To be shocked the librarian was so poorly read?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

In the library recently reserving some books for dd. Librarian had not heard of A Handmaid’s Tale and did not know that As you Like It was written by Shakespeare.

These are not exactly obscure books!

AIBU?

I think you're confusing general knowledge with common knowledge.

@Summerfun54321

It’s not about being well read. Anyone who’s gone through state secondary education should have heard of that book and that play.

Well you'd better have a word with my state grammar school English teachers because until it was dramatised it hadn't penetrated my consciousness at all. I'd heard of Margaret Attwood, but wouldn't have been able to tell you what she'd written.

And we did Romeo & Juliet and The Taming of the Shrew as Shakespeare, not As You Like it. I've since seen Love's Labour's Lost at the theatre and reading Noel Streatfield was very good for getting an overview of a Midsummer Night's Dream!

My local village library is run by volunteers because the council closed it and the local community pulled together to keep it open. No paid staff at all just a rota of volunteers. Could this library be the same?

I hate Shakespeare and I do read a lot!!

Nope I wouldn't know most of his works past what was studied at school.

There used to be a children’s specialist librarian too. Maybe I’m stuck in the past!

I know this classic MN but at the rate libraries have been closed round here you’re lucky to have one at all. I can’t conceive of the luxury of specialist librarians.

@Iamthewombat

The Handmaid's Tale has only found fame through being dramatised.

Christ.

Absolutely not true that it's only found fame through being dramatised. Apart from anything else it's been on the 'A' level syllabus for years. I still don't think it's shocking for someone not to know of it, as I don't think we all know about famous things, but it has been a very well known book for a very long time.

Iamthewombat
I didn't claim you said that. I said it would be silly to say that. It would be silly to do to that, but that's exactly what several posters are doing throughout this thread.

I'm pointing out that people often think that the knowledge they have is general knowledge and assume others should have it. Usually this comes with a healthy dose of people thinking they're much smarter for knowing a particular fact, when in reality they happen to have a different set of knowledge and others will know about other topics.
The consequence of this sort of attitude leads to posts like the OP who apparently can't believe someone didn't know about As You Like It, or another poster who thinks it's awful that their children's English teacher didn't know Rebecca (a book that isn't on the curriculum, unless it's an option book for some A Level specs).

Unless someone's got a particular interest in a topic, or had to learn it for an exam, they're unlikely to retain random items of information, be it books or any other topic.

Apart from anything else it's been on the 'A' level syllabus for years.
I studied it at uni in the early 90s.

@GreyhoundG1rl

I think you're confusing general knowledge with common knowledge.

Exactly. We all have different interests and different things stay in our heads. You might read a review of a book in the paper, or a list of Booker or other prize nominees, but unless you are really interested, it goes in one ear and out the other.

I read for interest not to read what other people think I "should" be reading. And there are a lot of us around, otherwise the chick lit and thriller/spy book writers wouldn't sell any books. and they wouldn't be top on the library lending lists.

I worked on major sports events and had no clue about any of the sports, I just plan the events! She can provide the customer service needed without knowing every book there, even the popular ones, it's just a job

@HoldingTheDoor

Who hasn't even heard of A Handmaid's Tale?

I haven't. I have however heard of The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood.

I'd never heard of the book either, and only know of it from the recent tv adaptation. I didn't watch it, because judging by the trailers, it looked like a load of cobblers.

@IntermittentParps

Apart from anything else it's been on the 'A' level syllabus for years. I studied it at uni in the early 90s.

How is that relevant to anyone who didn't do English literature A level? Sometimes people used to talk about the books they were reading for their courses but not that often.

I'm pointing out that people often think that the knowledge they have is general knowledge and assume others should have it.
Sorry to be pedantic, but common knowledge, not general. The poster who claimed it as general knowledge was technically correct, yet they were laughed at.

@LolaSmiles

Iamthewombat I didn't claim you said that. I said it would be silly to say that. It would be silly to do to that, but that's exactly what several posters are doing throughout this thread.

I'm pointing out that people often think that the knowledge they have is general knowledge and assume others should have it. Usually this comes with a healthy dose of people thinking they're much smarter for knowing a particular fact, when in reality they happen to have a different set of knowledge and others will know about other topics.
The consequence of this sort of attitude leads to posts like the OP who apparently can't believe someone didn't know about As You Like It, or another poster who thinks it's awful that their children's English teacher didn't know Rebecca (a book that isn't on the curriculum, unless it's an option book for some A Level specs).

Unless someone's got a particular interest in a topic, or had to learn it for an exam, they're unlikely to retain random items of information, be it books or any other topic.

As above, I think you are confusing general knowledge with common knowledge.

As for an English specialist teacher not having heard of Rebecca, but that’s OK because it’s not on the curriculum...God help us. If Dickens wasn’t on the curriculum that year, would it be OK not to have heard of him? Chaucer? George Eliot?

Quick 'culture' test.
What is the name of the book series that inspired HBOs Game Of Thrones?
Name a George RR Martin novel not in said series?
Name a Margaret Atwood novel other than The Handmaid's Tale?
Name two JK Rowling books where the proceeds went to charity?
What's Frankenstein's monster called?
Which Marlowe play does Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice plagerise?
What's the second adventure of Lewis Carol's Alice called?

I was a librarian in a university for nearly ten years. I had a degree in English Lit followed by a post grad qualification in Library Information Management. However, I very rarely worked on the issue desk as I worked in Bibliographic Records and then Acquisitions. Infact, it was rare for any of the qualified librarians to to be visible within the library.

Typically, it would be library assistants working on the issue desk and shelving, and they weren't necessarily well educated or well read. There was no need for them to be, though we did have the occasional chartered librarian working as a shelver/library assistant because the hours fitted in around child care etc. I witnessed a few uppity students get very politely taken down a peg or two by members of staff who were far better qualified and well read than they.

At my local library the qualified librarian was retired years ago and it's now purely staffed by volunteers who do an excellent job.

As for an English specialist teacher not having heard of Rebecca, but that’s OK because it’s not on the curriculum...God help us. If Dickens wasn’t on the curriculum that year, would it be OK not to have heard of him? Chaucer? George Eliot?
As I said up thread, English teachers cover a range of specialists:
Older literature specialists
Modern literature specialists
Drama and theatre specialists
English language specialists
Linguistics specialists
Media specialists
Journalism specialists

Do you think that all English teachers should have a working knowledge of phonetics? What about Chekov? Should they all know the full history of rhetoric from ancient civilisation to the present day? Should they all know about the evolution of the English language and how variations of English are changing around the world to this day? Should they all be well versed in Victorian children's literature?
What exactly is the key must have knowledge that would make someone pass your "knowledge that is not on the curriculum" test?

I've worked with people who have an exceptional knowledge of early literature and studied Beowulf in its original form, and have studied texts in Old Norse. Their knowledge of 20th century literature isn't as strong. I'd certainly not be saying "God help us" if my DC were taught by them because I don't confuse "stuff I know" with "stuff I think others should know because I know it".

What is the name of the book series that inspired HBOs Game Of Thrones? A Song of Ice & Fire

Name a George RR Martin novel not in said series? A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

Name a Margaret Atwood novel other than The Handmaid's Tale? The Testaments

Name two JK Rowling books where the proceeds went to charity? Don't know

What's Frankenstein's monster called? Adam

Which Marlowe play does Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice plagerise? Don't know

What's the second adventure of Lewis Carol's Alice called? Alice's Adventures Through the Looking Glass

Thousands of people do or have done 'A' level English Literature. Those pupils have families and friends who take an interest in what they are studying. This helps books to become better known. But books are also selected for the syllabi partly on the basis of the cultural impact that they've already had, so the fact of it being included is a sign that it was already well known.

I'm an English Graduate, an avid reader and have wide ranging tastes. I also worked as a Library Assistant about 11 years ago for a few months. The things people asked most often were
Have you got the book of that film that's just come out? (It was One Day. Every single copy was reserved for months).
Can I do photocopies here?
What's my password?
Have you got a copy of today's paper
Where can I get a copy of an old Street map.

Some of my colleagues were fantastic qualified librarians with huge historical interest and could find you 5 different books on Indian Partition plus novels set then or could get you a load of biographies of Jane Austen and feminist theory on Austen heroines. Another worked in the music library and could recommend a biography of hundreds of musicians from Chopin to Lemmy. He'd have had no idea what Troilus and Cressida was. Others were interested in art history and could help there and help you find a series of books on any art movement you liked as well as chatting about the Turner Prize.They probably couldn't name all the Booker Prize winners from the 80s onwards though.
As someone else alluded the most borrowed books aren't "cannon" it's the same popular books for sale in Asda and Tesco 2 for £8. You can read a lot without wanting to read literature, my library had a celebration of Mills and Boon. Not my thing but highly popular. Reading is reading, it can be escapism or for knowledge or to do an essay.

Councilworker
I agree with you. Your colleagues remind me of the colleague I had with a fantastic knowledge of early literature. She could make lots of recommendations and talk at length on the topic. It was fascinating.
I trained with someone who did their degree in American Studies and loved being in their seminar group. American literature wouldn't have been my chosen area to specialise, but I founds lots of good reads from them. They also took away good suggestions from others.

@peaceanddove

What is the name of the book series that inspired HBOs Game Of Thrones? A Song of Ice & Fire

Name a George RR Martin novel not in said series? A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

Name a Margaret Atwood novel other than The Handmaid's Tale? The Testaments

Name two JK Rowling books where the proceeds went to charity? Don't know

What's Frankenstein's monster called? Adam

Which Marlowe play does Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice plagerise? Don't know

What's the second adventure of Lewis Carol's Alice called? Alice's Adventures Through the Looking Glass

The JK one. The Ickabog definitely. Possible Quidditch Through the Ages, the Tales of Beedle The Bard or Fantastic Beasts and Where to find Them.

I did my Higher English book study on Frankestein... and I couldnt remember that one! How terrible.

@SunnydaleClassProtector99

Quick 'culture' test. What is the name of the book series that inspired HBOs Game Of Thrones? Name a George RR Martin novel not in said series? Name a Margaret Atwood novel other than The Handmaid's Tale? Name two JK Rowling books where the proceeds went to charity? What's Frankenstein's monster called? Which Marlowe play does Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice plagerise? What's the second adventure of Lewis Carol's Alice called?

I’m an English graduate who reads voraciously and can only answer two of those. The only omissions causing me any shame are the Frankenstein and Shakespeare ones, I have zero interest in Game of Thrones.

@LolaSmiles

As for an English specialist teacher not having heard of Rebecca, but that’s OK because it’s not on the curriculum...God help us. If Dickens wasn’t on the curriculum that year, would it be OK not to have heard of him? Chaucer? George Eliot? As I said up thread, English teachers cover a range of specialists: Older literature specialists Modern literature specialists Drama and theatre specialists English language specialists Linguistics specialists Media specialists Journalism specialists

Do you think that all English teachers should have a working knowledge of phonetics? What about Chekov? Should they all know the full history of rhetoric from ancient civilisation to the present day? Should they all know about the evolution of the English language and how variations of English are changing around the world to this day? Should they all be well versed in Victorian children's literature?
What exactly is the key must have knowledge that would make someone pass your "knowledge that is not on the curriculum" test?

I've worked with people who have an exceptional knowledge of early literature and studied Beowulf in its original form, and have studied texts in Old Norse. Their knowledge of 20th century literature isn't as strong. I'd certainly not be saying "God help us" if my DC were taught by them because I don't confuse "stuff I know" with "stuff I think others should know because I know it".

Do you think that all English teachers should have a working knowledge of phonetics?

They should know what phonetics are. That’s the point. You can be aware of things without having a ‘working knowledge’ of them. The OP didn’t expect the library assistant to explain the principal themes in As You Like It. She expected the library assistant to have heard of the play.

What about Chekov?

Yes, this may shock you, I would expect an English teacher to have heard of Anton Chekhov.

Should they all know the full history of rhetoric from ancient civilisation to the present day?

They should know what rhetoric is, yes?

Should they all know about the evolution of the English language and how variations of English are changing around the world to this day?

An English teacher should be aware of old English and Middle English, surely? Or do you think that it would be OK for them never to have heard of either?

Should they all be well versed in Victorian children's literature?

It would be rather odd if they hadn’t heard of Lewis Carroll or Mark Twain, right?

I don't confuse "stuff I know" with "stuff I think others should know because I know it".

Nor do I. Once more I refer you to the difference between general knowledge and common knowledge.

Look, I’m really sorry that I’ve denied you the chance to have a good old go at me, but this time it just hasn’t worked, has it? Better luck on the next thread!