To think Electric cars just aren’t practical yet?

[Youngatheart00]

Car is due for replacement (4 year PCP cycle) this autumn.

I love the idea of getting an electric vehicle in theory, I’m trying to make clean choices and also worry about the future value / obsolescence of petrol cars as I’m hearing more and more about manufacturers going electric only well within the next decade.

But our home is a Victorian terrace with no parking. More often than not we are not even parked outside our own home. There isn’t charging infrastructure at most petrol stations. I see some at motorway service stations but clearly it’s not practical to go there each time you need a charge (and there is a greater cost I think?)

I’m drawing the conclusion I’m going to have to go for another petrol vehicle and revisit at the end of the next 4 year cycle, when I’m hoping the electric car infrastructure will be much better developed.

I’ve thought about a hybrid but models from my preferred manufacturers seem limited (and v expensive) and I’m concerned about power as I do like a bit of ‘oomph’ for confidence!

What do others think?

We need a big car to carry disabled DS and the kitchen sink everything around. We have street parking at home, so no charging there. When I return to the office, the car park has no charging points. And then when we go on holiday, it can be 350 miles fully laden, to a campsite or even a caravan park (think Haven) where there are no charging points.

I think we'll stick to petrol until EV or Hybrid become the only options (when we'll have a Hybrid through lack of choice).

@Youngatheart00

Sorry for the daft questions but how do the non plug in hybrids work? Do they charge as you drive with your petrol engine? Is there a real benefit? How much time do you use the electric vs your petrol engine?

Thanks for reassuring me - I am feeling real guilt about looking for buy another petrol car. I’m not sure refinancing my existing one is going to be cost effective as looking at the monthly payments on a 3 year loan id be paying the same as what I pay now, plus greater risk of repair bills now the car is getting older. Guess this is what the PCP schemes are designed to do, trap you!

We did it. Pcp then bought it. Worked really well for us and was due to be paid off September (except its been written off by a stupid drunk driver 😭)

My little petrol runabout, a 2006 bought cheap as chips in 2017, has just gone to car heaven. I also sometimes need a reasonably powerful tow vehicle or a long car to transport big musical instruments. For the past 4 years, I've had an agreement with a friend to borrow her tow vehicle when needed. She's also had to replace her car, so this agreement has now ended.

This time round, I was considering taking advantage of the (Scottish) government 0% loans towards used electric cars. But I quickly realised that the dealers appear to be pricing used cars (cynically, in my opinion) to take advantage of the maximum the loan can be. So the vehicles ranged from ca. £8k for a vehicle with only about a 50 mile range, which is no use, frankly, for country driving, to nearly the maximum £20k for a vehicle with a 140 mile range. It turns out my house electrics probably aren't up to installing a charge point, so I would have to use one at work. And I still wouldn't have a tow car! For a decent price, I've just bought a used low-mileage diesel 4x4 with excellent towing capacity and space for musical instruments. Since I don't have kids, I don't have to ferry other people about. So, my plan is to ride my e-bike day to day, and save the car for towing and shitty weather, as much as possible. In a few years, hopefully, they'll be farther along in terms of charging infrastructure, towing ability, and affordability, and I can reconsider then.

I gotta say, I love my e-bike (which I got during the first lockdown) for the sorts of short drives I have day to day!

Something needs to be done about people trailing their electric cables over the pavement from their house to their car.
Someone near me covers the cable with a heavy duty rubber cable cover, which creates an obstacle for my dad in his wheelchair who feels every bump. Another person just trails the cable which is a massive trip hazard.

And the incentives of eg cheaper parking permits are not sustainable - if the number of electric cars increases, that discount will have to go if councils are to maintain income, which covers the cost of residents’ parking schemes

'Doesn't the Tesla have an 'insane' mode? "

It does indeed, and if you're prepared to use about a third of your charge and leave a good portion of your tyre rubber on the tarmac it will teach you all you ever need to know about torque!

@ErrolTheDragon

Doesn't the Tesla have an 'insane' mode?

Apparently so. I can’t for the life of me think why anyone would need that, seems like nothing but a safety hazard. The Tesla seems to me like a strange mix of genuinely great design and completely pointless penis substitute features.

No way for me to charge at home but I can charge free at work as I work at a car dealership. Borrowed an I pace for a bit and that was lovely but out of my budget!

@shakingstevensfan

Everyone I know who has one has it as a second car. It can work then for shorter journeys.

Our EV is our only car. We regularly drive 460mile round trips (second home, yeah I know...). We stop after about 1.5-2 hours, which we normally would for a wee, food and for the dog to wee. Top the car up as we do this. 10-20 mins. No bother at all. We could do just one little top up as our range is 200miles but for the dog. We have driven to multiple EU countries as well as all over the UK, including rural. Apps tell you where to charge! Range anxiety is not a thing.

I'm very alarmed at the prospect of petrol cars being outlawed. We live in a fairly large town but there are 2 charging points. We are in a semi rural location, with no room to charge at home, I'd dread the thought of going anywhere too far away and running out of charge.

I think I will be giving up driving if they become compulsory.

Car is currently charging plugged into the socket next to the cooker, until we install a thingy. If there’s a plug socket, you can charge.

@RaraRachael

I'm very alarmed at the prospect of petrol cars being outlawed. We live in a fairly large town but there are 2 charging points. We are in a semi rural location, with no room to charge at home, I'd dread the thought of going anywhere too far away and running out of charge.

I think I will be giving up driving if they become compulsory.

Clearly, before petrol cars can be ‘outlawed’, a lot more charge points are going to need to be built. They’re not going to just do it tomorrow and have everyone in the country scrabbling to buy an EV and charge on the 2 charge points you mention.

I personally think 2025 or 2030 or whenever it is will be too soon, and the date will be pushed back. There’s a lot of work to be done.

@Sparrowsong

Car is currently charging plugged into the socket next to the cooker, until we install a thingy. If there’s a plug socket, you can charge.

Only if you have somewhere nearby to park.

Surely he needs to fill up on petrol on that journey? There will almost certainly be rapid chargers on that journey which are almost as quick

Probably not, many ICE cars have a range of 5-600 miles so he'll probably do both trips and some weekend running around on one tank. Plus it's extremely rare that you get to a petrol station and find that all of the fuel pumps that serve your car are out of use, which seems to be a common problem with electric. Several different charger variations and some are often broken.

When you're on the clock you can't be hunting round for charging points in the hope you'll find one that works.

I also don't want to be stopping for a 20 minute coffee break every time the car needs charging either.

I've been driving a self charging hybrid the last three years and it's no different to driving a normal petrol car other than being cheaper to run. I keep in mind in car parks that others cannot hear me but it was great when having to hang round outside activities waiting for daughters as I could keep the engine running to keep warm without it making a noise.

Pretty much everyone I work with have been early adopters and all have them as their only car and some without charging points at home but then we do have charging points at work which makes a big difference. The only reason I had a hybrid previously was because 3 years ago when I got my hybrid, the range was an issue.

However, that's not really the case now and I have a new e-niro on order which claims up to 282 miles on one charge and performed a real range test of 253 miles with What Car and so should be good to get me to Wales and back again (400 mile trip) in a day which I have to do a few times a year. I will be able to do that with just one stop off to charge and I usually stop off off for a 30 min break or so to eat and have a quick rest.

I will be getting a charger installed at home but could easily operate the car without that as it will generally only need charging once every two or three weeks. There is a really nice cafe near me whose owner has a Tesla and they have a charging point there they let customers use free of charge. Tesco allow free charging while you shop. There are charging points all over now and apps so you can see the nearest ones available.

The oomph of an electric car is scary - their acceleration is stomach lurching even on a smaller car. I've been in the leaf, a tesla and the bmw i3 and all are very quick off the mark. The i3 doesn't feel very sticky when cornering though. I put my hybrid into sport mode if I want quick acceleration but most of the time I'm happy to drive it in eco mode.

For you without the charging point at home, maybe it's not the right choice for you but for many people they really are a very practical choice now but each person has to do what is right for them.

@RaraRachael

I'm very alarmed at the prospect of petrol cars being outlawed. We live in a fairly large town but there are 2 charging points. We are in a semi rural location, with no room to charge at home, I'd dread the thought of going anywhere too far away and running out of charge.

I think I will be giving up driving if they become compulsory.

New petrol cars will stop being sold but the second hand market will continue for years.

There will probably be some around new petrol ones for limited exceptions (military, agriculture and some emergency services). Which will still find their way to the second hand market.

And I guess that VIP's armoured cars will,continue ICE, as the weight of the protective layer would really shorten battery life, and if you need that sort of cladding there are probably lots of reasons you won't want stops!

I live in an area with about 200 flats, no parking other than on street. I can imagine what it would be like with each parking place needing a charging point, plus you would get idiots unplugging cars & turn up to find your car's battery flat. Until they find a better system, maybe solar panels on each car roof then it isn't going to happen, electric cars are too expensive, most are out of reach to the average motorist.

@Nat6999

I live in an area with about 200 flats, no parking other than on street. I can imagine what it would be like with each parking place needing a charging point, plus you would get idiots unplugging cars & turn up to find your car's battery flat. Until they find a better system, maybe solar panels on each car roof then it isn't going to happen, electric cars are too expensive, most are out of reach to the average motorist.

I don’t think you can unplug my car without unlocking it first.

@Frazzled2207 so tough luck for anyone who wants a new car but has few charging points near them?

[quote shakingstevensfan]@Frazzled2207 so tough luck for anyone who wants a new car but has few charging points near them?[/quote]
I think you’ll be surprised how many there are and how quickly they are popping up, several thousand per year. However there are still areas which are excellent and sadly far too many dead zones (North Yorkshire being notable).

I admit it’s enormously easier (for now) if you have space for a home charge point.

@Frazzled2207 there is one at my local pub. I do not want to sit in the pub car park for 20 minutes. In my parent's town, I would have to drive 5 miles from their house to a supermarket to charge up. I never go to the supermarket when visiting them. My in-laws live in a village. I would have to drive 30 miles to the train station to charge up the car. The village has an old garage with one old petrol pump, so you can get petrol in the village.
It is all possible, but it is a pain. And the cars are so expensive.

@Nat6999

I live in an area with about 200 flats, no parking other than on street. I can imagine what it would be like with each parking place needing a charging point, plus you would get idiots unplugging cars & turn up to find your car's battery flat. Until they find a better system, maybe solar panels on each car roof then it isn't going to happen, electric cars are too expensive, most are out of reach to the average motorist.

Exactly this. ^

@Nat6999

I live in an area with about 200 flats, no parking other than on street. I can imagine what it would be like with each parking place needing a charging point, plus you would get idiots unplugging cars & turn up to find your car's battery flat. Until they find a better system, maybe solar panels on each car roof then it isn't going to happen, electric cars are too expensive, most are out of reach to the average motorist.

Exactly this.. ^

@Frazzled2207 You are being very unrealistic. Many people have no room for their own charging point.

Expecting everyone in the UK to have all electric cars by 2030 is laughable. It will be another 25-30 years (minimum,) before they have the infrastructure, and enough charging points etc. Not everyone has got the space for their own charging point, the charge doesn't give enough miles for what many people are going to want, it takes too long to charge, and the price of electric cars is too high. Most people simply cannot afford it.

I can count on the fingers of one hand, the amount of people I know who have had a brand new 'off the forecourt' car in the last decade. Most people I know spend £3,000 to £7,500 on a car. And the average price is £4,500 to £5000. Even the few people I know who have bought a new car (or one less than 2 years old) in the last few years, have spent £12 to £16K. Not the £27K- 30K plus that an electric car will cost.

And as for those 3 or 4 people who spent £12K to £16K on a nearly new - or new car - it costs them a FORTUNE. They never seem to have any bloody money, as the car drains them. The car payments are around £250 a month, the insurance is around £60 to £80 a month, (and that's on top of the petrol that costs some £200 a month, and the car tax, of £20-30 a month.)

And even at the end of the 4 or 5 years of finance, they have to pay fat lump sum of £4K to 5K, if they want to keep the car. And at that point it's worth around a third of what they paid for it 4 or 5 years before!

So the very idea that the British public - many who are quite poor/have limited funds/are only just above the poverty line - will go into debt for £25K to £30K for an electric car - is farcical. Moreover, many of them would simply not get the finance for one. Leaving car ownership, for privileged and wealthy people only...

There are SOOOO many things going against the UK being all-electric with cars. It won't happen in the next 30 years, let alone the next 9!