Angry MIL - Time difference

[tellmetellmepleasetellme]

Name changed for this. We live in a country which is 6 hours ahead of DH’s home country. Last week it was MIL’s birthday. Both she and FIL had been suffering from Covid and we had been in daily contact through a family Whatsapp group and FaceTime to check in on them.

Not thinking we both sent a message into the family chat when we got to the office (which was about 3 am their time) to wish her a HBD and a few pictures of the kids. She messaged back to say she was sleeping and not to send any more messages. We both stopped and agreed when it was their morning we would send a message and apologise.

Then came message after message, a tirade of abuse from her about how selfish we are as people and we don’t care about her and had planned this to deliberately ruin her birthday, knowing full well she was ill. Multiple messages which escalated to accusations of how we are takers and have never given anything to the PILs or DH’s siblings (not true). She was clearly awake by this time so we both sent a message to say we were truly sorry and we were not thinking about the time difference. More abuse followed in numerous messages, each one more personal, sweary and hate filled.

Later in the day we got one more message to tell us what terrible people we were and that she was angry we had asked her what she had wanted for her bday when we spoke weeks earlier and she asked if it was to taunt her as we never send anything (which we had but it obviously just didn’t arrive in time).

We did not respond at all other than the one message each to apologise . It felt like she was trying to inflate our crime to fit her punishment in front of her audience (FIL and DH’s siblings). That evening we sent her a video of the kids wishing her a HBD.

A few days past and the package with her present arrived (we sent by post from our country of residence 2 weeks prior) and we got a message from her to say she was still ill but starting to feel better and thank you for the presents and it was as if none of this episode had taken place. DH just replied to say glad to hear you are starting to feel better. This was 4-5 days ago now.

We are fully aware we were wrong to send the messages at a time when they could have disturbed her. I felt so bad initially that I may have done this without thinking regularly and it was a build up of anger (given the intensity of her rage) so I looked back through the family chat and most of our messages going to them had been during their day time. MIL and the siblings’ messages on other hand had been regularly in the middle of our night time 11 pm -5 am, but we put our phones on silent mode so do not get woken up or we just ignore it if we hear the phone.

For full disclosure she has form for this. The whole family walk on eggshells to avoid setting her off. It’s the most awful family dynamics when we visit. At least every second visit she would find a reason to be upset with us and she would tell us to leave her home (24 hours trip door to door, to get there, 2 kids in tow) and then cry and wail when we start to pack about us taking the kids away from her. Then the others all beg us not to go. It’s becoming a ritual. I really cannot put in one OP how much of this same old tired act she has pulled over the last 2 decades.

We are hurt and angry at how vicious and personal she got. I can understand she was ill and needed to rest. It was a genuine mistake and we had apologised unreservedly. AIBU to not be able to move on until, for just this one time, she apologises? Just even an ounce of acknowledgment of how terrible her behaviour was in this instance (let alone all the other times). DH and I are unified in our approach towards the situation right now but I know from bitter experience how far her pattern of behaviours is ingrained into her children. Sooner or later they all go back to her hostage style for more of the same cycle of abuse.

I’m just really struggling to let it go and I don’t want to pretend nothing happened and that we are one happy family to keep the peace and enable her disgusting behaviour. I do feel bad as the kids are young and there is no way for them to have contact unless it's through one of us. So by going no contact we are also in effect withholding contact between PILs and our kids. Any advice?

I don't even think you did anything wrong with the message despite the time difference. I have friends all around the world and friends on different shift patterns. At night I put my phone on do not disturb (I have a few numbers that can still get through as an emergency) and there are usually 20 messages from different groups in the morning. I don't hate my friends and family for that!

How old is she? Any chance she has early stage dementia?

Your DH will forgive her because it's his Mother.

You did NOTHING wrong.

I would never tolerate this behaviour and would close the door on the vile woman.

I send my friends messages whenever, because they know to mute their notifications when they're asleep. My parents never do. They don't mute anything just in case I'm in a horrific accident and the police nee to call them. (Parents, eh?)

I'm very careful about what time I message them - it's a quirk, but it's one I know about, so I respect it. I do think it's a bit of a generational thing.

Honestly I can't even bear to read anymore, the woman is awful. I would have nothing more to do with her. I'd respect my partner's wishes if he wanted to stay in touch with his mum but no way would I be walking back into that mess.

You sent a message during the night, she found that annoying, you apologised. End of story. Don't engage any further, she doesn't want a reality, she wants drama.

This woman would never hear my voice or lay eyes on me again. How you could ever be around her again is beyond me.

My MIL used to be a bit like this. I stopped staying with her when overseas, stopped sitting in on Zoom calls with our children (although I'm always in the room in case of manipulation attempts) and delete ranty texts as they come in without reading. She's mellowed a fair bit. I just decided I didn't deserve that treatment and wouldn't put up with it. And when setting boundaries, never explain and ever apologise is a good approach.

Thank you everyone for your messages. I did talk to DH and he said himself that he feels he cannot deal with her behaviour anymore and he will need to think hard about next time we plan a visit. He did say maybe we only visit them for a week (normally it's around 3) and stay with one sibling and then do a driving holiday for another week with just our family so if it works out that way I would be glad but I will wait and see as his stance may change over time.

She video called DH yesterday when I was not in the same room. He said she was still behaving like she was annoyed with us and he felt she was expecting grovelling and further apologies. He just ignored that and asked after her and FIL's health and then just said bye. So no remorse, it seems.

I have muted the chat now so it's 'leaving' without giving her ammunition. I will just grey rock the whole thing. The earliest we can probably consider going to his home country will be spring 2022 so there is no need to make decisions now.

To an earlier poster. I don't think it's dementia. She has always been this way as far back as I have known her. I want things to change but I need DH to be on board and I think ranting about her at him will not be the way to do it. Unfortunately, I don't think he will consider counselling. This is a source of great shame to him. He is absolutely mortified that I discuss some of her behaviours with my family as my family are so calm and normal to him and he is so embarrassed about the dysfunction in his.

I feel this episode is far from over. The first call has come and it seems she didn't get what she wanted so I know to prepare for 2 eventualities which is either for her to up the ante, or to equal level of frustration, she may pretend nothing is wrong and expects things to carry on. They will not.

Thank you for all your advice. I have drawn strength from your words in dealing with the situation and will not let her dig her claws into my children.

@mainsfed

I agree with pp. I would leave the chat, don’t reward her shitty behaviour.

I can’t believe you sent her a video from the kids later that day after all that abuse! That’s madness.

If you take the plunge by cutting contact it might just be the push DH needs to put boundaries in place.

And i wouldn't be visiting either. DH can if he wants.

You can see she has a hold on them, but you’re not seeing that you’re in thrall to her too. Cut loose.

You are absolutely right. I had always considered myself as an outsider, looking in at this mess, but by yielding to DH and letting him have the decision making power on his family automatically makes me an enabler.

Unfortunately, as much as I want to be aloof about the whole thing, it is very clear that it is now mine and the kids' problem too. I need to step up to protect them.

Thank you. I needed to hear that.

I’ve got another suggestion. These toxic family members and their antics are fundamentally enabled by a ‘conspiracy of secrecy’ that the rest of the family offers them. Partly it’s due to shame, but also habit from when they were too young to tell anyone.

It’s interesting to see what happens when someone has that ‘emperor’s new clothes’ moment and breaks the secret wide open. Sometimes it’s enough for someone (like your DH) to have therapy, just hearing yourself tell an outsider about the behaviour they’ve had to deal with is very freeing and does something important to the ‘scared kid’ inside you.

In your position, I’d go further. I’d let it be known that the text rants were seen by outsiders, who were very shocked. Since you were at the office, it’d be viable to say that it was your colleagues- that the texts came through via a shared screen being used for work. Next time say that your parent was shocked to hear about it, or that you were upset so told a friend over coffee, and that the friend was very worried about the kids and you. Say you’ve spoken to your religious elder, or book group, or on mumsnet. Anything like that, more than once.

Point being, if her behaviour was so reasonable and justified, then noone would be cross to have it be shared publicly, right? You’ve sort of got her over a barrel. It’s the only thing that has worked on two toxic members of my family. They HATE thinking their foul rants would be public- they prize their reputation among strangers far more than with us! It’s been quite magical to watch them curb their excesses.

Boundaries need to be put in place, if she can’t or won’t, or if DH can’t or won’t, then you’ll have to. Frankly, I’d be sending and resending a couple of key screenshots of her rant every time there was any attempt at guilt-tripping. Every time, with no comment. These tech issues can be annoying, right?

Honestly, I have little respect for people who kowtow to this sort of behaviour. If you accept it then on your own head and the head of your children be it.

People like your MIL get away with and continue to behave the way they do because the rest of the family ALLOW it.

Stop allowing it.

It sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders OP. If it were me and she calls again, I would be very tempted to say quite bluntly that you're upset with her behaviour and the things she said - and have my phone on hand to read out to her what she had written asking her "you think that's about acceptable way to speak to someone?". Something needs to be said to at least give her the opportunity to apologise, its clear she won't do that being left to her own devices and not addressing her behaviour. It's awkward, but I've had to do this with my own in-laws to be and it actually went down fairly well (I was very calm and explained my issues clearly). Her response to a conversation about her behaviour would then decide whether or not a visit would happen and if the kids would be exposed to her. It's all very sad and I do feel for you.

You’re going about this the right way op. Drop the rope, disengage. As you’ve said, it’s not as easy for your DH, it’s a lifetime of this uncertainty and egg shell walking and, let’s face it, it’s worked for her up to now. Everyone is tip toeing. She gets her needs met. Your DH will come to a point one day where he will drop the rope, because he can see it’s terrible behaviour from her. He sees it, he just needs time, the poor guy.
Your kids will be fine as they have distance from it and you seem a very sensible mother who will be teaching them that bad behaviour is bad behaviour. Once they witness it they’ll see it for what it is.
It may have damaged your husbands headspace but your kids are separated generationally from her and you and your DH are aware it’s wrong. Limit contact and support your husband in breaking away in a way that’s comfortable for him.

Personally, I’d leave the chat group and let DH deal with her unless she apologises for her behaviour ( she won’t )

That's what I would do also. What a horrible woman. I'm not sure I would even be up for visiting someone so obnoxious - can you stay somewhere else if you have to go to DH's home country and let him and the DC visit alone? Life is too short to put up with this sort of rubbish.

@MacCoffee

Honestly, I have little respect for people who kowtow to this sort of behaviour. If you accept it then on your own head and the head of your children be it.

People like your MIL get away with and continue to behave the way they do because the rest of the family ALLOW it.

Stop allowing it.

This.

My bil thought he could publicly humiliate me last year on my own sm page using his dw's account.
I didn't reply, I blocked him immediately and told dh I would have no further contact.
Dh sends a card at birthday and Christmas. Dh knows they are never welcome in our home again and any contact he wants will not involve me.

I think unless anyone has been subjected to this sort of verbal assault they cannot understand how it almost feels like a physical attack.
I was incredibly upset at the time.
My dh will never fully understand how what he sees as just one nasty message caused my strong response. I explained that this was obviously how bil had felt for years. I don't need to have a relationship with bil so i don't.
Life is too short for unnecessary drama.

Come and join the "we took you to stately homes" thread in relationships.

We have some experience in people like your MIL. Xx

Your kids will be fine as they have distance from it and you seem a very sensible mother who will be teaching them that bad behaviour is bad behaviour. Once they witness it they’ll see it for what it is.
It may have damaged your husbands headspace but your kids are separated generationally from her and you and your DH are aware it’s wrong. Limit contact and support your husband in breaking away in a way that’s comfortable for him.

I disagree. Your DC are exposed to this directly and indirectly. Indirectly by your DH emotional injury, shame and deficits that he carries with him from childhood and is still happens to him in adulthood. They will be sending and absorbing and internalising his pain, hurt, anger (and yours) and it will leave them confused, unsettled and distressed and they will likely develop their own anxieties. They will not see it for what it is because the adults around the dysfunctional MIL are colluding and accepting of the bad behaviour. She is also very present in their lives by phone / FaceTime etc and by the negative impact she is having on you as a couple and consequently as a family.

She will never change, neither will the siblings. You need to protect your DCs. Go v low contact - do not expose them to her or your DH emotional distress. He needs to get some professional help for his own DCs even if he can’t do it for himself.

Agree with other PP - keep gently exposing / sharing the secrets and lies - sunlight is the best disinfectant - your DH needs to know it’s not his shame and it’s not normal. Don’t let this pollute your marriage, family and children. Get it out in the open.

sensing and absorbing - not “sending”

I hope you have the courage to protect your DC from the madness.

It could be you still plan a visit but the first sign of nasty to anyone you turn around and leave. Anything else is insanity.

If I could woken up I'd be so pissed off but accept it was my fault for leave my phone not in complete silent mode!!!!

I once got a text from Great Wall of China at 2am or something did I rant at my friend, er no.

@CrazyNeighbour

I also think a short sharp very blunt conversation is appropriate. I would also think about staying close by but in a hotel. So that you have an immediate escape route.

How good are you generally with difficult people?

I would say I have a very long fuse but I have no problem with confrontation, lots of practice working in a male oriented industry.

I have a sister who is like this. It doesn't matter what you say to your MIL, she will never apologise, because in her warped mind she believes she is right. You can't reason with someone who is so disordered.

In my case, after decades of nonsense, I have gone NC. The relief is immense.

I don't think you can do that with MIL, so I would suggest going very low contact, and absolutely no more visits to their home.

I grew up in an environment where there were lots of arguments. My sister is repeating the cycle. I refuse to. I want a life of peace.

My point being, that every time you take your DC to see MIL, they witness what is happening. It's extremely damaging.

WTAF are you even considering/talking about the next time your family all visit??

There would NOT be another Family Visit if it were me (and it was, slightly different of course), like hell would I be going to visit her & nor would my children and honestly, if I was in that position again nor would DH. Not after that bile. It was a large part of why he's now an Ex. When they died (ex inlaws) I felt nothing but relief and I get upset very very easily normally.

When things are a little less 'raw' have a really good think about what you want going forward. She might be his mother, but that doesn't mean you have to put up with anything she throws at you.

Take care 💐

@leftout1

My point being, that every time you take your DC to see MIL, they witness what is happening. It's extremely damaging.

The DCs also witness and feel what is happening when their own parents are distressed and preoccupied with hurt and anger in their own home by texts coming through. Don’t underestimate how much damage this is doing to you all.