To be shocked the librarian was so poorly read?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

In the library recently reserving some books for dd. Librarian had not heard of A Handmaid’s Tale and did not know that As you Like It was written by Shakespeare.

These are not exactly obscure books!

AIBU?

My eldest is 15 and hasn't studied Shakespeare at school. Would be surprised if he could list more than 3 or 4 Shakespeare works.

I really don't understand the mentality that of course people can't be expected to have heard of anything they weren't taught in school.

I was mostly home schooled/unschooled and had no education at all past the age of 12 (went to uni as a mature student). Yet I've always actively sought to educate myself and to inform myself about the world.

I read Macbeth by myself when I was probably 10 or 11. No one told me to or gave it to me, I just found in on my mother's bookshelves and thought it looked like a cool scary story about witches. Children should learn via being helped to pursue their natural intellectual curiosity, not through being spoonfed knowledge. Of course not everyone is interested in books, some kids are more drawn to science and nature, but IMO all children are born with an innate curiosity about the world and an innate desire to learn and grow.

"I don’t have to justify what I post to you. Your insecurity is showing."

Nope, not at all. I just found your post really, really funny.

"Although I’d like to know how many genuinely intelligent people lack a reasonable level of general knowledge, particularly related to the field they work in."

Somebody volunteering in a library is hardly in "the field".

I worked in a music shop when I was at university. I couldn't then and probably still couldn't now name every Beatles album, even though I'm sure some music snobs would be aghast at that.

Does that mean

a) I'm obviously lacking what is surely something EVERYBODY EVER should know?
b) I just don't like the Beatles very much.

?
Toughie.

@poppycat10

there is a real attitude in the UK that it's 'uncool', 'snobby', 'posh' to show that you're interested in learning and culture

I don't think there is. It's just ok not to be interested in things that certain people think you should be interested in like opera or theatre. People confuse being interested in something with intelligence.

I agree that there's certainly an inverted snobbery, in the staffroom many were sneerily horrified that I'd never heard of someone or other who was a popular artist, I should know things like this almost as a necessary part of my job! Had I sneered at their ignorance of, say Mikhail Baryshnikov I would have been called snobby! Having said that, I'm very useful on pub quiz teams!

I worked in a music shop when I was at university. I couldn't then and probably still couldn't now name every Beatles album, even though I'm sure some music snobs would be aghast at that.

Now we come to it, don’t we? The word ‘snob’ has been deployed. Are you sure that you are not insecure? It certainly sounds like it.

The OP did not expect the library assistant to name every Shakespeare play. She expected her to recognise the name of a well-known and regularly-performed Shakespeare play.

If somebody had come into your record shop and said, “I’d like a copy of Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band please”, and you said, “I’ve never heard of it”, would you think that the customer was a ‘snob’ for expressing surprise?

Look, I’m really sorry that I’ve denied you the chance to have a good old go at me, but this time it just hasn’t worked, has it? Better luck on the next thread!
There's no good old go. Talk about a chip there

You seem to think anyone in a classroom should know about almost anything that could be covered across a full range of related degrees (or more accurately have a mental list of things you think other people should know outside their specialism that isn't on the curriculum). I don't.

I expect people in the classroom to be specialists in their areas and have a well-developed knowledge of the curriculum.

UrAWizHarry
I agree with you. People regularly think that other people should know what they know and what they value, and seem reluctant to consider that there's lots of people with lots of knowledge about other topics.

Music, books and the arts are pet topics for this. I highly doubt that lots of life's knowledge snobs (who are apparently shocked that people might not know a particular book, or particular album) would have an equal knowledge on particular inventions, or scientific developments, or engineering breakthroughs, world religions, political reforms, or many other topics

Yeah, I'm massively insecure about what a complete anonymous stranger who cares enough about typos on an informal message board to actually insert a into a quote.

You've got me.

The point being, of course, that not every casual worker is going to have an encylopedic knowledge of what other people take for granted and that is ok. As You Like it is well-known to people who like Shakespeare but many people don't like Shakespeare. And that is ok.

And yes, I would think a person is a snob if they then went on to belittle casual workers as you and many on this thread have done.

@Nightbear

’A PE teacher I was chatting to the other day genuinely wasn’t sure who the current Prime Minister was’

That might be a defence mechanism. I try to forget too.

Watching something the other day about Prime Ministers in order of the length of their name since WW2 I got them all except Brown, my defence mechanism maybe.

I highly doubt that lots of life's knowledge snobs (who are apparently shocked that people might not know a particular book, or particular album) would have an equal knowledge on particular inventions, or scientific developments, or engineering breakthroughs, world religions, political reforms, or many other topics

You really are hilarious. You’re not going down without a fight, are you?

What evidence do you have to support this statement?

@Iamthewombat It’s okay to be wrong sometimes. Admitting it shows maturity and good grace. Try it, you might like it 👍🏻

Eh? How do you extrapolate that? If I wanted a book in a library or bookshop I would know title and the author.

Just the way you come across as that type of person. People do, then have a go when you can't answer it, or now come onto the internet to have a go at them.

I agree that there's certainly an inverted snobbery, in the staffroom many were sneerily horrified that I'd never heard of someone or other who was a popular artist, I should know things like this almost as a necessary part of my job! Had I sneered at their ignorance of, say Mikhail Baryshnikov I would have been called snobby! Having said that, I'm very useful on pub quiz teams!
You sound like my kind of person.
I'm terrible on film rounds for pub quizzes, but come in quite useful when it comes to classical music and film scores.

I think the snob angle comes down to whether someone accepts that people can, and do, have a range of knowledge across different areas (and that they accept their knowledge isn't better or more worthy than someone else's), or whether whether look down on others for not possessing what they consider to be the right type of knowledge.

I enjoy learning and reading widely, but cannot abide people who take the "oooh golly I'm so surprised that you didn't know/haven't heard of..." attitude. I find it snobby and typically comes from a place of trying to look down and others.

I'm not sure it makes her "poorly read".

I've only heard of The Handmaid's Tale because my sibling read it at school.

She might have heard of As You Like it but not realised it was by Shakespeare?

I've heard of AYLI, know that it's by Shakespeare but have no idea of the plot of any character names.

I suppose it depends what you mean by "well read".

The point being, of course, that not every casual worker is going to have an encylopedic knowledge of what other people take for granted and that is ok. As You Like it is well-known to people who like Shakespeare but many people don't like Shakespeare. And that is ok.

I don’t know how to convey this message any more clearly. The OP did not expect encyclopaedic knowledge from the library assistant. You don’t want to acknowledge this, of course, because it u dermines your ‘snob’argument.

And yes, I would think a person is a snob if they then went on to belittle casual workers as you and many on this thread have done.

Show us evidence that the OP, or anybody else, has belittled casual workers. NB expecting somebody to have a reasonable level of knowledge about the area they work in is not evidence of belittlement.

I think we are lucky these days if someone is manning the library and wouldn’t complain if they hadn’t heard of The Handmaidens Tale which I hated on the tv and although have been a fan of Margaret Atwood s for a long time decided not to read it. Regarding Shakespeare, As You Like It could sound like a chick lit novel if not really into the Bard.

If he/she was a proper qualified librarian then it would be a pretty big gap in their knowledge. It's not about being snobby, it's about knowing your field. Would you expect a mechanic to be unfamiliar with the workings of a particular make/model of car? And The Handmaid's Tale is not an obscure book. It was a Booker nominee and it's been serialised on TV.

However, as many people have pointed out, chances are the person serving was a volunteer or lowly paid library assistant. It's shocking that something as important as libraries are staffed by volunteers really...

@youshallnotpass9

Eh? How do you extrapolate that? If I wanted a book in a library or bookshop I would know title and the author.

Just the way you come across as that type of person. People do, then have a go when you can't answer it, or now come onto the internet to have a go at them.

There you go, OP. No evidence base, just ‘the way you come across as that type of person’. Case closed.

How old was she and was actually a librarian or a library assistant.
Nobody has heard of every book, she knows about it now and may even read it (I read it in 1990 and listened to it read by Margaret Atwood on R4 but I am 61).

You really are hilarious. You’re not going down without a fight, are you?
What evidence do you have to support this statement?
I wasn't aware there was a fight.

People with exceptional general knowledge across the vast range of areas are generally not so arrogant to look down on others for not possessing the same items of knowledge.

For a start, they're smart enough to know that it's not truly shocking for someone to have knowledge on one topic, but not another.

The "I can't believe someone didn't know about this book/play/music album" doesn't actually mean someone can't believe it. It means "I consider this to be a piece of knowledge others should have, and I'm going to take this opportunity to pat myself on the back and laugh at the person who knows less than me".

[quote KikiniBamalam]@Iamthewombat It’s okay to be wrong sometimes. Admitting it shows maturity and good grace. Try it, you might like it 👍🏻[/quote]
Great, are you going to admit that you don’t understand what ‘general knowledge’ means and that your dig upthread was misconceived? Try it, you might find it cathartic.

Personally, I'm appalled that someone who is waiting to hear about a voluntary role, is calling it a job. Surely all volunteers should know that legally a volunteer position can't be called a job.
Or am I being as ridiculous as the OP?

Seeing as everyone is so hung up on Shakespeare being known in the library where do you think his work is shelved? In the popular/general readers library in between Anya Seaton and Tom Sharpe? It's kept in the 820s the English Literature section so won't even pass through many librarians hands unless they are fulfilling reservations. They're far far more likely to be asked if the new Marian Keyes book is out than asked about a Shakespeare play. It's just not going to be needed for most of their job. And it's not a job requirement for either paid staff or volunteers to know the full works of Shakespeare.
(and for all I know there is a novel of some kind called As You Like It. The librarian could have been checking they were looking for the right item)

It's shocking that something as important as libraries are staffed by volunteers really...

It’s better than closing them.

@LolaSmiles

You really are hilarious. You’re not going down without a fight, are you? What evidence do you have to support this statement? I wasn't aware there was a fight.

People with exceptional general knowledge across the vast range of areas are generally not so arrogant to look down on others for not possessing the same items of knowledge.

For a start, they're smart enough to know that it's not truly shocking for someone to have knowledge on one topic, but not another.

The "I can't believe someone didn't know about this book/play/music album" doesn't actually mean someone can't believe it. It means "I consider this to be a piece of knowledge others should have, and I'm going to take this opportunity to pat myself on the back and laugh at the person who knows less than me".

So you have no evidence, then?

That will be why you are resorting to insults: ‘snob’, ‘arrogant’, and so on.

Incidentally, in response to your questions upthread, do you agree that it would be reasonable to expect an English teacher to have heard of phonetics, Anton Chekhov, old English, Middle English, rhetoric and Lewis Carroll? You’ve gone silent on that one.

@tigger1001 I'm not particularly interested in Shakespeare either and have only read/seen a few of the plays. But I'm still aware of the names of the major ones at least. I also have no interest in football but know the names of major footballers. Ditto famous composers, politicians, actors, artists etc. None of those are things I'm specifically "into", but if you consume any media and pay attention to the world then surely you'd have a knowledge base beyond your immediate interests.
I'd be embarrassed if I wasn't familiar with my own country's cultural heritage.