Cyclists without helmets

[Freedi8]

Driving around my local town today which was heaving and was quite lovely to see everybody having a good time.

Anyway, as we were driving, there were 3 cyclists who didn't appear to be experienced cyclists - 2 men and a woman.

They were riding in the middle of the road, they had no helmets on, they were trying to over take cars when cars were turning (a few near misses from different cars), they were weaving in and out of cars, and they were not concentrating on the road but pointing at buildings as they cycled in the middle of the road.

The thing is, we would sigh a sigh of relief whenever we got past them, just for them to catch up at traffic lights.

The worst 2 incidents were:
The man and woman got through an amber traffic light turning right and it turned red before their friend got through. Their friend decided to go through the red light and almost got hit by an oncoming car.

Second was, in a queue of traffic lights ready to turn left, when the cyclists come through on the left side of the cars and as i'm about to turn left they coming straight past me on the left side wanting to turn right.

My patience was wearing a thin and I couldn't believe they weren't wearing helmets when they were riding their bikes with such carelessness.

Well, we were walking the dog today and a very experienced cyclist (all the gear, Mamil, helmet, clip-on pedal shoes Etc.) rode through our red-lit pelican crossing as we were crossing while the beeps were sounding, narrowly missing us! The helmet missing is the last thing you should be worried about, OP, and rather the sense of entitlement that allows some cyclists to believe that the law doesn’t apply to them!

If I had a pound for every car I see jumping red lights....and way more lethal

I wonder if they were hire bikes? They probably wouldn’t own helmets let alone wear them.

Plenty of cyclists are killed by left turning vehicles, not because they are 'dangerously undertaking' the vehicle but because the vehicle has come up behind them whilst st traffic lights. In slow moving traffic, motorists should ideally leave enough space on the left for cyclists to get through to the front where it is safer. Make space for cyclists and stop victim blaming

OP you give space for cyclists, many don't. Your concern comes across as yet another person having a go at cyclists, instead of the 20% or more fellow motorists who should not have a licence (in my opinion). There are bad cyclists but they are a very small number compared to bad drivers.

It's pretty sad that you didn't have anything better to do on a beautiful bank holiday at the tail end of a pandemic, than moan about cyclists

Seems like their lack of helmets was the least of their problems! Unfortunately poor cycling is a real problem and is seriously annoying when you need to get places around here. School hols today so I'm expecting my commute to take a lot longer due to the inevitable mamils struggling on the hill you cannot overtake on (near coast so they go out early morning for their ride)

On the face of it it seems quite simple. People are doing an activity you perceive as dangerous. You think a law mandating helmets would help. What's the problem?

Only 3 countries in the World have blanket helmet wearing made mandatory, along with other regions and partial laws. There is no evidence that these laws have reduced head injury:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7214375Nooclearevidenceefromcountriessthathaveeenforcedtheewearingoffhelmets

People who work with head injuries all day are generally more likely to have confirmation bias and ask for compulsion. The picture is much bigger though, and for a lot of more casual cyclists wearing a helmet is a barrier to what is a generally safe activity. Even if you did reduce head injuries you'd likely end up with more other health complications associated with lack of exercise.

I know it's annoying when people on bikes ride like twats and break laws. Mostly the people who do this are only risking themselves though. Even with all the laws around motoring we still have around 1million uninsured drivers, plenty of bad and antisocial driving, law breaking, and tens of thousands injured and killed a year by cars. If you drive yourself though, you know you drive lawfully, so it's easy to 'other' cyclists and lump them all together.

As for other things that crop up like licensing, number plates etc. No other country bothers with this really. It would be vastly expensive, impossible to implement or enforce, and achieve nothing. Given the lack of police enforcing traffic offences do you think they have the time and resources to stop helmetless people on bikes?

There are a great many things that could be done to reduce numbers of cyclist injuries and encourage more activity. Helmets are not one. Countries like Holland have massively more people using bikes, virtually none wearing helmets, but a lot fewer head injuries. The difference is culture and infrastructure, not pointless laws.

To me, there are two causes: firstly, bad drivers, who are unfamiliar with cyclists, don't give them enough space, forget to look out for them, etc. The amount of times a car wants to take a left turn, and in the process overtakes me and cuts me off! There is also lack of knowledge of cyclists' rights on the road, such as the notion that cyclists can't drive in the middle of the lane, but have to stay as far to the left as possible, which is patently untrue. They can take the same road positioning as a car, and it is often even recommended, exactly to prevent passing when there is actually no space for it. With a cyclist in the middle of the lane, cars will need to ensure there is sufficient space to pass, as if passing another car.

Secondly, poor cyclist behaviour. In some Western European countries with a proper cycle culture, none of the cyclists feel the need to go 'fast', and every driver is also a cyclist and hence knows what to look out for. Whenever I cycle to work here in the UK, I see people on fast road bikes, in lycra, breaking a sweat to get to work. Aggressively pushing forwards, cycling through red lights, positioning themselves on intersections far past their traffic light stop, etc. Behaving badly and inconsiderately. This happens much, much less in countries like the Netherlands or Denmark, where you can see business men in their nice suit cycle in, mums bringing their kids to school, etc. It is not a race, nor a form of physical exercise where you want to push yourself, just a convenient mode of transportation.

I visited Amsterdam, where practically nobody wears a helmet, not even the children (the cyclists who do are usually not locals). They do wear them when going on road bikes for a fast cycle for fitness purposes through the countryside, but not for getting around town, doing groceries, picking up their kids from school, etc. You only need to wear helmets if you are at risk of falling, and since cars are aware of you and your speed is low, there is no social expectation to wear one.

Both UK drivers and cyclists need to change behaviour to interact safely on the road.

Most of it is standard annoying fare - lack of helmets, running a red. Not excusable, dangerous but 🤷🏻‍♀️

But the turning right from the left hand side? That is completely ridiculous and just utterly incomprehensibly stupid.

When I cycle, in town, I basically take the primary position on the road because I’m easily as fast as the main traffic given you can do 25-30mph on a road bike without issue and there’s traffic lights everywhere anyway. They have no reason to over take me, and they don’t. Only a couple of times have I been beeped - always by an angry man in a transit, but I’m doing the speed limit or extremely close to it so it’s water of a ducks back. I doubt they would beep a car doing 27 mph in a 30. This means I’m always in the right position for turns.

Anyway, long story short you’re absolutely right - they should have moved out into the main part of the road and indicated they were turning right. It’s insane they didn’t.

@Notjustanymum

Well, we were walking the dog today and a very experienced cyclist (all the gear, Mamil, helmet, clip-on pedal shoes Etc.) rode through our red-lit pelican crossing as we were crossing while the beeps were sounding, narrowly missing us! The helmet missing is the last thing you should be worried about, OP, and rather the sense of entitlement that allows some cyclists to believe that the law doesn’t apply to them!

Well, we were out walking toddler in the pushchair last week, and a very experienced motorist (number plate, insurance, VED etc.) drove through our red-lit pelican crossing while the beeps were sounding, narrowly missing us! The helmet missing was the last thing you should be worried about, OP, and rather the sense of entitlement that allows some motorists to believe the law doesn't apply to them!

Same situation. One has a 100kg mass though, one has a 2000kg mass.

The most entitled road users are the ones in motorised vehicles, god forbid their journey is hampered or slowed by a more vulnerable road user

A study has shown that drivers are more aware and more careful of cyclists not wearing helmets, but it is extremely sensible to wear one.
The thing that most worries me is cyclists road craft (or lack of) and visibility - dark clothing, zero lights - twilight etc. It's worse with the electric scooters that have zero helmets, no lights or d cent Vis clothing and will weave through traffic however they please, either side of cars and vans, including lights and junctions.
Many on bikes/scooters are also plugged into their earpods/cans so hampered by not being aurally in touch with their surroundings.
What annoys me the most is that if I get caught out and come into contact with any of them it will be me that's liable :(

The OP should steer clear of Amsterdam then - thousands of them zooming around, not a helmet to be seen. ‘Best’ we saw - one of our party had a near miss with her - was a woman zooming along, not only with no helmet, but also holding a young baby in one arm! 😱

I think the OP is getting a hard time here. It is frustrating to see some cyclists who don't concentrate on what is happening around them and put their trust in the misplaced assumption that all drivers will be mindful of them. The vast majority of cyclists I see are just trying to get from A to B as safely as possible, but you do see some absolute plonkers and wonder how they survive.

When I was a child, my dad was hit by a lorry while on his bicycle and ended up with life long injuries, so I am extra cautious around cyclists. My dad was not wearing a helmet - nobody did back then - but it wouldn't have helped anyway, as he suffered a crushed pelvis.

Someone I used to work with who was a keen cyclist said the best thing to do was to pretend every cyclist was a tractor, taking up the same amount of space on the road as a tractor. So, be patient and wait until there is a safe time to pass and give them a wide berth while passing. You wouldn't skim past a tractor, unless you were an idiot.

@Bananarama101

On the face of it it seems quite simple. People are doing an activity you perceive as dangerous. You think a law mandating helmets would help. What's the problem?

Only 3 countries in the World have blanket helmet wearing made mandatory, along with other regions and partial laws. There is no evidence that these laws have reduced head injury:

[[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7214375]]Nooclearevidenceefromcountriessthathaveeenforcedtheewearingoffhelmets

People who work with head injuries all day are generally more likely to have confirmation bias and ask for compulsion. The picture is much bigger though, and for a lot of more casual cyclists wearing a helmet is a barrier to what is a generally safe activity. Even if you did reduce head injuries you'd likely end up with more other health complications associated with lack of exercise.

I know it's annoying when people on bikes ride like twats and break laws. Mostly the people who do this are only risking themselves though. Even with all the laws around motoring we still have around 1million uninsured drivers, plenty of bad and antisocial driving, law breaking, and tens of thousands injured and killed a year by cars. If you drive yourself though, you know you drive lawfully, so it's easy to 'other' cyclists and lump them all together.

As for other things that crop up like licensing, number plates etc. No other country bothers with this really. It would be vastly expensive, impossible to implement or enforce, and achieve nothing. Given the lack of police enforcing traffic offences do you think they have the time and resources to stop helmetless people on bikes?

There are a great many things that could be done to reduce numbers of cyclist injuries and encourage more activity. Helmets are not one. Countries like Holland have massively more people using bikes, virtually none wearing helmets, but a lot fewer head injuries. The difference is culture and infrastructure, not pointless laws.

This ^ The most sensible MN post I’ve read today.

If all road users employed caution & courtesy; read and followed the rules of the road it would make life a lot more predictable and safer for everyone. I don't see a law mandating helmets would be at all useful.
(I drive and cycle in Cambridge and it's often mayhem, but generally fine, apart from random moves :/)

@Macncheeseballs

Plenty of cyclists are killed by left turning vehicles, not because they are 'dangerously undertaking' the vehicle but because the vehicle has come up behind them whilst st traffic lights. In slow moving traffic, motorists should ideally leave enough space on the left for cyclists to get through to the front where it is safer. Make space for cyclists and stop victim blaming

It's safer to stay behind 3,500kg of vehicle than go along the nearside and hope that they looked over when you aren't in a blind spot caused by the sheer fact of the vehicle being considerably larger than you are. Moreover, the nearside contains all the shit they build on pavements, lampposts, advertising pillars, crash barriers, bollards, signposts and all those other bits of street furniture you really don't want to be meeting at a rate of anything up to 10m/s/s when your only protection is a set of leathers and a helmet, or in the case of most cyclists, a pair of leggings, a long sleeved technical top and the arrogance to think that the laws of physics and human biology matter less than the Highway Code.

I like bikes. I liked Mountain Bikes best. I like bikes with the power to get the hell out of trouble more. But sometimes victims get blamed because it is actually their fault - and deliberately putting themselves in the riskiest position on the road because they feel they have a godgiven right to do so is absolutely fucking ridiculous - it's as daft as deciding to step out in front of a car travelling at 40 in the pissing rain at 3am from between two parked vehicles whilst dressed all in black because 'It's their fault if I end up smeared over the next quarter mile of tarmac'. Like that matters in the Morgue.

As it is, I don't drive. The reason being is that walking out of hospital with a broken neck (2nd cervical vertebrae, to be precise) focuses the mind somewhat into not pushing your luck any further. Especially when you find out the aftermath of 'getting away with it' (a car slamming on the anchors whilst pulling to the side to avoid a car coming in the opposite direction on the wrong side of the road) can't stand on one foot without falling over for the following 14 years and the percussion side of your left palm is still numb 25 years later.

Let's unpick just a couple of things here.

1. Mac has specifically referenced the very common situation where the vehicle has come up to the cyclist, then turned over them. This happens frequently. And has nothing to do with the cyclist putting themselves at risk and everything to do with driver behaviour.

1. Why do cyclists stay in the gutter/nearside? Because drivers tell them to. How? By quite literally threatening to kill them if the cyclist dates to take up any more road space.

The answer to all of this is to stop creating a us v them narrative and to actively promote a cohesive, accepting, open to all transport policy.

I don't get this mindset some mumsnetters have that 'cyclists are never wrong' and 'it's always the cars fault'.

If I step out on a busy road with cars driving, let's say 40mph, then that's my fault for being careless.

As adults, we're responsible for our own actions. If you're cycling carelessely then you're causing the danger yourself.
Cyclists can actually be fined for cycling carelessely as it is dangerous so, yes, cyclists can be at fault.

And for those that say they 'risk assess' whether they need a helmet, surely that"s the same as a driver risk assessing their need for a seat belt -

"Oh it's a nice sunny day today, not rush hour, and only driving 10 minutes to the store and i'll probably only be driving around 25mph on the roads anyway. I won't need my seatbelt"

As a driver it is your responsibility to be alert and careful. Be aware of hazards and take appropriate action.

A kid could zoom out at any point. A cyclist could hit a pothole and fall off. A pedestrian could trip and fall into the road. A car in front of you could brake suddenly.

I think you should like an unconfident driver. Cyclists make you nervous and so your response is as seen on this thread.

And the same argument can be applied to seatbelts in the sense that 'seat belts' are only a small part of the picture when it comes to safe driving.

@NiceGerbil ayy cyclists don't make me nervous at all? I am a very confident driver. But all road users need to know the rules of the road. And cycling erratically on the road will make any driver wonder what the heck the cyclists are doing.

The same way some cyclists don't respect pedestrians and ride on pavements and ring their bell whilst zooming pass them.

Everyone needs to know how to ride/drive safely.
Adults are responsible for their actions and people should know how to safely cycle on the road before putting themselves in danger

The difference is, these cylclists were causing the hazard themselves.
This wasn't the case of
"Cyclist ahead, i'll wait for some space to safely overtake"

Or

"Oh children playing near a road, i'll drive slower"

Or

"A car is signalling to park, i'll slow down to give them time to parallel park"

This is a case of ADULT cyclists cycling idiotically on the road and causing danger to themselves, including running red lights and not concentrating on the road. I understand cars do this too, and those in cars who do it are idiots aswell.