

So the very idea that the British public - many who are quite poor/have limited funds/are only just above the poverty line - will go into debt for £25K to £30K for an electric car - is farcical. Moreover, many of them would simply not get the finance for one. Leaving car ownership, for privileged and wealthy people only...

There are SOOOO many things going against the UK being all-electric with cars. It won't happen in the next 30 years, let alone the next 9!

I agree with lots of what you say

I do worry too that with daily charges to drive older vehicles in some cities coming in, it essentially taxes the less well off. As it was I used to drive less miles before I switched to a hybrid as a day to the beach would be considered in terms of affording the fuel and if I’d have had to factor in a charge to drive into a city, that would have made city visits too expensive for me to do.

I did a spreadsheet before I got my last car looking at all the costs including tax, fuel and insurance. A brand new Kia Niro worked out cheaper overall than a second hand Dacia duster based on leasing the Niro or getting a loan for the duster. I’m hoping my swap to full electric will cut my costs even more - zero road tax, cheaper insurance which was only £40 a month anyway and even cheaper in electric charging.

There will be increasing numbers of second hand EVs coming on the market too though from company car leases and other leases ending so prices should come down.

I agree about electric vehicles currently being unaffordable for people who normally buy second hand cars. There's also the availability of both charging points and electricity in general to consider.

As well as the physical space if people don't have a driveway or parking space, we aren't far off capacity with available electricity in the UK and we actually import from Europe and the Isle of Man, plus we aren't doing particularly well at replacing the lost generation from the coal fired power stations that are closing and really dragging our feet about new build nuclear. A few wind farms and solar panels don't go far towards replacing the electricity from lost coal and nuclear, especially if we have increasing demand due to electric cars.

Plus I don't think we can rely on electric cars being zero road tax forever. The Government receives billions of revenue from road fund licence so will need to replace that money when enough people drive electric that it becomes significant. Remember a few years ago, many cars had £0-30 annual tax, now for petrol and diesel cars it's a standard of about £140.

I'm also skeptical about hybrids being cheaper to run. They might be around town, but certainly not on the motorway. I get sent a lot of them for work, usually those small 4x4 Hyundai types that seem very popular and have to replace the fuel I used and it's often far more than would have gone in the small petrol car that I used to drive. The last one worked out at about 25 pence a mile, just for fuel, nearly double even my old petrol Mini, which the hybrid enthusiasts always cite as being the type that needs to be scrapped off the road.

As it happens, I have one today that I also used yesterday. When I've finished with it I will have done about 300 motorway miles and about 50 stop start town miles, so a good test. Will report back on what it cost to run.

[quote littlepattilou]@Frazzled2207 You are being very unrealistic. Many people have no room for their own charging point.[/quote]
I get it, but increasingly there will be more charging points and it will just be an alternative to filling up- in fact many are popping up at petrol stations. Supermarkets and shopping centre car parks are excellent places for them as you can leave your cars to charge while you do your shopping. Depending on range and your lifestyle many will only need to charge once a week (what we do). Is that really going to be too much hassle???

Not specifically on here but the defeatist attitude to electric cars in general is astounding. Always I can’t do/that won’t work etc. The truth is if you want an EV- and the vast majority on here just don’t (fair enough)- you have to accept small changes to your lifestyle. I don’t think EVs are the be all and end all environmentally - carbon footprint of making it is quite high - however in my opinion it’s totally worthwhile from the air quality angle.

Not enough money to afford in the first place- this is the one totally valid argument. Not enough space for a charging point - I get this too but this argument will diminish as more chargepoints turn up.

Not specifically on here but the defeatist attitude to electric cars in general is astounding.

Not 'defeatist' - realist. For many, having looked into it quite thoroughly, it's a matter of 'not yet', not 'never'. The technology and infrastructure are not mature yet.

However. I think part of what's needed will be a move away from car ownership (already happening in cities and among younger people). I would hope that the model will shift towards smaller, more efficient day to day personal transport, perhaps supplemented by a better hire car system - the disruptive enabling technology there may be self driving cars.

I don't think people are defeatist at all @Frazzled2207 - they're realistic.

My nearest public charging point is 5 miles away and there's only one of them, so what do I do if I turn up and it's being used? The next closest is 10 miles away (again, just one of them) and the next closest after that about 25 miles from home.

I can't have a readily available in-home charging point as I live in terraced housing - so if I can't park outside my house then I can't use it.

From your replies on here you don't seem to have much of an idea about how lacking the infrastructure is in many places. Owning an electric car in a city or large town is very different to owning and charging one rurally.

When the infrastructure changes I'll be more positive about them but as it it stands it's totally unrealistic to even consider one. Plus the costs are extortionate!

[quote Youngatheart00]@Twoforthree yes!! I totally agree about the danger of not hearing the car engine. I wonder what the solution is there.....[/quote]
Seems to be keeping the noise pollution going through artificial means at present.

I would have thought that surely one of the environmental benefits is supposed to be the lack of noise, but apparently this benefit isn't as straightforward - although perhaps that's at least partly due to the surrounding vehicles making such a racket that they can't be heard, whereas reducing sound pollution levels overall with an increase in use would mean that it's possible for them to be noticed by random steppers into the road again?

Depending on range and your lifestyle many will only need to charge once a week

Yes, and many don't, and will need more frequent charging.

The current infrastructure doesn't work for large complexes of flats, or areas with terraced housing with no or tiny front gardens and no reserved parking outside your house. Until it does, those who drive the most will find it the hardest to make a change

but apparently this benefit isn't as straightforward

It's not a benefit to eliminate noise, reduction is good, but can you really see any scenario where a noiseless car improved road safety?

YABU to state it as a universal fact that EV aren't practical yet. We have had one as our only car for 3 years and it is great.

Obviously they aren't practical for everyone yet, as in your case with the parking/charging situation, so don't get one.

I'm sick of people stating universal 'truths' about EV without having even driven one let alone owned one. The other excuse I read often is that they aren't suitable for people living in rural areas. Well I live over 300m up the side of a mountain in Snowdonia and ours is working out just fine.

The infrastructure is a pain at the moment. It becomes relevant for us during long journeys and while on holiday, and it is frequently the case that charging points are occupied or out of service. Holidaying in Cornwall last year was challenging. We drove to the Eden Project, and found that of the 2000-odd parking spaces, I think 3 were charging points. 3! And they were of course all occupied. We had to have our day out, then instead of being able to go straight back to our holiday apartment, drive to a supermarket and wait to charge the car first.

Similarly Lands End. 2 charging points, both out of service.

Motorway services you have to stop for longer than you normally do, and that’s assuming there’s a charging point free when you get there. Often you have to queue to use them.

DH will still get another electric car when he changes his in the autumn but we are looking forward to the infrastructure continuing to improve, and will also want a longer range on his next car.

@cupsofcoffee
I know someone with no home chargepoint who drives several miles once a week to one and sits there reading her book for half an hour before driving back again. She enjoys the peace and quiet away from the children. Another person does similar and takes the dog for a walk nearby.
Apps tell you if they are taken or not.

Not everyone will want to do that, my point is that many that really want and EV can make it work. It will become easier in time and I hope accessible to the masses in a few years.

If we want to properly look after the planet we live in then we have to be prepared make changes to the way we live our life. Of course there’s lots of other changes we can all make as an alternative ! As I accept that EVs are not suitable/accessible for all families (yet).

can you really see any scenario where a noiseless car improved road safety?

I suppose if drivers knew that no-one could hear them, and therefore had to drive more cautiously, it might make it safer for hearing impaired people? Pedestrians would have to stop relying on their ears which would also help re coexisting with bikes and the reality that many walk around using earphones.

Artificially generated noises may well be better for close quarters warning than engine noise. At longer distances, I think it's mostly road noise rather than engine noise, other than for a few vehicles such as motorbikes.

@RIPwalter

YABU to state it as a universal fact that EV aren't practical yet. We have had one as our only car for 3 years and it is great.

Obviously they aren't practical for everyone yet, as in your case with the parking/charging situation, so don't get one.

I'm sick of people stating universal 'truths' about EV without having even driven one let alone owned one. The other excuse I read often is that they aren't suitable for people living in rural areas. Well I live over 300m up the side of a mountain in Snowdonia and ours is working out just fine.

Good for you. I found that part of Wales a bit of a pain when on hols tbh but we made do with a cable through the holiday cottage window. I do get a bit angsty when away from home but we’ve not had a serious no-charge incident yet.

The people I know who get on well with EVs are doing the sort of trips I do on my bike already, e.g. 2 km to supermarket, 10km to work. Then they congratulate themselves on how eco friendly they're being

@Frazzled2207
We did the same in Devon, which was fine as we weren't traveling much once down there. But it is less than ideal only being able to charge a near empty car slowly. I like having the option of being able to quickly (ish) get 10-20% on the car if needed using the faster charger at home.

We have a Tesla. We had a charging cable thing extended out of our utility room so we can charge at the back of our house. We also have solar panels so it is free to run. We drove from London to Kidderminster and stopped off once for a quick charge. We will do the same on the way home.

I don't think we would buy another Tesla as all repairs are so expensive but would probably look into another electric car as there are many more types out there now.

The people I know who get on well with EVs are doing the sort of trips I do on my bike already, e.g. 2 km to supermarket, 10km to work.

Good for you.

@YellowScallion

The people I know who get on well with EVs are doing the sort of trips I do on my bike already, e.g. 2 km to supermarket, 10km to work. Then they congratulate themselves on how eco friendly they're being

Talk about lazy stereotyping!!

We live rurally and have an EV. My nearest supermarket is a 15 mile round trip and my work is a 50 mile round trip. DH used to use it to do a daily commute of 90 miles in it (but is now permanently work from home since covid).

How is "people I know" a stereotype, it's literally people I know!

It's possible to own one and do ok without a drive/place to plug in at home if you live near a fast charger and don't mind visiting the supermarket a lot to top up!

I don't mind doing this and quite enjoy going and reading, listening to a podcast or watching some YouTube vids. it's a little form of escape for me.

Plus both of those are completely free for me because I have an older Tesla which has free supercharging (DC) and the supermarket near me has a free fast AC charger.

But this is me and my partner would be immensely frustrated if sorting it out was their responsibility.

We have used our car for all sorts, including holidays in Wales and two hour drives to a relative. But my (catchment) school runs, after school clubs and loc shops are along a 2 mile bike/walk unfriendly A road. I park and stride where I can to avoid being one of those evil people parking outside the school. You can't win on MN tho!

@SquirmOfEels

but apparently this benefit isn't as straightforward

It's not a benefit to eliminate noise, reduction is good, but can you really see any scenario where a noiseless car improved road safety?

It's another type of benefit. Noise pollution is damaging to humans and wildlife - we have birds singing during the night using up vital energy because they can't be heard during the day, for example. It's a known cause of ongoing stress to both and reducing constant background noise would affect considerably greater numbers of people and animals in a positive way than a few people not looking before stepping into the road.

Unless you've deliberately chosen to buy a house facing directly onto a dual carriageway, the flats overlooking London Bridge or just off a motorway slip road because you like the sound 24/7, you've made a decision to avoid traffic noise, thus demonstrating exactly why noise reduction from electric vehicles is a very real benefit.

[quote Frazzled2207]@cupsofcoffee
I know someone with no home chargepoint who drives several miles once a week to one and sits there reading her book for half an hour before driving back again. She enjoys the peace and quiet away from the children. Another person does similar and takes the dog for a walk nearby.
Apps tell you if they are taken or not.

Not everyone will want to do that, my point is that many that really want and EV can make it work. It will become easier in time and I hope accessible to the masses in a few years.

If we want to properly look after the planet we live in then we have to be prepared make changes to the way we live our life. Of course there’s lots of other changes we can all make as an alternative ! As I accept that EVs are not suitable/accessible for all families (yet).[/quote]
That's all fine - but what happens if you're close to running out, need to drive to get to work or an appointment and all the chargers are full? You're stuffed. Whereas with a petrol or diesel you just queue at the pump, fill up and go.

I'm not trying to be defeatist and I can see it works great for some people but for others it's just not a practical solution.

You plan ahead and make sure that if you’re going somewhere with no chargers you don’t get stuck there. We have to plan ahead all longer journeys- yeah a bit of a pain but like with many things you just get used to it.

Fwiw I was as against the idea as you were when dh first mentioned it. Am now a complete convert and will never go back. Three family members have now done the switch.

If you’re not ready, that’s totally fine too.