To be shocked the librarian was so poorly read?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

In the library recently reserving some books for dd. Librarian had not heard of A Handmaid’s Tale and did not know that As you Like It was written by Shakespeare.

These are not exactly obscure books!

AIBU?

@Gembie

Totally unsurprised. When I finished uni I joined a local council library only to find it was rammed with pulp fiction. Depressing but I guess that’s what’s popular

That is true, they go round taking older, less borrowed books off the shelves and they get pulped in a lot of cases. Margaret Attwood wouldn't be pulped though.

No-one would expect an assistant in Sainsbury's to know every product. That is ridiculous. But I would expect them to have heard of Marmite or Shredded Wheat or similar. That is the situation here. The poster who said they worked in an academic library and didn't know every book - of course no one could expect you to! It's a question of what should be common knowledge, and what is specialist.
Anyway I'm with you OP.

[quote Ted27]@bendmeoverbackwards

your comparison with sales assistant knowing their stock

I worked for a time in Sainsburys, on one occasion I was berated by a customer whilst on the shop floor for not knowing whether we stocked a particular item. Your average superstore stocks in excess of 40, 000 lines. Would you seriously expect a shop worker to know 40,000 individual items.
If not why would you expect someone working in a library to know every book
@Fairyliz not knowing about a specific book does not make you stupid[/quote]
it’s not about knowing or having read every book or being familiar with every product stocked. It’s about having a good general overview of the basics, that’s not much to ask for is it not?

I do think customer service and product knowledge has gone downhill in recent years. In days gone by, John Lewis staff for example were real experts in their particular departments. What they didn’t know wasn’t worth knowing. These days you ask a question and they look it up on THEIR website 😂

Everyone should have at least a rudimentary knowledge of their country's history and culture, surely. To be British (presuming this staff member was?) and to not have even have HEARD of a work by Shakespeare is quite shocking. You don't need to be "into" Shakespeare or even literature, it should be general knowledge! Even I know this stuff and I wasn't born here, and English isn't my first language

I've heard of a lot of Shakespeare but not sure I could list every play. I've only read about three of his plays anyway, coming through school before Michael Gove's era (thank goodness).

I wonder how many people on here saying you should be well read as a matter of course also think that the government is doing the right thing in emphasising STEM subjects at degree level...

(and no it's not different, because if you don't encourage arts subjects at uni, even fewer people will have the essential general arts and literature knowledge you think we should all have)

I'm a librarian and I'd say it's a pretty poor show they'd never heard of those.

@poppycat10

If I wanted a book in a library or bookshop I would know title and the author

but people don't. Exactly as the OP says, they hear something mentioned on the TV, or read about it in the paper, but then they forget the name and the title but go into the library or bookshop looking for it. It's amazing how often the staff do work it out and can order it in, or it's on the shelf.

This book is brilliant and very funny

www.amazon.co.uk/Weird-Things-Customers-Say-Bookshops/dp/1780334834?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Anyway OP, next time you need to reserve books, get your dd to do it online and you won't have to deal with uncultured, uneducated, unintelligent library assistants.

I use fantastic fiction to check books I might like to read and then order online from council library. These are delivered to the site of your choice and is a free service.

@3totheright4totheleft

No-one would expect an assistant in Sainsbury's to know every product. That is ridiculous. But I would expect them to have heard of Marmite or Shredded Wheat or similar. That is the situation here. The poster who said they worked in an academic library and didn't know every book - of course no one could expect you to! It's a question of what should be common knowledge, and what is specialist. Anyway I'm with you OP.

If you aren't interested in Shakespeare, or hadn't studied much of it at school why would you know the names of all the plays?

intellectual snobbishness at it's worst.

Shelving books can require the ability to use logical thinking Does John le Carre belong under L or C? Where to put Barbara Taylor Bradford? And Alexander McCall Smith? With Non-fiction does 940.012 go before or after 940.0013? And what do you do with the Sophie Hannah Agatha Christie books?The Nora Roberts ones that are written with the surname Robb?

I dispute how much critical thinking is required, we have global classification schemes, it just requires an understanding of the system used, often Dewey decimal. Even cataloguing is automated now with most libraries taking the record from a central repository like LOC.

I'm a trained librarian/archivist. However I'm not on the 'shop floor' very often. Most of those in front facing capacities are paid library assistants or volunteers (who do an amazing job). I'm pretty well read, however I don't expect any of my staff to be so, great if they are but if not any book, article, reference etc can be found on our library system.
On a lighter note I found The Handmaid's Tale to be pretty dull; a fabulous alternative (though not as literary) is Louise ONeill's Only Ever Yours if your daughter is interested OP.

@adeleh Yes I've noticed this too. There's a definite class division when it comes to knowledge and interests.
Also one thing I noticed is that here schools go over the same material over and over rather than giving a breadth of knowledge.
In my country of origin you have an anthology-type book where there are excerpts of famous works, both from that country and also world literature. You read from it in class and discuss it.
So you might not have deep knowledge of any one work, you might not even have read the whole book but you're at least aware of it and have an overview of what it's about. Because the aim of secondary education is to give you general knowledge, not to make you an expert.
But here we studied Macbeth and nothing else for an entire term, in so much detail..in total we only did a handful of books. Same with history, ages and ages spent analysing every detail of WW2, yet people hadn't even heard of the Ottoman Empire. I think that's what's behind the huge gaps in knowledge. I'm sure I have plenty of gaps too, btw. But I try to rectify it rather than dismissing things. A friend of mine (a teacher no less) said she would never read War and Peace because she "couldn't imagine reading such a long book"

Our local libraries provide it - so filled with folk playing you tube, usually drill or something g with staff or volunteers not too keen on wanting to ask them to use headphones.

The seating to chill out, flick through a book always has people using library as a warm space on them for the day. Often have someone who may be homeless, someone having a kip as they are drunk, groups of men shouting or talking loudly. West Yorkshire Town - I bet some one can guess it!

@poppycat10

And it certainly isn't prevalent in a nation like France, where it's taken for granted that people are widely interested in literature and philosophy

So I am glad I don't live in France as I am more interested in geography and history.

I don't think I ever suggested that people were banned from being interested in other subjects. And I think it would be more than possible that somebody interested in history and geography, might have an overlapping interest in literature/ philosophy. These were examples.

So judgemental! Does it make you feel superior when you mock a woman doing just trying to do her job?

@UrAWizHarry Obviously you didn't read my post properly.

It’s not about being interested in certain things. I’m not interested in jazz, but I’ve heard of miles Davis. I’ve never read a book on philosophy, but I know satre and Kant are significant philosophers. Know nothing about cricket and couldn’t stand to watch a match, but am aware there’s such a thing as a ‘googly’ - no idea what it is, mind!

I couldn’t give you any more detail about these things, but they are examples of the kind of stuff you just pick up from reading and watching a range of things, talking to different types of people.

Saying you ought to be able to name each of Shakespeare’s works if you’re surprised someone hasn’t heard of one of the more famous plays is like challenging someone to name every province and major city in China if you expect someone to be aware the capital is Beijing.

The Handmaid's Tale is not as widely known as it's being made out here. It's gained popularity because of the TV show, so I would not necessarily expect a librarian to have watched it.

Titus Andronicus is by Shakespeare too. I bet most people saying they should have known the comedy mentioned don't know that title either. Of course that might be because it's rarely adapted to film or TV.

Shakespeare just happens to be the most well known so people think you're well read if you know them. I'm much more impressed by a knowledge of Marlowe More myself, but don't think you can be an early modern snob because you did Twelfth Night for GCSE.

@poppycat10

there is a real attitude in the UK that it's 'uncool', 'snobby', 'posh' to show that you're interested in learning and culture

I don't think there is. It's just ok not to be interested in things that certain people think you should be interested in like opera or theatre. People confuse being interested in something with intelligence.

I agree that people shouldn't confuse interest with intelligence - not the same thing at all. But there is a defensiveness here about being able to enjoy culture and intellectual pursuits without it meaning that you are trying to show that you're superior/ showing off. It's translated to what's available on TV too - you used to be able to watch brilliant things on BBC2 and Channel 4 especially. There's some good stuff still on BBC4, but now the BBC want to close that down as well. It's like the suspicion provoked in some by hearing a foreign language on the street and wanting to tell somebody only to speak English. In other countries multilingualism is simply the norm. There isn't this prevailing attitude that somebody is doing something untoward or showing off if they choose not to speak in English.

@ChoChoCrazyCat

Some of you are spectacularly missing the point. It isn't about knowing every single book or or having encyclopaedic knowledge, or whether you're a "proper" librarian or someone on minimum wage. Everyone should have at least a rudimentary knowledge of their country's history and culture, surely. To be British (presuming this staff member was?) and to not have even have HEARD of a work by Shakespeare is quite shocking. You don't need to be "into" Shakespeare or even literature, it should be general knowledge! Even I know this stuff and I wasn't born here, and English isn't my first language.

Perhaps it's a reflection of the state of education? Or the growing anti intellectualism, where we have to pretend that ignorance is "equal" to knowledge, so as not to be branded a "snob". And yes, I would expect someone working in a library to have heard of at least the classics!

I could probably only make a few Shakespeare plays. Really not my thing and haven't as much as looked at one since leaving school where we only studied one Shakespeare play.

Why would I need to know the names of plays I have zero interest in?

I’m a not especially well read librarian in terms of fiction. I read mainly non fiction and journal articles because that’s what interests me. My talents lie in systematic reviews in healthcare. Does that mean it’s ok for me to not have a vast knowledge of fiction authors? I mean I am a librarian and all.

As an aside please can people stop referring to everyone who works in libraries as librarians?! 😂 The majority aren’t. My parents have never been able to understand that I don’t sit around reading and stamping books all day or why I need a MSc and PGCE to do that.

Anyway, that’s not relevant and just me ranting.

In spite of not being well read I do know MA. Oryx and Crake is one of my favs. I also remember Shakespeare from GCSE. I’m proud to have a good level of education and I am keen to learn new things.

From my experience of working with younger people (health care students) most aren’t interested in learning beyond what they need or reading around subjects. Or recreational reading to broaden their horizons. They’d rather spend that time on social media or playing games.

Times are different and the library of old is long gone 😢

I would expect anyone who'd finished secondary school to have at least heard of some of the most famous writers and books of all time, even if they'd not read them.

We are hardly talking about obscure, recondite knowledge.

Having a passing familiarity with Shakespeare hardly requires a postgraduate degree. I'd be shocked if a 12-year-old couldn't name some of Shakespeare's most famous plays. (We're hardly talking about Pericles or Henry VI Part I here.)

@poppycat10

Everyone should have at least a rudimentary knowledge of their country's history and culture, surely. To be British (presuming this staff member was?) and to not have even have HEARD of a work by Shakespeare is quite shocking. You don't need to be "into" Shakespeare or even literature, it should be general knowledge! Even I know this stuff and I wasn't born here, and English isn't my first language

I've heard of a lot of Shakespeare but not sure I could list every play. I've only read about three of his plays anyway, coming through school before Michael Gove's era (thank goodness).

I agree

The librarian may have known hamlet or macbeth or romeo and juliet

They just didn’t know As you like it

[quote ChoChoCrazyCat]@UrAWizHarry Obviously you didn't read my post properly.[/quote]
Pretty sure I did.

I wouldn't consider knowledge of a 2nd tier shakespeare play to be "rudimentary".

Some people aren't interested in some things. And that, actually, is perfectly fine. I wouldn't expect someone on min wage or volunteering in a library to have indepth knowledge of every book in the place because that would be absurd.