To be shocked the librarian was so poorly read?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

In the library recently reserving some books for dd. Librarian had not heard of A Handmaid’s Tale and did not know that As you Like It was written by Shakespeare.

These are not exactly obscure books!

AIBU?

@TinaYouFatLard

It’s THE Handmaid’s Tale.

Blessed be the fruit.

They many well be a volunteer. Lots of libraries are indeed manned by volunteers. My mum is one, to start off with they had a qualified librarian come from the big library in the town to support and get them trained but now the village library is fully volunteers only. Without them it would be gone.

The books are the main part of the library but it’s more than that and a good library is an amazing community resource. Lots of people come in to use the computers or internet often for job hunting, people come to photocopy, people come for local information or to pass the time of day, somewhere quiet to work or somewhere safe to spend some time. Vulnerable people. Book clubs. Baby rhyme time. Tots tales. Somewhere for all ages. Not just books; audio books, newspapers, magazines, films, Braille, resources in other languages.

The volunteers need to know how to manage the books of course and help with book enquiries but they also need to know how to deal with the library book terminals, the computers, the photocopiers, work the till, deal with the general public and all manner of random enquiries, open the building, lock up the building. So when they are recruiting volunteers I think the enthusiasm and aptitude for those tasks would probably rate higher than their personal knowledge of books. As long as they can find out the information they don’t need to know it all.

I know those two and I’m sure my mum would as well. But that said I know how hard her and her volunteer colleagues work and I would feel a bit sad if they got an eye roll or a complaint for not knowing a book even if it was well known.

You don’t know what you don’t know right? No one knows everything.

Also one interaction isn’t enough to judge someone really. If every time you go in they can’t or won’t help then that’s not ok but one conversation people may not be at their sharpest for any number of reasons. I once asked somewhat what their name was and they said they didn’t know. Obviously they didn’t hear me properly. In these moments you get to choose whether to make someone feel like a right idiot or not.

Be kind. Support your libraries. Volunteers are generally lovely and much needed.

The only reason I've heard of Eagle of the Ninth is because it was a great favourite of my husband's and he bought it for ds.

Does that make me an ignoramus too?

Did Eagle of the Ninth win the Booker prize? Is it regarded as one of the most culturally significant and influential books of the late 20th century? Is its author a famous figure in the literary world? No. It might be a good book, but there is a world of difference between never having heard of a children’s book and not being aware of The Handmaid’s Tale.

If you aren't interested in Shakespeare, or hadn't studied much of it at school why would you know the names of all the plays?

intellectual snobbishness at it's (sic) worst.

As noted by a PP, there is a world of difference between ‘knowing all the plays’ and recognising the name of one of the most famous and widely-performed plays by arguably the best known and most influential figure in the history of English literature.

@bendmeoverbackwards

Surely part of the job is recommending books to library users? I would expect that in either a library or a bookshop.

Welcome to the real world. People who work in bookshops aren't expected to do that. You do need to know where things are but it's very unlikely that you'll be expected to recommend books. I used to work in WH Smith and nobody EVER asked me to recommend things. It's the same with music. In fact, when I had an interview at HMV I talked about recommending albums and the guy who interviewed me said, "You really think that'll happen?" I mean, sure, great if you like books but that's not how it works. And not all library assistants are literature experts.

And when I was a library assistant, I didn't get asked to recommend books, all I did was put them on shelves and handle fines.

@Triffid1

I think there's some serious subject bias here. Shakespeare knowledge, sure, I guess you'd expect a librarian (assuming, as PP have pointed out that she was a professional librarian and not just a volunteer etc) to know Shakespeare having had a fairly traditional education. But The Handmaid's Tale? Come on. Only people who are interested in feminist literature (or who have watched the TV show) would know that. Again, a professional librarian would likely know it on the basis that if, for example, they had a section for feminist literature, Margaret Attwood would be an obvious major contributor. But that assumes the library includes a specific section on feminist literature, which is a big assumption.

@Triffid1

This.

Also, keep in mind that the person you spoke to may know a huge amount of titles you've never heard of, which maybe of equal importance or value.

Most staff at libraries are library assistants. If it's a council, they have a habit of thinking that working in a library is an 'easy' stress-free job and so often redeploy people there who are quite frankly unsuitable for it. Not many educated, well-read people are willing or even able to work part time or non-guaranteed hours on just above minimum wage, and when I mean 'just', I mean sometimes it's only a few pence above it. A lot of people who are seriously into literature will end up working as English teachers not as library staff who are constantly under the budget chopping block. Then there's the fact that many library staff, even in more senior positions, are employed not because they love literature or books - it's because they want an admin job sorting out through numbers and titles.

Councils are already wanting to replace as many staff as possible with machines and self-service, so this post may be very dates in a few years.

Or the growing anti intellectualism, where we have to pretend that ignorance is "equal" to knowledge, so as not to be branded a "snob".

There was a thread here a few years ago where someone claimed that not knowing who President Obama is, is no different from not knowing who the lead character in Coronation Street is. On the grounds that some people's hobby is "following politics" and some people's hobby is "following soaps" and both are equally valid and it's snobbish to act like one hobby is morally superior to the other.

Never having heard of Obama!!!

"intellectual snobbishness at it's (sic) worst."

Loving that you felt the need to put the sic in there .

That sums my point up perfectly - imagine being so up your arse that you were concerned that strangers on an anoymous website thought you might misplace an apostrophe.

In the real world, As You Like It is 2nd tier Shakespeare. I'd probably be slightly shocked if people hadn't heard of Romeo and Juliet/Macbeth/Hamlet but AYLT? Nah. It's not even that good.

And besides, so what? Don't make the mistake of thinking that knowledge of random, mostly useless facts = intelligence.

Mind you, nothing was worse than dd's English teacher saying she hadn't heard of Rebecca shock
Why would they? Someone else might not like DuMaurier and think certain WW1 texts are 'everyone knows' books, someone else might say "I can't believe they didn't know about Chekov'. What they actually mean is "I know about this book and think it should be common knowledge".

English teachers include modern literature specialists, older literature specialists, linguistics specialists, English language specialists, media studies or journalism specialists, drama and theatre specialists. Teaching the curriculum does not equal having detailed knowledge of all texts across all these areas.

@GreyhoundG1rl

over time you would see hundreds of books and absorb information? You actually think information is absorbed by osmosis, simply by being in the presence of books? It's an interesting theory, certainly. I'll put it to the test instead of prodding ds1 to revise for GCSEs.

@GreyhoundG1rl I assume part of your duties as a volunteer would be to return books to the shelves? To do so you would have to look at the author and work out if it was fiction/non fiction, so over time absorb information? Isn’t that how your children learn say mathematical equations or history dates by repeatedly going over them?

As noted by a PP, there is a world of difference between ‘knowing all the plays’ and recognising the name of one of the most famous and widely-performed plays by arguably the best known and most influential figure in the history of English literature

There is a world of difference in that

But all we know is that the librarian didn’t know that As you like it was written by shakespeare...not that she didn’t know who shakespeare was

I’d also be very surprised by an English teacher who hadn’t heard of Rebecca. I wouldn’t expect an in-depth knowledge to be ready to teach it, but a subject specialist really should have a working knowledge of classic English literature.

Well I can assure you that back in the 1970s and early 1980s (just before I left the profession) the library I ran was not a place of hallowed silence! If you needed silence to study I would have politely directed you to the central reference library.

Every week we had children's activities such as quizzes, craft sessions and so on. We also had other outreach activities for adults such as poetry and folk evenings. Once we had a local barbershop choir with an audience of well over 100 in the evening. Library staff such as myself also did talks to local schools, and organizations such as the WI on the benefits of using the library. We took books out to housebound readers and had a yearly party for then! So the library was very much part of the community.

As several have pointed out libraries can be noisy and busy places, especially on a saturday when we often had queues at both counters. People were not used to waiting in line in the library and could sometimes get quite arsey about it. I do not know why this was so since in those days you had to queue in the bank, post office, and often in shops. That was in addition to people calling in or ringing up for odd pieces of information. Librarians (and library assistants) were not expected to know every book on the shelves. But they were expected to know how to look up information in a timely manner.

Working in a library does not only teach you about books. You learn a range of customer service skills which can come in useful for other careers. You also learn valuable administrative skills, how to organize and access information. Nowadays it is more about technology than printed books.

Its ironic that my doctorate was based on how readers in the university library used the computerized library catalogue. The internet was in its infancy back in the 1990s but the profession had changed already out of al recognition in the few years since I left it.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl
I have only just finished Shadow of th

But all we know is that the librarian didn’t know that As you like it was written by shakespeare...not that she didn’t know who shakespeare was

Who suggested that she didn’t know who Shakespeare was? I said this:

recognising the name of one of the most famous and widely-performed plays by arguably the best known and most influential figure in the history of English literature

The name of the play, not the name of Shakespeare himself. In response to a poster who claimed that the OP expected the library assistant to know every Shakespeare play. She didn’t. The OP was surprised that somebody working in a library hadn’t heard of As You Like It, one of the best known Shakespeare plays.

Our local library is housed in the community centre. It caters mainly for small kids and older people. I don't think there is a classic book in it. It's all the latest thrillers and best sellers. That's obviously what is wanted. I would doubt the woman working in there has an extensive knowledge of classic literature but she's pretty good at helping the old folk use the photocopier and the internet which is what is required.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

I have only just finished Shadow of the Wind. Never heard of it before, I found it on our work book swap shelf and thought it looked good. I have a d

I was also a teacher for many years and English was my subject. So I can name several Shakespeare plays, some Dickens, John Steinbeck, Thomas Hardy, but not all.
I'll be honest, I am about someone who was an English teacher only being able to name 'several' Shakespeare plays.

Or maybe some people just aren't that interested in certain things?
Someone who's working in a library can reasonably be expected, IMO, to be interested in/have decent knowledge of canonical works of literature.

Oopsie 😀

Sorry Iam

I

@Iamthewombat but it ISNT one of his best known plays, not even in the top ten and rarely performed in comparison to some of his other titles.

@UrAWizHarry

"intellectual snobbishness at it's (sic) worst."

Loving that you felt the need to put the sic in there .

That sums my point up perfectly - imagine being so up your arse that you were concerned that strangers on an anoymous website thought you might misplace an apostrophe.

In the real world, As You Like It is 2nd tier Shakespeare. I'd probably be slightly shocked if people hadn't heard of Romeo and Juliet/Macbeth/Hamlet but AYLT? Nah. It's not even that good.

And besides, so what? Don't make the mistake of thinking that knowledge of random, mostly useless facts = intelligence.

I don’t have to justify what I post to you. Your insecurity is showing.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that knowledge of random, mostly useless facts = intelligence

Who has suggested that?

Although I’d like to know how many genuinely intelligent people lack a reasonable level of general knowledge, particularly related to the field they work in.

Im obviously not going to complete the sentence starting with I

I’m just going to hid somewhere

Librarians are mostly volunteers or employees whoare there to help people log on to computers, photocopy, use the returns machine etc. I’d expect them to be interested enough to have read a few books, know what’s on the display stands, be able to recommend some books of their choosing, be able to direct to different book categories. In a general library I wouldn’t expect somebody with specialist knowledge and training, maybe different if you’re going to a specialist/ university library

@ohforarainyday

I would expect anyone who'd finished secondary school to have at least heard of some of the most famous writers and books of all time, even if they'd not read them.

We are hardly talking about obscure, recondite knowledge.

Having a passing familiarity with Shakespeare hardly requires a postgraduate degree. I'd be shocked if a 12-year-old couldn't name some of Shakespeare's most famous plays. (We're hardly talking about Pericles or Henry VI Part I here.)

I would be more shocked if they could!

My eldest is 15 and hasn't studied Shakespeare at school. Would be surprised if he could list more than 3 or 4 Shakespeare works.

The Handmaid’s Tale is on the A Level Eng Lit syllabus and was a major TV adaptation. Even if you haven’t watched it (I haven’t as the main actress is a Scientologist) I’d be slightly surprised if a librarian had never even heard of it. I don’t need them to know the ins and outs but the title should ring a bell.

Having said that, my mother (who was a bit of a snob to be fair) got about 15 years worth of anecdote out of the time she went into Waterstones Waterstones asking for “Zadie Smith’s newest book....it’s just been nominated for the Man Booker...” and the assistant asked her if it was fiction. Mother was aghast.

I read The Handmaid's Tale for A'Level. Unfortunately at 16 I was too young to understand it. If I hadn't done it a A'Level I probably would have never read it. It's classed (by a lot of bookshops) as dystopian or science fiction which is genre's I don't generally go for. Would I have heard of it? I honestly can't say.
I am curious if the people on here who are all "but it won the Booker prize in 1986" can tell me (without googling it) what the winners were in 85 and 87. 1986 is 35 years ago. Some of the library staff/volunteers are younger than 35.