Cyclists without helmets

[Freedi8]

Driving around my local town today which was heaving and was quite lovely to see everybody having a good time.

Anyway, as we were driving, there were 3 cyclists who didn't appear to be experienced cyclists - 2 men and a woman.

They were riding in the middle of the road, they had no helmets on, they were trying to over take cars when cars were turning (a few near misses from different cars), they were weaving in and out of cars, and they were not concentrating on the road but pointing at buildings as they cycled in the middle of the road.

The thing is, we would sigh a sigh of relief whenever we got past them, just for them to catch up at traffic lights.

The worst 2 incidents were:
The man and woman got through an amber traffic light turning right and it turned red before their friend got through. Their friend decided to go through the red light and almost got hit by an oncoming car.

Second was, in a queue of traffic lights ready to turn left, when the cyclists come through on the left side of the cars and as i'm about to turn left they coming straight past me on the left side wanting to turn right.

My patience was wearing a thin and I couldn't believe they weren't wearing helmets when they were riding their bikes with such carelessness.

@Macncheeseballs

2thumbs - unless you're driving a lorry I'm not sure why you wouldn't see a cyclist on your left

I agree that the motorist should see the cyclist in this situation (lorries excluded as you say), but as the cyclist you have absolutely no way of knowing if they did since you can’t make eye contact. It’s a risky situation, regardless of who’s at fault.

Op if you were repeatedly overtaking another road user and then stopping at the next lights that sounds like poor driving. If you see a red light up ahead it would be better to wait behind the slower road user. So many drivers have this compulsion to immediately over take cyclists, even if they have to stop or turn off almost straight away, or into a blind bend or incoming traffic. I've even been overtaken while stopped at a zebra crossing in a 20 zone - the overtaking car almost hit the person crossing. I wish all drivers would engage their brains and look at the road ahead before immediately trying to pass.

I had a bike accident many years ago and got concussion because I went head first into the ground. Thankfully I was wearing a helmet or it could have been worse. People on bikes who don’t wear helmets are choosing to risk their health/life for no good reason. It should be a law that you can’t ride a bike without one - similar to how you can’t ride in a car without wearing a seatbelt. There’s no guarantee you won’t get hurt in a crash but it reduces your chances of a serious injury.

@SnackSizeRaisin

But the risk isn’t solely introduced by the motorists. If a cyclist decides to pass a motor vehicle on the left hand side at traffic lights where the vehicle is (presumably) indicating a left turn,

Well in your example the risk is solely due to the presence of a motorised vehicle. If the motorised vehicle was replaced by a pedestrian, wheelchair user, person on a bike, or nothing at all, there would be far less risk to the cyclist. It's the 2 tonnes of metal box that causes the risk, not the fact that someone travels safely and considerately. The best driver in the world is inherently a lot more dangerous to others than the worst cyclist. Hence why thousands of people die each year in the UK as a result of motor vehicle collisions and only about 3 from collisions involving bikes

Of course the danger is the motor vehicle, but the risk is the presence of the cyclist in relation to the vehicle. Just because the cyclist is almost certainly going to come off worse, they aren’t relinquished of all responsibility for their actions and there own personal safety. Don’t get me wrong, there are countless reckless drivers out there, but some cyclists do put themselves in dangerous (and avoidable) situations.

So have you never crossed a road as a pedestrian whilst the traffic light was red? Because if you have (and most people in the UK seem to do this all the time), you're just as bad

There's a huge difference between a pedestrian crossing the road when the man is red (advisory, no jaywalking laws in the UK, thankfully, because people are intelligent enough to know when it's safe to cross, generally) and a cyclist going through a red traffic light (which is illegal). So no, they are not 'just as bad'.

You're getting some rather obtuse responses here, OP, but I agree with you.

I'm a (helmet-wearing) cyclist and a motorist, so I can see both sides of the arguement. Motorists have a responsibility to look out for other road users, including cyclists. That includes checking for cyclists on their left before turning left; doing the "Dutch Reach" before opening a car door from the inside; and generally being alert and responsive when driving.

But cyclists must bear some responsibility for their own safety too, in my view. That includes not riding around at night, in dark clothes and with no bicycle lights (which makes them almost impossible to see from inside a car); following the same rules as everybody else with regards to traffic lights; and (my personal favourite) not riding at full pelt around a bend in the wrong direction down a one-way street.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that actually pedestrians are at greater risk of head injury than cyclists but no-one suggests that they should wear helmets .....

I don’t cycle but I do ride horses (and drive a car) and am aware of how vulnerable I am on the road whilst mounted.

I’m baffled by cyclists and riders who refuse to wear hi-viz and safety gear on the road, and yet think themselves invulnerable. Why wouldn’t you make yourself as visible and protected as possible? And why would you take the risk of overtaking on the left hand side of a car? It boggles my mind

www.eta.co.uk/2017/10/20/the-british-curse-of-high-vis/

completely benign activity.
This is an absolutely bizarre take on cycling.
I have biked since I was a dc and it is absolutely possible to have a range of accidents that have nothing to do with cars.

Some cyclists are sensible and others are total idiots.
The same is also true of drivers but I can't see why that is an argument for cyclists not to be sensible.
Wearing a helmet is non negotiable for my dc whether skiing, cycling or horse riding.

[quote Freedi8]@gegs73 totally agree! And most 'experienced' cyclists do wear helmets[/quote]
No they don't.

1. Research has shown that with a helmet, cars drive closer, are less careful
2. When I last looked into it, there were big ??? around whether in an incident they made things better or worse

If they looked iffy then you keep your distance. Same as you would with a car being driven unpredictably.

Helmets and cycle licences should be mandatory. Way too many deaths caused by helmetless idiots on bikes.

Really? How many deaths do bikes cause every year?

'There were 24,470 killed or seriously injured casualties (KSIs) in reported road traffic accidents reported to the police, for the year ending June 2020'.

How many people get killed by cyclists?

In the end in the cyclist is the vulnerable one.

These ones were all over the place. Helmets etc wouldn't have changed that.

I never understand the hatred for cyclists. Tbh. I think maybe it's because they make a lot of drivers worry and so it would be more comfy if they weren't there- because they are vulnerable.

OP you'd hate it where I work! Everyone mixes in together and nips in and out. Cabs buses pedestrians lorries motorbikes scooters you name it!

Ah well, whilst the cyclists without helmets maintain their position of moral authority, at least that means a consistent supply of organs for transplantation.

As an ex biker of the powered variety, all I can say is that on every occasion I've had to get off at 30 or been rear ended whilst standing at a junction, I've always had to replace my lid, as my head has hit the tarmac every single time. And I was never that convinced of my right to be on the road providing enough protection that creeping up the nearside of a large vehicle would be worth a possible one vehicle advance upon my road position.

Nearly saw a cyclist get tangled up it the wheels of my bus home in Friday. I was minding my own business as it entered a three way staggered junction, only to hear a slapping sound at the window, which was a cyclist trying to force their way through a gap of about 12 inches between bus and corner curbstones. As if 10 Stone of bloke could bully several tonnes of bus that was already on the move. Luckily for the cyclist, they bounced off the side of the bus onto the pavement because they'd been cycling so hard to catch up and undertake. He hit his head, too.

@NiceGerbil

'There were 24,470 killed or seriously injured casualties (KSIs) in reported road traffic accidents reported to the police, for the year ending June 2020'.

How many people get killed by cyclists?

It's cyclists getting themselves killed more often than killing others (although it does happen)

@Oenanthe

Cycling is a safe, enjoyable, healthy and completely benign activity.

It's cars that make the danger. No motorist has the right to pontificate when it's entirely their choices that introduce the risk.

Actually, I think they have every right to, as careless cycling in the manner described in the OP does not become the responsibility of someone driving a car. Nor is riding through a red light a "safe" activity.

helmetless idiots on bikes.

Now that's an Image I can't get out of my head!

I was driving yesterday afternoon & got stuck behind a moped. It only went on for about 2 miles but was very weird.

Firstly it was unable to go above 30mph in a 40 then 50mph zone & slowed down to 20mph when it went up a hill.

It was weaving all across the road & the rider kept on stretching their arms out so it looked like they were turning but didn't.
There were no indicators - looked like an off-road bike. Certainly whenever they cornered, they were putting a foot down.

I was keeping WELL back - almost expecting them to come off their bike...
It was single lane traffic & there were plenty of cars coming in the opposite direction so there was no way I could try to overtake even if it felt safe enough.

There was a driver right up my arse flashing me - I shrugged at him a few times in my mirror.

Finally at a roundabout, I went to the right & the bike carried on - a bit of karma for the aggressive arse behind me.

I was cursing I didn't have a voice-activated set up to use my phone else I would've called the police.

I am purely a driver as I’m too scared to cycle on the roads. I never understand the blanket hatred of cyclists. I do think there should be

• more education for all road users on navigating car/bike relationships ion the road so everyone knows how to behave to keep each other safe.
• compulsory helmets

There are, however, two bits of poor cyclist behaviour that wind me up:
1 - in town, repeatedly going in and off pavement/road. It’s so hard to keep track of them to keep them safe. Road users need to behave predictably.
2 - my pet hate and one you see surprisingly often - cycling in the dark with no lights, dark clothes. I’ll never understand why, when you’re so vulnerable, you wouldn’t take some basic steps to keep yourself safe and give drivers a fighting chance of seeing you!

Oh OP, I can’t believe you even slightly criticised a cyclist on MN - have you lost your mind?

The main rule to remember on this forum is that cyclists can do no wrong!!!

You could have a cyclist who was blindfolded, with a kid sitting on their shoulders, doing wheelies with no hands down the middle of a busy street, and still the car drivers are the problem.

So yes, this is an argument you can not and will not win on MN. Many have tried and failed.

As an aside, my colleague’s 16 year old son came off his bike (alone on a road) whilst not wearing a helmet and sustained a life changing head injury. He was in ITU for two months and then a rehabilitation hospital for almost 9 months and he will still never be able to walk and talk properly again.

My friend’s husband also came off his bike whilst not wearing a helmet and he died from his head injury, leaving behind her and their two young children (3 & 5 years old).

As many have said - cyclists who don’t wear helmets are idiots. If motorists really are so bad, why are cyclists happy to risk their lives around them?

Do you read a different MN from me because from where I sit cyclists are hated on Mumsnet...there’s frequently threads slagging them off. They’re up there with doctors receptionists. 🤷‍♀️

I've never had a problem with proper lycra clad cyclist who usually seem to know what they're doing but have had issues with people like this who cycle dangerously.

No wearing helmets, weaving in and out in the middle of the road, going through red lights- they don’t sound like experienced cyclists, just reckless ones.