Angry MIL - Time difference

[tellmetellmepleasetellme]

Name changed for this. We live in a country which is 6 hours ahead of DH’s home country. Last week it was MIL’s birthday. Both she and FIL had been suffering from Covid and we had been in daily contact through a family Whatsapp group and FaceTime to check in on them.

Not thinking we both sent a message into the family chat when we got to the office (which was about 3 am their time) to wish her a HBD and a few pictures of the kids. She messaged back to say she was sleeping and not to send any more messages. We both stopped and agreed when it was their morning we would send a message and apologise.

Then came message after message, a tirade of abuse from her about how selfish we are as people and we don’t care about her and had planned this to deliberately ruin her birthday, knowing full well she was ill. Multiple messages which escalated to accusations of how we are takers and have never given anything to the PILs or DH’s siblings (not true). She was clearly awake by this time so we both sent a message to say we were truly sorry and we were not thinking about the time difference. More abuse followed in numerous messages, each one more personal, sweary and hate filled.

Later in the day we got one more message to tell us what terrible people we were and that she was angry we had asked her what she had wanted for her bday when we spoke weeks earlier and she asked if it was to taunt her as we never send anything (which we had but it obviously just didn’t arrive in time).

We did not respond at all other than the one message each to apologise . It felt like she was trying to inflate our crime to fit her punishment in front of her audience (FIL and DH’s siblings). That evening we sent her a video of the kids wishing her a HBD.

A few days past and the package with her present arrived (we sent by post from our country of residence 2 weeks prior) and we got a message from her to say she was still ill but starting to feel better and thank you for the presents and it was as if none of this episode had taken place. DH just replied to say glad to hear you are starting to feel better. This was 4-5 days ago now.

We are fully aware we were wrong to send the messages at a time when they could have disturbed her. I felt so bad initially that I may have done this without thinking regularly and it was a build up of anger (given the intensity of her rage) so I looked back through the family chat and most of our messages going to them had been during their day time. MIL and the siblings’ messages on other hand had been regularly in the middle of our night time 11 pm -5 am, but we put our phones on silent mode so do not get woken up or we just ignore it if we hear the phone.

For full disclosure she has form for this. The whole family walk on eggshells to avoid setting her off. It’s the most awful family dynamics when we visit. At least every second visit she would find a reason to be upset with us and she would tell us to leave her home (24 hours trip door to door, to get there, 2 kids in tow) and then cry and wail when we start to pack about us taking the kids away from her. Then the others all beg us not to go. It’s becoming a ritual. I really cannot put in one OP how much of this same old tired act she has pulled over the last 2 decades.

We are hurt and angry at how vicious and personal she got. I can understand she was ill and needed to rest. It was a genuine mistake and we had apologised unreservedly. AIBU to not be able to move on until, for just this one time, she apologises? Just even an ounce of acknowledgment of how terrible her behaviour was in this instance (let alone all the other times). DH and I are unified in our approach towards the situation right now but I know from bitter experience how far her pattern of behaviours is ingrained into her children. Sooner or later they all go back to her hostage style for more of the same cycle of abuse.

I’m just really struggling to let it go and I don’t want to pretend nothing happened and that we are one happy family to keep the peace and enable her disgusting behaviour. I do feel bad as the kids are young and there is no way for them to have contact unless it's through one of us. So by going no contact we are also in effect withholding contact between PILs and our kids. Any advice?

From my own experience of having a relative like this: I would not blast her with ‘a few home truths’ as several have recommended. You’ll feel satisfied in the short term but in the long term it’ll be something she can guilt you about, or she’ll get other relatives to guilt you on her behalf. She got you to feel guilty for wishing her happy birthday, she will have no trouble at all getting you to feel guilty for calling her a stroppy old witch who makes her grown son’s life a misery, etc.

I would also not hold out for an apology, because you won’t get one (or if you do it’ll be a non-genuine guilt-trippy one) and it’ll be something else she can use to control the situation when discussing this with other family, which she will.

What worked best with my difficult relative was what one of her daughters did, which was to have a really low threshold for saying “Mum, stop now or I’m leaving”. And she literally would just get up and walk out and cut contact until she wanted to resume it, and ignore any guilt-trip calls in the meantime. No yelling, no empty threats, no “I’ll never speak to you again!” that got walked back later, just: stop or ill leave, and then calmly leaving.

It seemed to work better than what the other sisters did, which was all sorts of begging and arguing and explaining and “if you agree to say sorry I’ll bring the kids back” etc etc. And that daughter got a lot less bullied and pushed around as an consequence.

Definitely don’t stay with MIL if you decide to go and visit again. You would be totally within your rights to never visit and cut all contact forever, but assuming your DH won’t (permanently anyway) agree to that, at least set boundaries that you can use to ensure you can won’t be subjected to lengthy tantrums.

Oh, and my difficult relative died at a ripe old age after a lifetime of people going “she HAS to stop doing that!”, and did not ever stop doing that or say sorry for it or ever really feel like she was in the wrong.

I think why her one daughter’s approach worked is that it successfully separated out what she could control from what she couldn’t.

What you can’t control, with a relative like that:

• whether they say sorry
• whether they feel sorry
• whether they throw tantrums
• what they think about you
• what they say about you to other family members
• what they get other family members to say to you
• whether they reflect on their own horrendous behaviour
• whether they hear what you have to say about their current/past behaviour.

What you can control:

• how much contact you accept with them
• whether you stay in a conversation/situation/argument or walk away from it
• whether you visit them or not, and where you go when you visit.

The only levers you have are in the second category. You can’t use them to affect things in the first category, don’t even try - you are not trying to fix her, you are making decisions about what you want and need for your bit of the family.

@GoldenOmber - 100% agree. All about simple INTERVENTIONS sans ACTIONS - that are calm, considered, consistent and followed through.

Do not get triggered into their toxic energy dynamics.

They want to provoke so that they can twist use your words as a ammunition against you to prove themselves right to others.

Don’t give it to them.

She’s a mad bat. Why have anything to do with her?

Go NC or v v v v v LC

Certainly don’t take the children to visit her.

I'm always surprised by the level of abuse people put up with just because it is coming from family. I would honestly never speak to this woman again, wouldn't subject my children to her and let my DH deal with her if he wants.

@GoldenOmber

Oh, and my difficult relative died at a ripe old age after a lifetime of people going “she HAS to stop doing that!”, and did not ever stop doing that or say sorry for it or ever really feel like she was in the wrong.

I think why her one daughter’s approach worked is that it successfully separated out what she could control from what she couldn’t.

What you can’t control, with a relative like that:

• whether they say sorry
• whether they feel sorry
• whether they throw tantrums
• what they think about you
• what they say about you to other family members
• what they get other family members to say to you
• whether they reflect on their own horrendous behaviour
• whether they hear what you have to say about their current/past behaviour.

What you can control:

• how much contact you accept with them
• whether you stay in a conversation/situation/argument or walk away from it
• whether you visit them or not, and where you go when you visit.

The only levers you have are in the second category. You can’t use them to affect things in the first category, don’t even try - you are not trying to fix her, you are making decisions about what you want and need for your bit of the family.

I agree with everything you said. I won't bother explaining myself to her because even if I believed she had the capacity to understand my words I am more than certain she will deliberately misunderstand me. Any contact from me is future ammunition for her.

Thank you so much for the lists. It is really helpful in organising my thoughts.

I think very low contract and no staying with them in the future are the baseline from my side, and this is not for discussion with MIL, but it will be my stance with DH on this whole thing.

[quote Sssloou]@GoldenOmber - 100% agree. All about simple INTERVENTIONS sans ACTIONS - that are calm, considered, consistent and followed through.

Do not get triggered into their toxic energy dynamics.

They want to provoke so that they can twist use your words as a ammunition against you to prove themselves right to others.

Don’t give it to them.[/quote]
Exactly my thoughts.

Yeah, me too, OP - right down to the different countries. It's awful.

Leave the chat group. Block her. She'll go mad with the accusations and betrayal, but hey, you do not have to listen to it.

Do not meet up with her again. If you go, stay elsewhere and refuse to engage with her. Severely limit her access to your dc.

I've done all of this. It is very hard on the family, to have someone saying: This is unacceptable and abusive. People will take sides, and likely not yours. But you need to live your own life, model good relationships for your dc and protect their mental health.

Your dh will need counselling. Save the cost of the 2022 trip and pour that money into his good mental health instead. When he is feeling stronger, go have a holiday in his homeland. Meet up with his siblings.

But do not ever, from this day forward, engage with her again.

@Melitza I’m sorry your BIL did that to you but well done on your stance. It takes strength to stand up and say “no more ever from you”.

Life really is too short and people only act this way if others let them. When other family/friends say “well you know what they’re like” that gives me the absolute rage. So they’re saying that, because I know they act like a twat, I’m supposed to let them treat me that way?! Bollocks to that madness! It’s like saying that being a long term arsehole gives you permission to carry on. No chance!