Angry MIL - Time difference

[tellmetellmepleasetellme]

Name changed for this. We live in a country which is 6 hours ahead of DH’s home country. Last week it was MIL’s birthday. Both she and FIL had been suffering from Covid and we had been in daily contact through a family Whatsapp group and FaceTime to check in on them.

Not thinking we both sent a message into the family chat when we got to the office (which was about 3 am their time) to wish her a HBD and a few pictures of the kids. She messaged back to say she was sleeping and not to send any more messages. We both stopped and agreed when it was their morning we would send a message and apologise.

Then came message after message, a tirade of abuse from her about how selfish we are as people and we don’t care about her and had planned this to deliberately ruin her birthday, knowing full well she was ill. Multiple messages which escalated to accusations of how we are takers and have never given anything to the PILs or DH’s siblings (not true). She was clearly awake by this time so we both sent a message to say we were truly sorry and we were not thinking about the time difference. More abuse followed in numerous messages, each one more personal, sweary and hate filled.

Later in the day we got one more message to tell us what terrible people we were and that she was angry we had asked her what she had wanted for her bday when we spoke weeks earlier and she asked if it was to taunt her as we never send anything (which we had but it obviously just didn’t arrive in time).

We did not respond at all other than the one message each to apologise . It felt like she was trying to inflate our crime to fit her punishment in front of her audience (FIL and DH’s siblings). That evening we sent her a video of the kids wishing her a HBD.

A few days past and the package with her present arrived (we sent by post from our country of residence 2 weeks prior) and we got a message from her to say she was still ill but starting to feel better and thank you for the presents and it was as if none of this episode had taken place. DH just replied to say glad to hear you are starting to feel better. This was 4-5 days ago now.

We are fully aware we were wrong to send the messages at a time when they could have disturbed her. I felt so bad initially that I may have done this without thinking regularly and it was a build up of anger (given the intensity of her rage) so I looked back through the family chat and most of our messages going to them had been during their day time. MIL and the siblings’ messages on other hand had been regularly in the middle of our night time 11 pm -5 am, but we put our phones on silent mode so do not get woken up or we just ignore it if we hear the phone.

For full disclosure she has form for this. The whole family walk on eggshells to avoid setting her off. It’s the most awful family dynamics when we visit. At least every second visit she would find a reason to be upset with us and she would tell us to leave her home (24 hours trip door to door, to get there, 2 kids in tow) and then cry and wail when we start to pack about us taking the kids away from her. Then the others all beg us not to go. It’s becoming a ritual. I really cannot put in one OP how much of this same old tired act she has pulled over the last 2 decades.

We are hurt and angry at how vicious and personal she got. I can understand she was ill and needed to rest. It was a genuine mistake and we had apologised unreservedly. AIBU to not be able to move on until, for just this one time, she apologises? Just even an ounce of acknowledgment of how terrible her behaviour was in this instance (let alone all the other times). DH and I are unified in our approach towards the situation right now but I know from bitter experience how far her pattern of behaviours is ingrained into her children. Sooner or later they all go back to her hostage style for more of the same cycle of abuse.

I’m just really struggling to let it go and I don’t want to pretend nothing happened and that we are one happy family to keep the peace and enable her disgusting behaviour. I do feel bad as the kids are young and there is no way for them to have contact unless it's through one of us. So by going no contact we are also in effect withholding contact between PILs and our kids. Any advice?

I was also going to add that the more you let her behave like this, the more she will take. If you let her continue to attack you by message, she will think there's no comeback for doing so.
Presumably you repaired the bridges after the throwing out events, unfortunately I think it is reaching a point where you have to stand up to her and take the consequences good or bad or she will just get worse.

She sounds like an unhinged bully. When you mentioned his face after the last episode, it sounded so sad. How could someone inflict this on their children, over nothing.
Maybe he needs to have someone professional to talk to about how to cope with this. I hope you find a solution.

Unfortuately there is not much you can do - DH has to tackle this. We have all sent messages at the wrong times to international friends (or called). Happens to me regularly. I set my phone on silent so if someone makes a mistake I dont hear it, but even if they do manage to wake me, I wouldnt get upset. The whole walking on eggshells thing needs to stop, or she will never change. I would not be willing to take my children 24 hours away in order for them to witness us being turned out of the house. The damage to them, and to seeing you then seem to ignore that, is immeasurable. Your DH is right, you may be able to do more things or stay for longer if you dont rent separate accommodation, but you will also be abused and putting up with unreasonable behaviour. So, shorter breaks it is, I think. She is not going to change.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff
@diddl

Yes. I am very concerned about the effect on the children. Last time this happened they were very small and not present but I am under no delusion that she will spare them. Her wrath is uncontrollable when she is in an what can only be called an 'episode'.

Maybe, it's the realisation that the children could see/hear/feel this that will open his eyes to reality.

@Babygotblueyes

I think your advice is a great way to approach this in my discussion with DH. We must reach a compromise and the children's happiness and safety must come first.

I would take a screen shot of the really vile things she sent to me and send it back to her without comment. If she enlists other family members in getting you back "in the fold" then I would send them copies of her rants. It's like filming a "falling down drunk" and showing him the film when sober -- make her face her words.

She sounds like a vicious old witch and I send her a message to say hope she has recovered from covid and enjoyed her birthday and that This would be the last communication you'd ever be having with her

(By not confronting her and dealing with her behaviour long before now you have enabled her and allowed her to think this behaviour is acceptable)

@pointythings

She's an adult and presumably knows how her phone works - if she didn't want to be disturbed, she should put it on silent. My phone is off overnight unless I know something is up and I'm likely to be needed, in which case I leave it on and sound on. My friends and family know this is how I work. She could do the same so easily.

Don't stay with her again and disengage from her bullshit.

Agreed

I actually think you should encourage your DH to have counselling about this and get some impartial advice. You are exposing your children to some very damaging messages when you're there. Your MIL is only going to get older and more frail, so the guilt will increase: but I think at a minimum you can't let this go.

What would happen if you sent a message to her saying you had been reflecting on the messages she sent, you both feel they were uncalled for and incredibly hurtful and you would like an apology. Would she yell? would she go silent? Would she get other family members to intervene?

In my experience, people like this are masters at knowing how interpersonal relationships work. If you are capable of drawing a line in the sand that says 'Behaviour like x, we walk away and stay in a hotel. Behaviour like y, we hang up the phone/ask for an apology' they will know if you mean it. So you BOTH have to mean it, and stick to it.

I put up with a certain type of behaviour from a family members of DHs as if I didn't he'd never see a member of his family he wants to. But when it crossed the line, as it once did, he sat them down and balled them out in a calm but entirely serious way. These are people whose main mode of control is to throw tantrums and go no contact (not with us prior to this occasion, but with several others). Relations cooled for about six months, but I think they know now: we tolerate certain behaviour (in group situations, very occasionally), but there's a very firm line and if they cross it, we'll be the ones to walk away.

That's the place you need to get to with your DH.

If she was ill and needed to sleep why didn’t she switch her phone off?
If anyone had spoken to me in this way I would have told them to F off and they would be deleted.

She can put her phone on silent like most people do. The fact that she sends messages to you during your night speaks volumes.

You have my sympathies OP. My MIL is the same and it is very draining. Always getting upset about nonsense. I used to apologise to keep the peace but my father told me that you should never apologise to a bully so I stopped doing that and stepped back from her. I never engage with her directly, send pictures etc anymore. I leave it all to my husband. We are going to visit soon and I am dreading it. It is difficult to know what to do because it is not good to teach your children that you should pander to bullies as how can they then defend themselves, if they meet one in life? It is your husbands mother though which makes it all so complicated. I don't really have advice as I don't think I deal with mine very well.

You (you & DH) can confront it but you will NOT get an apology and you could make things much worse. (Bitter experience here).

You cannot change her behaviour but you can change how you respond to it.

Definitely do not stay there ever again. By agreeing to stay there you are agreeing to be trapped there until she throws you out. If they ask why answer honestly that you do not wish for your children to witness conflict.

Definitely leave the group and leave all responsibility for communicating to DH.

Photos, calls etc can be used to reward her respecting your boundaries, and withdrawn to 'punish' bad behaviour.

But in terms of face to face contact your children will not be missing out on anything and your job here is to protect them from toxicity.

IME we did have a few years where staying in a hotel worked (after a bullying episode in their home). Sadly F deteriorated further, there was a bullying episode in our home, and we are now NC. Initially I felt terrible but the truth is you want your children to have a lovely relationship with their lovely grandparents. Sometimes you have to wake up and realise that is not the reality and never will be.

Likewise your DH needs to let go of the hope that things will change and he will feel validated.

Sorry 💐

@namechangemarch21

I actually think you should encourage your DH to have counselling about this and get some impartial advice. You are exposing your children to some very damaging messages when you're there. Your MIL is only going to get older and more frail, so the guilt will increase: but I think at a minimum you can't let this go.

What would happen if you sent a message to her saying you had been reflecting on the messages she sent, you both feel they were uncalled for and incredibly hurtful and you would like an apology. Would she yell? would she go silent? Would she get other family members to intervene?

In my experience, people like this are masters at knowing how interpersonal relationships work. If you are capable of drawing a line in the sand that says 'Behaviour like x, we walk away and stay in a hotel. Behaviour like y, we hang up the phone/ask for an apology' they will know if you mean it. So you BOTH have to mean it, and stick to it.

I put up with a certain type of behaviour from a family members of DHs as if I didn't he'd never see a member of his family he wants to. But when it crossed the line, as it once did, he sat them down and balled them out in a calm but entirely serious way. These are people whose main mode of control is to throw tantrums and go no contact (not with us prior to this occasion, but with several others). Relations cooled for about six months, but I think they know now: we tolerate certain behaviour (in group situations, very occasionally), but there's a very firm line and if they cross it, we'll be the ones to walk away.

That's the place you need to get to with your DH.

Yell and cry for sure. Other members of the family tend to 'freeze' when this is happening to another person and that is what has happened here.

Yes, I would like to get to that place where there is at least some respect/boundaries. We have a lot of work to do. I love FIL and the siblings and MIL can be pleasant a lot of the time too, but it is like standing in a land mine and a bomb can just go off at anytime.

Thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it.

@ConfusedAdultFemale

Letting it all go and pretending nothing happened? Fuck that, it’d be a message with a few home truths then blocking her if it were me. That’s emotional abuse through and through, I’d never have DC around people like that.

Same here. What a nasty, selfish woman

Cut her off. Why let it go? Why set yourselves up to continue being treated like that. Just tell her the home truths and block her. She is so ungrateful.

I'd never stay in her house again. Can't you stay with other family members instead?
She is vile. My MIL used to try shit, thank god with had no mobile phones when we first married.
Sadly for her she raised her kids who were just as strong willed as her and only one was even speaking to her when she died. We hadn't seen her in over 20 years.

Wow. You're describing my DM! Growing up with a volatile parent is very difficult but you're right, it does make you numb to their behaviour. My DM never apologises for her behaviour but since we have all moved out she has less opportunities and is aware that we have more power as we no longer live with her. It's very difficult as a child of an abusive parent because you know that they love you, but that they're mentally troubled. My DM had a difficult childhood herself and I try to remember that whenever she goes into an agressive rage. However, I have a 6MO DS now, and I've made it clear that if she ever has an episode in front of my DS that it is the end of our relationship. It was a very short and awkward conversation after she asked whether I would be telling DS about her past behaviour. I won't be sharing her past behaviour with DS and I will provide a clean slate for their relationship. I hope that if it came to it, your DH would put your DC ahead of his relationship with his DM.

If I were you I'd block her and tell DH to deal with her. He does all messages, parcels, cards, arrangements from now on.

Oh, and I manage the relationship with my DM. I keep DH away from her as much as possible. Can you stay with anyone else in your DH's home country when you visit? Maybe a sibling? That way you have more control over how long you're exposed to her behaviour.

@tellmetellmepleasetellme

I didn't express this properly, I meant
When you mentioned his face (your DH) after the last episode, it sounded so sad. How could someone (MIL) inflict this on their children (ie Your DH her child) over nothing

I think you should tell your MIL about this and how very hurt he was.

She has anger management issues for sure but it sounds like she is not being called out about her behaviour

I agree with pp. I would leave the chat, don’t reward her shitty behaviour.

I can’t believe you sent her a video from the kids later that day after all that abuse! That’s madness.

If you take the plunge by cutting contact it might just be the push DH needs to put boundaries in place.

And i wouldn't be visiting either. DH can if he wants.

You can see she has a hold on them, but you’re not seeing that you’re in thrall to her too. Cut loose.

I second the poster saying your DH might really benefit from talking to someone about this. Dysfunctional families really damage you and it's hard to break patterns you've followed for years.
I don't think you can change her but you can change your behaviour and exposure to her. You're right about protecting your own children from this.
I am LC with my own Dad due to his behaviour over a very long period of time. Realising that there was nothing I could do to change him but I didn't have to be part of the drama any more. Every now and again he throws a hissy fit because I am not compliant and I just grey rock until it passes.

@Redjumper1

She can put her phone on silent like most people do. The fact that she sends messages to you during your night speaks volumes.

You have my sympathies OP. My MIL is the same and it is very draining. Always getting upset about nonsense. I used to apologise to keep the peace but my father told me that you should never apologise to a bully so I stopped doing that and stepped back from her. I never engage with her directly, send pictures etc anymore. I leave it all to my husband. We are going to visit soon and I am dreading it. It is difficult to know what to do because it is not good to teach your children that you should pander to bullies as how can they then defend themselves, if they meet one in life? It is your husbands mother though which makes it all so complicated. I don't really have advice as I don't think I deal with mine very well.

Sorry you're going through the same thing. It really is crap and feels like an ever present bleak, black hole.

How does your DH handle the situation, if you don't mind sharing.

OP, you can't win in this scenario. If you give her a bollocking and ask for an apology, she will play the victim in a massive way. I echo PP that it's his family and he can sort it. She sounds like an absolute nightmare.

And in terms of the message, it is 100% her personal responsibility (same with all of us) that if you don't want to be wakened by calls and texts, you pop your phone on silent before going to sleep.

@GreyEyedWitch

Wow. You're describing my DM! Growing up with a volatile parent is very difficult but you're right, it does make you numb to their behaviour. My DM never apologises for her behaviour but since we have all moved out she has less opportunities and is aware that we have more power as we no longer live with her. It's very difficult as a child of an abusive parent because you know that they love you, but that they're mentally troubled. My DM had a difficult childhood herself and I try to remember that whenever she goes into an agressive rage. However, I have a 6MO DS now, and I've made it clear that if she ever has an episode in front of my DS that it is the end of our relationship. It was a very short and awkward conversation after she asked whether I would be telling DS about her past behaviour. I won't be sharing her past behaviour with DS and I will provide a clean slate for their relationship. I hope that if it came to it, your DH would put your DC ahead of his relationship with his DM.

Sorry to hear your experience. I am upset and annoyed with it but I have enough emotional and physical distance to not feel devastated like DH.

We recognise she is unwell. The trouble is she doesn't and most likely never will so there is no hope.

Congratulations on your LO.

I had a MIL like this. We ended up going NC because of it for 6 months, we were then talked into brushing it all under the carpet. Lo and behold, she behaved for a few months, but then back to square one. We again went NC, this time for 3 years, at which point we were begged to start the relationship again. I was finally persuaded, but under the condition that the problems were openly discussed first. We made it clear at this point what we were unhappy about, and that if it happened again, it would be the last time. Thankfully she learned her lesson, and so when she died a few years later, she had all her family around her, and during the later years, she and I became good friends. I think you MUST stand up for yourselves, and bearing in mind how far you have to travel, I would definitely never stay there again, but be clear about what is acceptable and what isn't, and stick to it. At the time, we too had a young child, which is why we agreed to get together after the first period of NC, but after that, no way was I prepared to expose my daughter to her behaviour, and because we stuck to our guns, she knew it. Time for your DH to 'grow a pair' as the expression goes.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

I was also going to add that the more you let her behave like this, the more she will take. If you let her continue to attack you by message, she will think there's no comeback for doing so. Presumably you repaired the bridges after the throwing out events, unfortunately I think it is reaching a point where you have to stand up to her and take the consequences good or bad or she will just get worse.

She sounds like an unhinged bully. When you mentioned his face after the last episode, it sounded so sad. How could someone inflict this on their children, over nothing.
Maybe he needs to have someone professional to talk to about how to cope with this. I hope you find a solution.

Great post Support DH to understand this us not normal . Would he consider counselling?