To think it’s hard for women to organise stuff

[Malteser71]

Background to my musings - I’m a pretty organised person, take the initiative, imagine stuff we could do with friends etc.

Husband has a two main groups of male friends who go away together - one weekend abroad per year, trips to sporting events etc. He’s never the one to organise them, so in that respect he gets an easy life, pays what he owes and turns up.

On the other hand, I have several smaller groups of female friends and it seems virtually impossible to do anything because of their various caring or other responsibilities.

As an example, one group of friends - the last two times I tried to organise something, the same one couldnt commit to a date because she was waiting to see (to be told) what her adult daughter was doing that weekend. She lives a couple of hours away, there was talk of her coming home, plans for us to go to Glasgow stalled after I’d done all the research. In the event, daughter didn’t come home and we didn’t go to Glasgow, then friend complained she had been bored all weekend.

I’ve no idea why she couldn’t have said she was unavailable that weekend and they could have arranged another. Adult daughter has no caring responsibilities.

Same friend, arranged to go out for afternoon tea (three of us) but again stalled because adult daughter then came to stay with her for three weeks during this period and she felt she should spend time with her instead. Then invited her to join us, then ditched us the day before and went out alone with daughter because she felt it wouldn’t be quality mum and daughter time for them together if friends present (so I had booked the table and they ended up using it!).

Just feeling guilty about not spending 1:1 time with her that afternoon, despite her staying in the house for three weeks, just the two of them.

Conversation with her recently - adult daughter thinking of moving closer to home. Wants to have kids. My friend can’t wait because she can then be on hand to help (understandable) but I just KNOW she will never, ever be available once there is a grandchild that ‘might’ need looking after so parents can go out.

Other friends - unable to commit to weekends away due to husbands unpredictable working patterns, despite their husbands being free to go away with friends because wives working patterns entirely predictable and therefore reliable childcare.

Another who can’t commit to anything due to adult daughter wanting to move house and needing help but not having a date in mind.

My two best school friends - both have taken jobs in schools in their late forties, now totally unavailable unless schools are closed, at which point they can’t do anything because they have children off school.

Other Friends invited to spend weekend at our holiday let, one can’t commit due to daughters gymnastics classes/competitions that clash with need to get other child to swimming lessons. Dad quite capable of taking one child, why doesn’t one child have a week off to enable mum to go away?

I’m honestly not somebody people are trying to avoid!

It’s always the same thing too, ‘you go ahead and book, I’ll join you if I can,’ when actually the dynamic of two friends going away rather than three is really different, so it’s not really the same.

And by the time they know whether they can come (based on others not needing them), the accommodation you were looking at has gone. This also happened when I invited friends to stay in our holiday let, by the time both committed, it had been let out that weekend.

I keep wondering, why is it that my husband and his male friends just think ‘shall we go away?’ And proceed to just, you know, book it.

I have two children, I have NO childcare apart from my husband. I have two jobs. I would love some quality time away, it just seems impossible to arrange this with female friends due to them being constantly needed, constantly at somebody else’s beck and call, never putting themselves first.

I think I ought to get some male mates? Or just give up completely? It’s a bit soul destroying and I really have got to the point of giving up.

I think it's your friends ... I regularly go away with my friends and arrange to do things, some people are just martyrs though and won't prioritise their own social life.

I agree with some of your points about shift work etc but your friend with the adult daughter is just a flake.
I try to tailor what I organise to each friend. Some friends I meet for lunch during the week as we both work in the city. Other friends I meet for job walks. Other friends I meet for dinner.

Haven’t done a weekend away for 15 years or so but that’s as much me as them

It sounds like you have some flaky friends but there is definitely a wider point about women feeling the need to cancel their own plans to be there in case they’re needed.

I would agree that my experience matches yours. Womens' lives appear to revolve around their caring responsibilities and putting everything ahead of themselves - rightly sometimes but wrongly more often.

I'm not an organiser for this very reason. I could never cope with the prevarications and subsequent cancellations. This was most evident with the "school" mums group. There was always a family non emergency event (that only mum could take care of, never dad), other family related priority that came up, appointment conflict, other schedule change.

Absolutely these women may not want to attend something with their supposed friends. We don't always know what's going on in the background (money worries even just attending for a coffee/cake, dealing with a petulant spouse who doesn't think his OH is entitled to any social life etc). Inevitably the dynamic shifts and the foursome you expected can become a stilted one on one that can be uncomfortable.

Men on the other hand announce the date of their event and WE make it happen. WE facilitate. I guarantee it won't change for future generations.

I do get what you mean - I was deleting ancient emails recently and came across a thread where four of us were just trying to meet for coffee and it got so ridiculous one of the group flounced off... But I think generally I've gravitated towards the friends who have the same attitude towards spending time together as I do.

The ones that don't, I'm much more likely to say 'sounds brilliant, crack on and let me know when suits you' knowing that the date they'll find will be in approximately 18 years when all the children have left home except just pencil it because DH might need them to pack a lunch for an event he's already got on the calendar. But most of the time I go away with other women who like going away and we just make it happen.

You are U about the ones who work in schools though, it's not their fault they need to be in school when it's open - it's kinda frowned upon to take time off in term-time.

Re the adult daughter one. The daughter is quite controlling generally in life. Her mum describes it as like walking on eggshells.

There was a degree of relief when she stayed in the city where she did her degree, as mum wasnt walking on eggshells all the time.

I have spotted a bit of a pattern that, when I ask my friend if she’d like to do something, she says she will have to check with her daughter. To see if she’s likely to come home that weekend (she’s 28 so ‘home’ to her is London).

I don’t really know why she has to check.

Anyway, if it’s fine with the daughter, she commits. However, the daughter sometimes then says she has a vague plan to come home ‘around that time’ which scuppers things and leads us to block out perhaps a whole month with my friend unavailable. Then something comes up and the daughter doesn’t come.

The one about afternoon tea that was cancelled was very odd really. It was all steam ahead, the daughter was ‘home’ and had been home for weeks, but the night before, my friend rang and said she felt bad not inviting the daughter out with us. There were three of us, this made four. It changed the dynamic a bit, but we said yes, that was fine.

Then on the day she cancelled and went with her daughter instead, again because she felt guilty. It was just before Xmas, a specific hotel where i had booked weeks in advance to make sure we’d get in. So I had basically done the legwork but they used the table.

I haven’t asked since. My friend is widowed and very lonely. She talks about this all the time. So I understand why she’s close to her daughter, but I also think she ought to be careful to maintain her own friendships.

I find this so frustrating! Takes months to even arrange a dinner with some people. I think for my friends, some just do t believe their partner is capable of being left with the children at home alone. I find that so odd. I think one of the most damaging things women do to themselves is to try and make themselves entirely indipensible. I’m sure it’s nice to feel so needed, but blow me if I am going to martyr myself that way!

I agree with you to some extent. When my DS was young I found it practically impossible to organize anything with other mothers - particularly the ones who were SAH! Usually they would agree to a date and then just not show up. The rest were martyrs/hostages to family or would drop out of longstanding arrangements if DH/DP snapped his fingers. And yes, I was single, worked long hours in self-employment and my family were on another continent.

I got used to doing things on my own.

It’s definitely a thing!

I think it’s just your flaky friends in this instance to be honest. The way I see it, if you are good friends with someone you can make time, you work 2 jobs and have children and are still making the effort to want to organise something with your friends, I think they just don’t like committing to something and then use shitty excuses.

I know women do tend to take on majority of childcare though and feel more guilt for leaving to do their own thing, it’s because people are too judgemental. I find women are very judgemental of other women going out and enjoying themselves without their children.

@Malteser71

Did you not read my post?

I have two jobs

No need to be so rude. If you write an 18 paragraph OP, people will skim. I bet you would too if someone wrote you an 18 paragraph response.

I agree it's a thing. We tend to put our own stuff further down the priority list. I think it depends on how hands on the partner is - I have some friends who just say "no worries, DH can do bedtime that night" but many more who don't.

Aside from the specific issues of "the one with the controlling adult daughter" there are two things at play here:

1. Wifework. The fact that it is a woman's default position to be carer and organiser so if she needs "time off" from that it has to be negotiated and agreed.

1. The guilt that women are made to feel if they have the temerity to want to do something for themselves, such as take a trip away with friends.

OP, maybe you should say you are going to X place on Y dates, does anyone want to come with. If they don't, just go on your own. I have had some brilliant breaks and holidays on my own.

YANBU OP. My husband works 6 days a week most weeks, 2 x DC normally compete in sporting events at least twice a month and then there’s the baby to look after in amongst all this. I can arrange a Saturday that looks completely free, DH will say he can keep it free and then sporting competitions crop up in locations that make it impossible for one person do be able to drop off/pick up in time. Add into that other friends who have caring duties for older relatives and it’s a logistical nightmare trying to all get together!

Well some of it is reasonable and some not. Friends who are teachers and have kids, of course their lives are crazy right now. Friends who won't commit on the off chance of a better offer off their adult child, I'd stop inviting

Tbf I would love a weekend in our place in Cornwall alone! 😂

When we bought it, I had several friend text me saying ‘WHEN are we going?!’

And then you try to arrange this. I’m paying, I’m driving.

And it’s Imodium right. Then they text saying ‘I cannot believe we still haven’t been to your place. When can we go.’

And that’s where I start to just give up.

Your friends are flakey saps and need to give themselves a shake. You need to find some better (i.e. more suitable) friends.

Join a sports club, choir, craft club or anything that has regular scheduled meetings and events. That's how men do it. Then it's all passively done for you and to you. You're issued dates, required to attend (even if not really, it looks that way), you turn up. Life has to arrange itself around your very important commitment.

Your DH's 'holiday club' is only slightly less formal. Set up your own once-a-month 'film club' (cinema, drinks and a chat). You could add an annual or biennial European film festival trip if you feel like it. Join a monthly book group, a walking group, do some fun volunteering. Arrange an annual 'women I've met who are interesting and available weekend break' tradition.

By going out and doing things you will find women who go out and do things.

Then call it a club, group, or annual tradition.

Then write it on the calendar, tell DH some months ahead and stick to it, as if it had never occurred to you not to. 'Don't forget I'm away that weekend'.

Generally, all women need a healthy streak of selfishness. It's as simple and as difficult as that.

Imodium????! No Imodium involved hopefully!

Your hostage to her daughter friend, you should probably speak to her and tell her it's obvious that she's in a controlling relationship and she should seek help. You cannot be that help, you're not trained. You can meet her but she needs to stick to plans. A bit of tough love needed there. Otherwise you'll drift apart anyway, so you've nothing to lose.

I can't believe you gave up you table to her and let down the third friend. You and friend three should have gone as a pair.

Generally, you are guilty of doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result.

You have a place in Cornwall? When are we going?!

Pack your bags woman. I’ll drive. Bring good wine.

I’ve always agreed with this when it comes to my husband and his friends compared to ours, always seems harder to get a date/place agreed to do something when there’s more than 3 of us, husbands friends tend to send a message out in the WhatsApp group “going to x on x weekend, let me know by Friday if you can come”, everyone answers, someone books a hotel & lets people know the cost, job done 😅. It seems less fuss for them is probably the way I’d put it.

Maybe it’s because they just accept when people can’t go whereas my friends try to arrange then rearrange a weekend for example that everyone can make it!

Right, Sunday to Wednesday ok for you? Will avoid the worst of the traffic. Wine is packed. I'll book a food delivery.

Make it Waitrose and you’re on.

My friends and I have just booked to go away for the weekend. We just text the dates we are available (has to be a weekend due to kids) and see where it matches, as two of us work some weekends.