To think Electric cars just aren’t practical yet?

[Youngatheart00]

Car is due for replacement (4 year PCP cycle) this autumn.

I love the idea of getting an electric vehicle in theory, I’m trying to make clean choices and also worry about the future value / obsolescence of petrol cars as I’m hearing more and more about manufacturers going electric only well within the next decade.

But our home is a Victorian terrace with no parking. More often than not we are not even parked outside our own home. There isn’t charging infrastructure at most petrol stations. I see some at motorway service stations but clearly it’s not practical to go there each time you need a charge (and there is a greater cost I think?)

I’m drawing the conclusion I’m going to have to go for another petrol vehicle and revisit at the end of the next 4 year cycle, when I’m hoping the electric car infrastructure will be much better developed.

I’ve thought about a hybrid but models from my preferred manufacturers seem limited (and v expensive) and I’m concerned about power as I do like a bit of ‘oomph’ for confidence!

What do others think?

@cupsofcoffee

There seem to be a lot of posters on this thread who have absolutely NO idea how privileged they are.

People saying 21k for a car is cheap, or that they're "only" £200-300 per month to lease. It's bonkers. That is so far outside most people's budgets it's almost laughable.

Agreed - this is why I was asking about costs of purchase.

As ever - if you have cash to spend, you can save on other costs, if not, you're stuck.

A friend justified the higher up front costs of an electric vehicle by offsetting it against the savings to be made on fuel. Of course in the past year they haven't gone anywhere, so whereas in the past they would have saved a huge amount in fuel if not using the car, this year they're paying an expensive lease cost for a car that's mostly been sat on the driveway.

Since buying it it has cost him pennies - hasn't needed any servicing or tax and he can charge for free at a Tesco near his house.
According to Nissan it should be serviced annually or each 18,000 miles - so he must've had it less than a year or not bothering. It will still need an MOT from 3 years old too.

BiL's Leaf does about that much (several years old). Since buying it it has cost him pennies - hasn't needed any servicing

They should be serviced every 18,000 miles.

I guess you're pointing at me there. I paid £21k for a car. @FooFighter99 said she pays £202 a month. Where did we say that was cheap? please quote.

I wasn't referring to you at all!

I was referring to @Blossomtoes who said a Yaris was 21k and that you could easily get "2-3k off that" as if 18k is so much more affordable!

Those costs are just so outside my normal that it's insane to me that people have that amount of cash to spare on a vehicle. 18k is more than I earn in a year and people will spend that on a car - to me it's just bonkers money.

Anyway, like a PP said, it's the same as it's always been - if you have money, you can save money. If you don't, your choices will always cost you more in the long run.

@cupsofcoffee

I guess you're pointing at me there. I paid £21k for a car. @FooFighter99 said she pays £202 a month. Where did we say that was cheap? please quote.

I wasn't referring to you at all.

was referring to @Blossomtoes who said a Yaris was 21k and that you could easily get "2-3k off that" as if 18k is so much more affordable!

Those costs are just so outside my normal that it's insane to me that people have that amount of cash to spare on a vehicle. 18k is more than I earn in a year and people will spend that on a car - to me it's just bonkers money.

Anyway, like a PP said, it's the same as it's always been - if you have money, you can save money. If you don't, your choices will always cost you more in the long run.

Also Blossomtoes wasn't talking about an electric car. I can't find any new electric car for £18k.

Also Blossomtoes wasn't talking about an electric car. I can't find any new electric car for £18k.

To be fair, she did say it was 21k and that you could probably haggle to get 2-3k off the price.

Google tells me you can get a Toyota Yaris hybrid for just over 19k.

www.drivingelectric.com/toyota/yaris/1374/new-toyota-yaris-hybrid-2020-uk-prices-and-specs-confirmed

I only went for a lease car as I was paying almost as much per month for a 2009 ford focus that was horrendously bad on fuel and was going to cost me ££££ to keep it running

I know I am lucky to be able to afford the lease scheme, and it's out of the reach of some people

There's no way I could afford a brand new car otherwise, and the eGolf is a superb car with more than enough range for my daily/weekly commute so to answer the OP's original point, it is practical for me and my situation

The problem with EV's for most people is that the national infrastructure isn't what it needs to be. I travelled to the lakes a few weeks ago and had to charge on the way there, using one of the Apps (Zap-Map) I found a convenient place to stop, but it only had 1 fast charger (that still took 40 minutes) and the other one was a slow one that would have taken 3+ hours

It's not realistic to plan that long of a stop into a journey like that (90 miles, but motorway driving really depletes your range), so they really need to be upgrading and installing charging points everywhere

[quote cupsofcoffee]Also Blossomtoes wasn't talking about an electric car. I can't find any new electric car for £18k.

To be fair, she did say it was 21k and that you could probably haggle to get 2-3k off the price.

Google tells me you can get a Toyota Yaris hybrid for just over 19k.

www.drivingelectric.com/toyota/yaris/1374/new-toyota-yaris-hybrid-2020-uk-prices-and-specs-confirmed[/quote]
Indeed but not to labour the point - that isn't a pure electric car - it still has a petrol engine.

Well having just returned from a trip to our local tip in my Leaf ,which has a surprisingly roomy boot, I have come back feeling sick and with a blinding headache.There was a huge queue but once in it there was no turning round.The fumes from all the cars idling their engines idling actually made me really angry.No car comes without a cost to the environment.That is a fact.But what about air quality ?And I haven't read the whole thread but a common misconception is if you are stuck in a traffic jam you run out of range.No because when you're stationary you're using no power -other than if you have the heating on .And that is minimal.Plus I love the recharge facility that means when you brake or go downhill energy is kicked back into the battery.Servicing is much cheaper as a fraction of parts to check compared to an engine.I don't miss pumping fuel in and when charging up at service stations on longer journeys were always ready for a loo stop and to stretch legs and factor in a half hour stop.
Obviously having a drive and home charger was a big deciding factor.But as for cost our monthly payments are no more than comparable diesel/petrol car.I wouldn't drive any else now.And several other family members are EV drivers.And we're by no means a wealthy family.

We have one electric and one petrol. I would love to go all electric - the car has been fantastic - saves loads on fuel, servicing etc. We don't have problems charging - lots places have chargers supermarket and car parks. If we are going on a longer journey we do plan stops around chargers (if going 300 miles plus)
Electric has definitely taken off the last couple years and we found it much cheaper to buy electric than another petrol when looking at all costs

I have an old leaf, and I love it.

It cost me £10k at 4.5years old and, if I drive it for 5 years I’ll have saved it’s purchase price in fuel. It costs me pennies to top up, from a 3 pin plug in the wall, occasional rapid charge when necessary.

The average daily mileage in the Uk is 28 miles, according to the RAC foundation- plenty for even a first generation Japanese import.

So if you have access to off street parking, (or work place charging (government will provide grants to businesses for this), or your local council applies to OLEV there is also funding there).... and you are not commuting high miles every single day I cannot get my head round why you’d be so resistant... obviously there are going to be outliers- those that commute 500 miles several times per week etc but, come on!! That’s not the reality for most people.

We need a huge shift in the way people expect a right to endless consumption without shouldering any responsibility for the negative externalities.

People claiming that they’d like the option to drive 400 miles non stop on an unexpected whim and stomping their feet that it’s not possible to do are going to doom us all.

Honestly, threads like these make me rethink the view that a green leviathan would be a bad thing.

Average daily mileages conceal so much variation though. My DP drives 70 miles round trip to work every day. My parents travel about 4 miles a week in their car (and yes I know it makes zero sense for them to have a car).

I suspect us living very rurally will continue to pay the price to support those lucky enough with decent infrastructure

@DrunkenUnicorn

I have an old leaf, and I love it.

It cost me £10k at 4.5years old and, if I drive it for 5 years I’ll have saved it’s purchase price in fuel. It costs me pennies to top up, from a 3 pin plug in the wall, occasional rapid charge when necessary.

The average daily mileage in the Uk is 28 miles, according to the RAC foundation- plenty for even a first generation Japanese import.

So if you have access to off street parking, (or work place charging (government will provide grants to businesses for this), or your local council applies to OLEV there is also funding there).... and you are not commuting high miles every single day I cannot get my head round why you’d be so resistant... obviously there are going to be outliers- those that commute 500 miles several times per week etc but, come on!! That’s not the reality for most people.

We need a huge shift in the way people expect a right to endless consumption without shouldering any responsibility for the negative externalities.

People claiming that they’d like the option to drive 400 miles non stop on an unexpected whim and stomping their feet that it’s not possible to do are going to doom us all.

Honestly, threads like these make me rethink the view that a green leviathan would be a bad thing.

The reality is that you're very, very lucky to be able to spend 10k on a car in the first place. The vast majority of people don't have access to that kind of money.

So for me, the benefits you list are irrelevant because I can't afford to spend that amount in the first place.

As always, the rich can afford to save money. It's expensive to be poor.

To the poster who commented that the battery lifespan isn’t very long, that’s not true at all.
This (carefully edited for personal info) is from a Renault Zoe group I am in (as I also own one). The owner had recently posted that the battery was at 96% health at the last service (so practically all cells complete and functioning correctly).
The battery will be returned to Renault who will check it for damage, then it will be used for energy storage.

that was me. I talked about the guaranteed mileage the battery lasts for your average electric car and I said that the top of the range ones are guaranteed for far longer. But most people do not have a top of the range petrol car and won't have a top of the range electric car.

@Pinkroseuk

We have one electric and one petrol. I would love to go all electric - the car has been fantastic - saves loads on fuel, servicing etc. We don't have problems charging - lots places have chargers supermarket and car parks. If we are going on a longer journey we do plan stops around chargers (if going 300 miles plus) Electric has definitely taken off the last couple years and we found it much cheaper to buy electric than another petrol when looking at all costs

Thank you for sharing this sensible and real world view. We have experienced similar and have done three long journeys in ours by planning, we've found the Ionity chargers though few and far between are amazingly quick).

Interestingly with our model the range of 200 miles per charge was quite conservative - we now are seeing 270+ with mixed use which is extraordinary when you consider that the general impression is the other way round (range anxiety).

@Ginuwine
That’s fab. Our range is 130 which is fine for us but I can see how that might make some anxious. Anything 200+ is brilliant.

@shakingstevensfan

that was me. I talked about the guaranteed mileage the battery lasts for your average electric car and I said that the top of the range ones are guaranteed for far longer. But most people do not have a top of the range petrol car and won't have a top of the range electric car.

I honestly don’t know what you mean by guaranteed mileage. Most cars have a max mileage when nee and also a real world one - poss 10% less which takes into account heating/air con etc and the fact that it takes a bit more power to up hills. Going at 60 will save far more power than going at 80. Nothing is guaranteed on any EV. It depends how you drive. If you like having your heating on Max all the time it won’t last very long at all.

Top or bottom of the range, car batteries all lose their strength a bit in time. The newer ones on the market now however only expect a modest decrease over say 10 years. To the extent that replacing the battery is not likely to be a regular “thing”, at least anytime soon.

[quote Frazzled2207]@Ginuwine
That’s fab. Our range is 130 which is fine for us but I can see how that might make some anxious. Anything 200+ is brilliant.[/quote]

130 miles is more than enough for most purposes, it's amazing how far the tech has come!

I appreciate there are a lot of examples on this thread of people making 250+ mile trips to family etc so that would still be a challenge. Yet as a PP said the average daily mileage people do is tiny.

We do regular trips from where we are (South East) to the North East, so we needed the mileage capability. I'm glad to say it's been fine for us so far: the acceleration of these things is truly astonishing at times.

@Frazzled2207 the car manufacturers themselves say how long the battery will last in terms of mileage. I appreciate depending on how you use the car, it may be longer.
People currently buying electric cars are those either with a lot of money to spend on a new car or leasing a car. So the time the battery will last will not be an issue for them. It does become an issue on the second-hand market. And yes you do need to replace batteries on petrol cars too, but this is not that expensive. Electric car batteries are very expensive.
The difference it makes is that I would not touch second-hand early generation electric cars. I would buy second hand of the latest technology.

I appreciate there are a lot of examples on this thread of people making 250+ mile trips to family etc so that would still be a challenge. Yet as a PP said the average daily mileage people do is tiny

Well the main concern for me, which hardly seems to get a mention is when I do a 250+ trip for work because I need to also make appointments on time and often complete all those miles and appointments within a single day which is already more than long enough.

It's fine to take all day to do those miles when you're going on holiday or seeing family because you can plan in breaks and take as long as you like. But not when I have to be at company A 200 miles away at 11 am, spend a couple of hours with company A before making my way to company B 50 miles away, get some lunch on the way and then drive maybe 230 miles home and charge the car again on the way. Whereas normally I would set off with a full tank of fuel that took me 5 minutes to acquire and not have to worry about it again until the next day. I might normally have a quick toilet stop during each journey and maybe buy coffee but 10 minutes not 20-40.

What would work is if my clients would allow me to charge the car when I'm with them, which some might do and might be something I have to look into especially as my organisation has taken it on themselves to say that all new company cars will be electric (I currently don't have a company car due to a slight job change and covid impact that means currently business and personal travel is a lot less than usual so I'm just on a cheap run around for now, to avoid being one of those with a £200 pm liability sitting on the drive barely used). However, this is just them announcing new policies without consulting staff or thinking about how it will impact the business and completely ignoring my department that has different things to achieve than the organisation in general.

As it happens, the other day, I used a new hybrid hire car earlier this week and it used about 50% more fuel than my own allegedly thirsty old petrol car would have for the same journey. I would certainly be annoyed if I'd bought/leased one of those expecting to save money on fuel and it not happening.

@BarbaraofSeville
I totally get that that an EV is not going to be practical for journeys like this, unless you can rely on charging it when you Get to your client. But frankly, and I’m not blaming you for doing what you’re told and presumably enjoy doing, it just isn’t going to be sustainable in the future for many of us to be doing that amount of driving. We (and I’m looking at companies here more than individuals) are just going to have to find more energy efficient ways of working.