Coca Cola

[pam290358]

Has anyone else found the ‘try to be less white’ advice given to Coca Cola employees offensive ? The training video urges them to be less oppressive and less ignorant - thus aligning those traits with being white. I find it offensive to the point of reverse racism. Imagine if the training video had advised ‘be less black’. There would, rightly, have been an outcry. So why is this OK ? AIBU to boycott their products ?

YANBU to feel that way, and I agree with you, but this thread will not end well.

Telling people to be less white only has one outcome. It winds people up and makes segregation more apparent. It has the opposite effect of the intention. I think it's a ridiculous way to ensure equality.

I actually don't see a problem with being blunt and antagonistic sometimes. Some people just need things spelled out for them (how to behave and be a normal human) and it helps to create debate (like this thread). There will always be people that are offended with the slightest criticism of white people and assume that if they say white privilege exists that it means they're racist from benefitting from it. Most white privilege is subconscious or passive (there is of course plenty that isn't) and I think they're trying to highlight this passivity and trying to be proactive in making it a more safe and positive place for everyone.

Someone will always be offended but I don't think there's any need to be subtle. Clearly being gentle with white people (I am white) hasn't worked, there's still lots of racism and racists in our society who need to be challenged and I think that's what they were going for. It's ok that sometimes you're offended, maybe you can unpick why it offends you so much and it'll help you and others in the future.

I am inclined to agree with the OP, tbh

I have no issue with the message but the actual phrasing is awful.

YABU. MrsTerryPratchett has argued the point really well and respectfully. I can't understand why you think you should ask to have the thread taken down.

Then I’ll leave it up and welcome the debate.

Did you take the subconscious bias tests? They're interesting. I learned stuff about myself, weird stuff

If you're offended or take it to heart, you're probably part of the problem. If you're genuinely not racist and want racism to be eradicated, you'll know it's not aimed towards you, but to racist white people.

@Suspiria777. So you’re saying’ this makes me want to be more racist than i currently am

Of course that’s not what I’m saying, so please don’t twist my words into something they’re not. I’m simply trying to say that the way in which Coca Cola have phrased things gets people’s backs up and yes, I suppose ‘white fragility’ is at play here. When I say it perpetuates racism, I don’t mean it makes people want to be more racist, but I think it will be enough to make a lot of people people disengage with the debate.

The online seminar was hosted by Linkedin learning and as soon as the content was leaked to the press, they took it down, stating that it was ‘not a course by Dr. DiAngelo (the author of White Fragility) but a series of interview clips that had been edited together by Coca Cola without her knowledge and presented as an educational resource’.

Interestingly the article I was reading - which was essentially about the storm of protest this created in the US - used the terms reverse racism and reverse discrimination - terms given a definition in the California Law Review, as “when individual blacks and members of other minority groups began to be given benefits at the expense of whites who, apart from race, would have had a superior claim to enjoy them.”

The comments and the votes don't tally, which is interesting.

@MasterBeth

Being white does not make you a terrible person.

What being white means is that you don’t need to consider racial identity, racism or your own race at all for the vast majority of the time. That is your white privilege - a privilege denied to people of colour.

When you are asked to “be less white”, you are being asked to consider race and racism more by putting yourself in the shoes of others.

So why don’t they say that then, Instead of “try being less white”? And so what do we call it when white people are being discriminated against? Are we not a race? And before any one says it yes, there have been companies who have discriminated against white people.

@WhatMattersMost

The comments and the votes don't tally, which is interesting.

I haven't voted because it isn't as clear cut as YABU/YANBU.

• idea of training is good
• choice of phrase (be less white) is poor
• boycotting Coca Cola because their training is poorly worded - no - it may be poorly worded but this is not a protest-worthy issue.

@ConstanceGracy. I got myself into trouble right at the start of this thread because of the wording I chose - all down to interpretation, or misinterpretation. Discrimination against white people is not the same as systemic racism and apparently there is no such thing as reverse racism, so I don’t know what you would call racism directed at a white person - which by the way, I’ve never experienced, but I am disabled and use a wheelchair. I have many experiences of discrimination because of the chair, ranging from being denied job interviews, being passed over for promotion, right down to being denied entry to a cinema because I’m a ‘fire risk”. A common perception seems to be that if there’s something wrong with your legs, it follows your brain must be affected too. This attitude hasn’t got much better over the years. Someone commented upthread that I had a problem with realising there are different forms of racism - whilst disability is not a race, it certainly attracts its’ fair share of discriminatory attitudes.

Try being less white” here doesn’t mean what you think it means. It means “try putting yourself in a less privileged position

A less privileged position? What does that even mean? Growing up I don’t think there was anyone less privileged than our family.
All the privileges/help I have come across were for other immigrants with a different colour skin tone. Apparently because I was white I was privileged.

What being white means is that you don’t need to consider racial identity, racism or your own race at all for the vast majority of the time. That is your white privilege - a privilege denied to people of colour

What happens if you do? I think a lot about the colour of my skin and where I fit in.

@User629202

🎵 reverse racism doesn’t exist 🎵

I have a relative who was beaten up for being white in a predominantly * area (I’m not going to say what as I don’t think it’s relevant). As they beat him they shouted abuse that related to him being white.

Isn’t this racism? Genuine question!
Same as when white girls are preyed upon sexually, is that not racism?

@MrsTerryPratchett I’d be really curious to take that test!

Yanbu. There are lots of ways to fight actual racism and this isn't it. This is just antagonistic bollocks that will achieve precisely fuck all.

@MrsTerryPratchett sorry just found your link. Fascinating

It's over simplistic 'catchy' wording that's all.

I think most people know exactly what they are getting at but it opens the floodgates to deliver misinterpretation.

'Be less white?' I'd love to be. I spent many hols abroad struggling with the heat so that I'd come back less white. But that of course isn't what they mean.

They should possibly have said 'Be aware of your white privilege' and then the list. But not so catchy.

The sentiment is spot on. I doubt whether many of us are oppressive but ignorant much more likely.

Until the past year or so I've never considered my colour, I've never had to. I've just carried on with life. I've never noticed that my workmates are predominantly white with the exception of south Asian men in IT.

It's a good thing that Coke want to do this, especially as they are a Southern US company. Just phrase it better so that people aren't handed the opportunity to be awkward.

Deliberate not deliver

It’s POMO posturing, from the sound of it. One thing pointing out that racism exists in many forms and that it might be good to listen and understand more. Quite another to spout this “All white people should feel guilty” along with the “check your privilege” psychobabble.

Those telling us to check our privilege are often arrogant and unpleasant people who think they are better than others because they perform humility, rather than actually carrying out the harder work of practicing it.

If you want to avoid drinking Coke, it will do no harm. But I bet thousands of other big companies are making similar performative gestures, while remaining money driven, paying appalling wages and operating in ways that have a negative impact on third-world producers.

If you want to avoid drinking Coke, it will do no harm. But I bet thousands of other big companies are making similar performative gestures, while remaining money driven, paying appalling wages and operating in ways that have a negative impact on third-world producers

Absolutely this. Coke and other big names brands should be addressing their own issues first to try and ensure a fairer world for all.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Did you take the subconscious bias tests? They're interesting. I learned stuff about myself, weird stuff

I did, but I seem to recall wondering whether there might have been subconscious bias in the way the tests were designed.

In the ones I took, there were two versions of a test, usually with one representing the non-oppressed group first and the oppressed afterwards (think it was that way round). I got the feeling that I would have performed worse the second time round whichever group they put there, because I had got used to clicking on things the other way round for the first test. So as well as any subconscious bias that might exist, I was also fighting against the pattern of processing I had picked up in the first version, if you see what I mean.

Perhaps they’ve improved it now, so it’s randomised as to which set you go through first. If they haven’t done that, they’ve set up a poorly designed test.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit since I commented up-thread.

In terms of using phrase 'be less white', I guess it depends on the audience, whether this is an effective way of putting the message across. I also think it's fair enough to 'tone police' large corporations like Coca Cola, they, and we as white people should be working hard to get anti-racism messages across in an effective way. I absolutely don't think it's up to individual Black people to do this.

As for reverse racism, the video that MrsTerryPratchett shared up thread was a great (and funny) explanation of why reverse racism doesn't exist. I think we have to face up to the historical facts (which we weren't taught at school) and stop trying to distract from them. Race may have come into play, in some of examples that people have mentioned, but they aren't caused by a history of systemic racism.

It's really, really uncomfortable to confront internalised racism, and how you as a white person have benefitted from racism. It's no wonder we naturally look for get out clauses, like being annoyed about how someone has expressed something, therefore not having to look at what they're actually saying. Personally it gets my hackles up when I hear 'educate yourself'. I don't think my own discomfort about this justifies not engaging with what people are saying.

@AnyOldPrion I just thought the same but the outcome I had was the opposite interestingly...