To think it’s hard for women to organise stuff

[Malteser71]

Background to my musings - I’m a pretty organised person, take the initiative, imagine stuff we could do with friends etc.

Husband has a two main groups of male friends who go away together - one weekend abroad per year, trips to sporting events etc. He’s never the one to organise them, so in that respect he gets an easy life, pays what he owes and turns up.

On the other hand, I have several smaller groups of female friends and it seems virtually impossible to do anything because of their various caring or other responsibilities.

As an example, one group of friends - the last two times I tried to organise something, the same one couldnt commit to a date because she was waiting to see (to be told) what her adult daughter was doing that weekend. She lives a couple of hours away, there was talk of her coming home, plans for us to go to Glasgow stalled after I’d done all the research. In the event, daughter didn’t come home and we didn’t go to Glasgow, then friend complained she had been bored all weekend.

I’ve no idea why she couldn’t have said she was unavailable that weekend and they could have arranged another. Adult daughter has no caring responsibilities.

Same friend, arranged to go out for afternoon tea (three of us) but again stalled because adult daughter then came to stay with her for three weeks during this period and she felt she should spend time with her instead. Then invited her to join us, then ditched us the day before and went out alone with daughter because she felt it wouldn’t be quality mum and daughter time for them together if friends present (so I had booked the table and they ended up using it!).

Just feeling guilty about not spending 1:1 time with her that afternoon, despite her staying in the house for three weeks, just the two of them.

Conversation with her recently - adult daughter thinking of moving closer to home. Wants to have kids. My friend can’t wait because she can then be on hand to help (understandable) but I just KNOW she will never, ever be available once there is a grandchild that ‘might’ need looking after so parents can go out.

Other friends - unable to commit to weekends away due to husbands unpredictable working patterns, despite their husbands being free to go away with friends because wives working patterns entirely predictable and therefore reliable childcare.

Another who can’t commit to anything due to adult daughter wanting to move house and needing help but not having a date in mind.

My two best school friends - both have taken jobs in schools in their late forties, now totally unavailable unless schools are closed, at which point they can’t do anything because they have children off school.

Other Friends invited to spend weekend at our holiday let, one can’t commit due to daughters gymnastics classes/competitions that clash with need to get other child to swimming lessons. Dad quite capable of taking one child, why doesn’t one child have a week off to enable mum to go away?

I’m honestly not somebody people are trying to avoid!

It’s always the same thing too, ‘you go ahead and book, I’ll join you if I can,’ when actually the dynamic of two friends going away rather than three is really different, so it’s not really the same.

And by the time they know whether they can come (based on others not needing them), the accommodation you were looking at has gone. This also happened when I invited friends to stay in our holiday let, by the time both committed, it had been let out that weekend.

I keep wondering, why is it that my husband and his male friends just think ‘shall we go away?’ And proceed to just, you know, book it.

I have two children, I have NO childcare apart from my husband. I have two jobs. I would love some quality time away, it just seems impossible to arrange this with female friends due to them being constantly needed, constantly at somebody else’s beck and call, never putting themselves first.

I think I ought to get some male mates? Or just give up completely? It’s a bit soul destroying and I really have got to the point of giving up.

We just go where we want when we want, covid allowing.
Sometimes together, sometimes on our own or with friends.
I'm a woman.

Seriously Op, you're widowed friend is 'very lonely' because she prioritises her daughter. If she is not cancelling plans to accommodate her daughter then she is talking about her. How bloody dull. I wouldn't entertain her.

I've knocked a few friends on the head because they used to spend every waking moment talking about their problems. Every meet up became a counselling session. When the (very occasional) shoe was on the other foot they weren't interested. It was very clear that both relationships were very one sided.

I don't have a lot of friends but the ones I do have are great. We are of a similar mindset and it is easy to arrange to meet up. If they have to cancel then I know it is a genuine reason/crisis. There is give and take.

You need to take a step back from flakey friend. Stop trying to meet up. Let her take the initiative. In the meantime, see if you can find a few more friends with a similar mindset to you. Life is too short.

I found the same, even before dcs, when we were in couples living together. My friends wouldn't go out for a drink as they wanted to keep the evening free for their partners. Then they wouldn't meet of a weekend as their partners were at home. The only way I got to see them was to go for coffee in town after work. We all work within driving distance of the city but we live 15 miles outside, in different directions.

I ended up joining a club with an organised meet up on eg 1st Fri of every month. It was the only way to get a social life.

When dcs came along, sometimes my dh would have an emergency, have to go to a funeral, if I arranged a dinner out after work with my mother and sister. These emergencies did not happen if I arranged with 6 people from work or with my friend (who works with dh).

I found it so hard to look forward to anything. I would cry if a meet up was cancelled because I only went out a few times a year.

I started telling dh, everyone that I had to go for cpd training to a city 100 miles away, in connection with my profession. There, I would stay in a hotel for a night during the week, walk round shops, eat a lovely lunch and dinner. I could privately look forward to it knowing that friends won't 'pull out', dh won't have an emergency. Once dh had an emergency and paid our minder extra. I did 2 trips a year before covid and they were a lifeline, particularly when dcs were small and I was either working or with them all the time. My mother is local but there is vert little help with dcs, and I don't expect help.

Occachocca, you’re right.

There was a time about two years ago when I had a job interview, got the job. I saw her a couple of weeks later, she did know about the interview but didn’t ask. It was very stark really that I’d become a sort of listening ear over the years, that had become my role,

She had no thoughts of reversing that role and listening to me, though she did seem shocked and apologised when she realised I’d started the new job and she had never asked the outcome of the interview!

OP, is there any chance you and 'lonely friend' could sign up to an activity together? An art class or something? That way you get out and meet people, regardless of whether she turns up and, if she does, she gains absorbing distraction and a chance to chat a bit to you.

I totally get you op and find the exact same. I work freelance but also have a holiday let. My dh works ft and we have three pretty youngish kids and absolutely no help from family so no babysitters ever so we are v busy too.
Me and my dh swap over quite a bit at the weekends so we can exercise , meet someone for coffee etc etc. When my kids weren't sleeping( for years) I found it hard to be sociable so I think when ppl have very small dcs it's understandable they might not want to do much. But so, so hear you , apart from two friends ,(similar circumstances to us) I find that so many mums find it almost impossible to arrange things like even a couple of hours at the weekend. BTW we spend loads of time as a family together so a few hours is absolutely fine. I go hiking or sea swimming sometimes and I've had friends saying they'd love to join but then never, ever do as they can't possibly go anywhere for a few hours at the weekends.
I wrote something similar on mn before and got loads of defensive replies.... I strongly believe it's because their dhs don't want to take over at the weekends and for all the ppl saying maybe they don't want to etc, why bother arranging stuff or bring it up all the time. Also one last thing, maybe it's also a lack of confidence , I think that can happen to women after years of looking after dcs , that it might be hard to chat etc. Worth a thought..

I think it is an issue of dhs not wanting to take over at the weekend. If they do help, they sulk for a week or two after to 'pay you back'. Also as a lot iof women work fulltime, the weekend is the only chance to get food shopping (no deliveries rural living) and clean the house.

I find it easier to book a half day off work and do afternoon tea while dcs at minder. Then I collect them at the usual time, do homework etc. Whereas I am less interested in going off with friends for a weekend afternoon. I then can't get on top of housework and I am starting the following week on the back foot. Or else I keep going non stop to get all done and feel I can't rest or exercise at the weekend.

Keep communication open with the people who can't meet. They may not like to say they have no help with dcs. Accept you will see them less often. However you should investigate a club or exercise class which meets X eve at Y time. It take the organising away from you, and being disappointed when things are cancelled. Also if I am constantly initiating meet ups, it liooks like I am 'mad for road'. Some of my friends would smirl when they were cancelling or postponing. Not to say your friends are like this, but it doesn't look good to be always the one initiating.

Reduce contact / don’t initiate plans with flaky friend.
And wouldn’t be the organiser for other friends either, if suggestions never or rarely agreed to or reciprocated.

Agree that the sex divide is a big factor. DH and I both work FT - him more hours than me. I would feel guilty about spending a whole weekend away: he would not.

Other things come into play too, eg geography, money, personal circumstances and preferences (eg some people would like / be able to afford a whole weekend away with friends, doing X, others wouldn’t).

I’ve experienced the same OP. I realised that many of my friends just wish they were the sort who went away and had a good social life. They have no intention of actually doing so or even being honest with themselves that they don’t want to go away without their DH or DC. Even more frustrating when they cry about missing out but then flake on every plan. It seems worse at the moment because everything involves making a booking.
Can you just let your friend know that you won’t be organising anything anymore, possibly say you’ll leave the ball in her court? I wouldn’t pull back without mentioning your reason, but you can do so without causing an argument.

Yes I think that’s what I’ll do. She’s mentioned two of us going round to hers for dinner in the garden. No plans made. In the past I woukd have picked this plan up and run with it, I’ll just leave it now.

They're all not bothered. If they were, they'd be more available. I'd stop being the organiser & see what happens : which will be they'll all let things drift off to nothing .

Place in Cornwall you say?
Are dogs welcome? I’m in Scotland, I’ll drive!
The friend with adult daughter sounds hopeless, her daughter is living in her home(for 3 weeks) but feels she can’t come out to tea with her friends??
I can see why daughter lives in London.

She’s done this in restaurants when it’s just been the two of us, she’s on the phone for ages so you feel like a spare part

That’s just rude.
Have you said anything when she does that?

She’s done this in restaurants when it’s just been the two of us, she’s on the phone for ages so you feel like a spare part

Next time you pay your half of the bill, get up and leave.

My stepmum has done that before, to my dad! If they’re having coffee or dinner and he spends too long on his phone. She also expects that when we go over phone use is kept to a minimum and not at the table. I really respect that tbh.

You have every right to get up and leave next time. Don’t allow people to treat you like shit.

It’s been known for my friends and I to all book a days holiday just to spend time together, we all work different days and shifts so sometimes it’s the only way but we do it because we prioritise our friendships.

@DrManhattan

Maybe they don't want to go . . .

If I’m really honest it’s this. If women want to do something, they make time and do it. Generally speaking.

It struck me that you're behaving towards flaky / lonely friend a bit like the way she's behaving towards her dd. Waiting, hoping, making yourself available. I think, like her, you need to start setting your own terms of engagement and sticking to them.