To think Electric cars just aren’t practical yet?

[Youngatheart00]

Car is due for replacement (4 year PCP cycle) this autumn.

I love the idea of getting an electric vehicle in theory, I’m trying to make clean choices and also worry about the future value / obsolescence of petrol cars as I’m hearing more and more about manufacturers going electric only well within the next decade.

But our home is a Victorian terrace with no parking. More often than not we are not even parked outside our own home. There isn’t charging infrastructure at most petrol stations. I see some at motorway service stations but clearly it’s not practical to go there each time you need a charge (and there is a greater cost I think?)

I’m drawing the conclusion I’m going to have to go for another petrol vehicle and revisit at the end of the next 4 year cycle, when I’m hoping the electric car infrastructure will be much better developed.

I’ve thought about a hybrid but models from my preferred manufacturers seem limited (and v expensive) and I’m concerned about power as I do like a bit of ‘oomph’ for confidence!

What do others think?

@Twoforthree

They are bloody dangerous as you can’t hear them. They need some sound put in them. I saw someone nearly step out in front of one this weekend, as they moved right to the side of the pavement to let someone pass. Fortunately the car coming up behind them, was going slowly to avoid the parked cars, but they were mm from the arm of the person. Had they actually put a foot into the road, as many of us do to make room on the pavement, they’d have been hit.

They have an artificial engine sound so you can hear them.

The most important thing, which you've not mentioned is mileage.

I managed for a year without a home charger in my model 3 (other, cheaper EVs are available.....) I commute 100m round trip per day and charged for about an hour every other day at a local 50kW charger.

Cost for the first 19,000 miles - £0.00. Equivalent cost for diesel £2700.

If you're only doing 200miles a week on average, I'd say an hour once a week at a rapid charger is a worthwhile trade-off, if you're doing much more than that, then you really need a home or workplace charger.

Like I said, I did much more than that, but, I had a laptop and work to do that would have just got done at home, or the option of netflix, while I was charging.

I have a non plug in hybrid for the same reason (street parking only). Wanted an electric car but didn't seem practical. We got a Toyota Yaris hybrid and I would recommend. It operates the same as a petrol car, the only difference is it uses less petrol.

@Youngatheart00

Sorry for the daft questions but how do the non plug in hybrids work? Do they charge as you drive with your petrol engine? Is there a real benefit? How much time do you use the electric vs your petrol engine?

Thanks for reassuring me - I am feeling real guilt about looking for buy another petrol car. I’m not sure refinancing my existing one is going to be cost effective as looking at the monthly payments on a 3 year loan id be paying the same as what I pay now, plus greater risk of repair bills now the car is getting older. Guess this is what the PCP schemes are designed to do, trap you!

We have a self charging hybrid and it basically puts any access energy into the electric motor, so when we break or generally take your foot off the accelerator.

We use almost 100% electric if just driving around town, if you’re doing under 40 ish and are smooth then you can keep it in elec mode.

We do a large enough mixture of short journeys and longer ones on faster roads which means we generally have enough elec. for the slower journeys to be electric.

We have noticed a big difference with how often we have to fill up and definitely use less fuel despite having a larger car.

Your parking situation seems to be the part that would make it hard to run an all electric car, though we know a few people who just run an extension cable out of their letter box, but that still only works if you can park infront of your house fairly often.

I don’t think it’s true that you need a petrol car for long journeys though, the motorway and cross country infrastructure is really good now. We have family that have fully made the switch. One has an EV with about 250 miles of range which is generally far enough for wherever they want to go, the other has less range but haven’t found it a problem when driving long distances, they still stop at motorway services the same amount as they did before.

I agree at the moment you need a drive to charge. The new electric cars go for 200 miles plus so there’s no need to charge anywhere else unless you are going on holiday etc. And the motorways have excellent charging networks. Hopefully in the future they’ll be quick charging points at all petrol stations so it won’t be a problem for houses without driveways.

I don’t think they would work for us. As a large family that goes camping with only on street parking it would be a lot of wasted time going to charging points and the possible extra time added onto trips if we needed to stop and charge part way though.

If you definitely need a car I would go for a hybrid in your circumstances. They cost more but are cheaper to run.

People wanting an electric car but lacking off-street parking could try getting in touch with their council and asking them about plans to put in more EV infrastructure, or pressuring them for more charging points. Many are ecologically-minded and might consider installing chargers if they think residents want them.

Ubitricity have a scheme where they install plug-in chargers on existing lampposts, so there's no need for more street furniture. They do a deal with the council - I'm not sure how the funding is arranged. Tell your council!

Guess this is what the PCP schemes are designed to do, trap you!

Exactly. It is a terrible, terrible scheme designed to benefit manufacturers who want to sell people new cars very regularly. Just hand the PCP car back, and buy a nearly new car with a normal loan and drive it for at least 10 years. Way cheaper, and way more environmentally friendly.

[quote Youngatheart00]@Twoforthree yes!! I totally agree about the danger of not hearing the car engine. I wonder what the solution is there.....[/quote]
You could always legislate to say a man has to walk in front of it with a red warning flag!😁

I have a hybrid and I love it.

The best of both worlds, easy to refuel but not as often as a petrol engine.

It might be worth you having a look at the various hybrids, the battery is charged when you are driving.

Thanks for reassuring me - I am feeling real guilt about looking for buy another petrol car. I’m not sure refinancing my existing one is going to be cost effective as looking at the monthly payments on a 3 year loan id be paying the same as what I pay now, plus greater risk of repair bills now the car is getting older. Guess this is what the PCP schemes are designed to do, trap you!

Yes, if you are not in a position to get an electric car, then the next best clean decision would be to keep the car you have.

I really feel like PCP is just designed to keep people consuming, except its on a big scale.

If everyone just bought the car they could afford and kept it until it was no longer feasible/safe to drive, it would still probably have a way smaller carbon footprint, even if they were all petrol cars.

Diesel is an interesting one, if so clean why are they so unpopular now? Is it a PR / trust issue as a legacy of the VW emissions scandal?
Ignorance.
Some smaller diesels are now arguably more environmentally friendly (and certainly more economical) than some petrol (plug-in) hybrids.

dieselinformation.aecc.eu/new-data-shows-modern-diesel-emissions-are-comparable-with-petrol/

Same op, I quite fancied jumping on the electric bandwagon this time round as my car is up but dealer has suggested I wait till next time round and they don't do an electric version in the model I wanted anyway.

Also I've just stopped at a service station where all the electric points were taken up. You'd be fucked then wouldn't you.

@bridgetreilly

Actually, a 10 year old car is not the better environmental option.
Read this
www.greencarreports.com/news/1093657_buying-a-new-car-is-greener-than-driving-an-old-one-really

@Letsgetreadytocrumble
You’d think an older car has a much smaller carbon footprint, but it doesn’t.
www.greencarreports.com/news/1093657_buying-a-new-car-is-greener-than-driving-an-old-one-really

Yeah, that's an article from 2014 based on a report from 2000 looking at older cars built in the 1980s. And even then it says: "These figures vary--a more recent Volkswagen study suggests that with vehicle efficiency rising steadily, 68 percent of the car's lifetime emissions came from driving it, while the manufacturing process accounts for a higher 22 percent."

I'd be very surprised if it were still true today, based on older cars from 2010 onwards.

@Soontobe60 the 'older cars' it is referring to in that article are 30 odd year old cars built in the 80s/90s, which obviously were inefficient and had worse emissions. Emissions laws have been strict for a pretty long time now and a 10 year old car will certainly be much more environmentally friendly than a 30 year old car, which is what the article seems to be referring to (it doesn't really define what is meant by 'old' and 'new' in the article).

Plus, what happens to all these 'new' PCP cars when people have got bored of them and traded them in for something even newer? Don't they become someone else's 'old' car then anyway?

PCP is not the point of the thread, but I would tax PCP payments sooner than increasing fuel duty. It is unreasonable that each year, rail and bus fares go up, but the tax on cars has not.

We need a big car to fit all our kids in and looked at electric 7 seaters and they were just prohibitively expensive.

PCP payments are taxed, insofar as the cost of the (financed) car has VAT at 20% added to it. Plus the salary you use to pay the payments is also taxed. Plus there is an interest margin to pay. So it’s not really as cost effective as we might think!

I had a company car for a while but the benefit in kind tax ended up being a killer / not worth it.

We got a hybrid, because we do too many long journeys for fully electric to be reasonable at the moment.

No drive, but there are lamppost charging points on our street, so it's working for us.

OP: if it's possible, get a test drive - I don't know what your idea of 'oomph' is, but I don't think our car is lacking!

Don’t worry about “oomph”. DH’s Leaf gives it some serious welly pulling out, much more than my car, I have to remember not to put my foot down too much when I’m driving his!

We will be getting one next year.
I wasn’t sure before but now there are so many more charging points and the cars have a better range I am confident it’s the right decision
We will buy one via our business as there are some good incentives too.
We do have our own driveway though, I don’t think I would get one if I didn’t - there was a story in the local paper about a man with one who had to run a charging cable with 2 extensions along the street and people were tripping over it and/or unplugging it

How long are these journeys that people are going on that an electric car won't do and you definitely won't be stopping on??

Ours does 280 miles. Ok we'd never push it that far and I'd certainly be charging after about 200 miles but I can't think of a single journey of 200 miles that I've ever done where I haven't stopped for the loo and to at least grab a coffee. In that time, the car charges.

We did a long-ish journey on Saturday. We did almost 150 miles, were in the car for over 3 and half hours (thanks M5 bank holiday traffic!) and we arrived with 50% charge.

The people perpetuating the myth that electric cars can't go far without charging really don't help thread like this!

Charging points is a fair concern. We have a charger at home so it's not an issue but obviously for many it still is a huge barrier. The super charging stations are starting to appear on motorways but they're often not at conventional services so unless you're looking for them, you might think they don't exist yet but it will take time for the charging network to properly cater for those who can't charge easily in their day to day life.