Live lesson - so naughty!

[Cocopogo]

My DD is isolating I just sat in on a lesson and the kids are so naughty and the teacher has no control. She’s just yelling, sit down, be quiet, shhhhh all the way through. How can anyone learn in this madness? Poor teacher and poor DC who want to learn. Joys of bottom set I guess.

It’s the same in top set, not sure what’s happened to behaviour over these past few years but the difference in behaviour in class between eldest DC’s classes and youngest is astounding. It’s as if there’s been a gradual decline.

Behaviour has been impacted by lockdown, isolation from peers and generally having needs of children and young people dismissed for most of the year. No idea how to repair the damage done by this experiment on our young.

Keeping children on task is hard enough in a classroom but when the children are in their own homes - and the multitude of distractions they provide - it's even harder. Especially as they get older and they know the teacher has no way to provide a consequence to them

I presume the OP means that her daughter is the only one (or one of few) at home, connecting by video to a classroom lesson for everyone else.

Yes that’s right. DD was only one at home in this particular lesson.

I assume it's a state school? Unfortunately the description you give is pretty typical. Teachers have no power and the children know it - there is no punishment the teacher can give that the children fear.

It’s the same in top set, not sure what’s happened to behaviour over these past few years

One word - PARENTING

@GiveMeNovocain

Behaviour has been impacted by lockdown, isolation from peers and generally having needs of children and young people dismissed for most of the year. No idea how to repair the damage done by this experiment on our young.

You are joking I assume. Do parents not have any responsibility nowadays to ensure their children know how to behave appropriately?

Sadly behaviour in lower sets is often way more challenging than the higher sets, so it’s a viscous circle.

Is it a new teacher?

Lockdown has had a massive detrimental impact in behaviour. Year 8 seem to be the worst affected, but others are not far behind. It is not fun for the well-behaved students who want to learn or the teachers, who have to constantly battle against bad behaviour...

Sorry but I'm 32 and this scenario was pretty normal when I was growing up. Particularly bad from year 8 upwards and especially if it was a supply teacher. This isn't a new thing and certainly not because of the pandemic!

Lockdown can't be blamed for everything. Unless you are saying parents can't control their children and just let the teachers do the parenting (unfortunately some parents do feel like this).
Surely behaviour at home should be acceptable and if it is then lockdown will have had no effect on behaviour.

Its called shit parenting, and its what the majority of parents do. Oh no, couldn't possibly teach MY child to be quiet and do what they are told. No, MY child is so clever and important and should be the centre of EVERYONE's world.

I would just say I have taught in London state schools and no, not typical. It sounds like a teacher struggling who needs support to learn behaviour management. And it can be learned. It is a sign that the teacher needs back up as well from the school's structures - sign of a behaviour policy that doesn't work or isn't clear or effective enough.

I left a long career in teaching shortly before the pandemic because behaviour was constantly and dramatically declining. My kids will not be going to state secondary because the ones I worked in (Ofsted Good and Outstanding!) were unsafe for staff and students. The fashion for behaviour policies in secondary has been to a shockingly detrimental approach whereby students are taken off for nice chats and a cup of hot chocolate and told that the problem is their teachers just don’t understand them and therefore how could said student stop themselves from punching staff/other kids in the face or swearing at everyone or refusing to work or throwing chairs or lying down in doorways...all completely standard occurrences. I have no doubt that a lot of these students did need extra support and understanding, but in classes of 35+ how are they going to get it? School felt volatile and frightening and I felt increasingly powerless to help any of them and increasingly frustrated and angry on behalf of the kids who desperately wanted to learn and be safe. Their needs were never taken into account.

Having taught in numerous schools in England and abroad there is a huge gulf in the behaviour due to parental expectations. Every parent will back their child of course but it’s sickening to see when parents will invariably support their child when the evidence suggests otherwise.

Parenting at home isn't effective. Too many kids think they are entitled to behave as they like with no consequences or boundaries.

Absolutely why mine go private. I have sat and watched so many of the live lessons and there is impeccable behaviour and manners. I remember one boy kept switching his camera off and on at the start of lockdown...the next lesson there on screen was him and a very pissed off looking parent who had been told by the school that they had to take days off work to sit with their child during the lesson as he couldn’t behaved. The kid behaved from that day on. Sadly, when you pay for an education you value it more and you make damn sure your child is making the most of it.

@SoSadAboutMyDad

Absolutely why mine go private. I have sat and watched so many of the live lessons and there is impeccable behaviour and manners. I remember one boy kept switching his camera off and on at the start of lockdown...the next lesson there on screen was him and a very pissed off looking parent who had been told by the school that they had to take days off work to sit with their child during the lesson as he couldn’t behaved. The kid behaved from that day on. Sadly, when you pay for an education you value it more and you make damn sure your child is making the most of it.

I think you meant to say "I believe that when you pay for an education....bla bla bla".

I value my son's (State) education very much.

YANBU to be concerned at the students' behaviour.
YABU to blame it on bottom sets. I love teaching bottom sets and the sooner people (staff and parents) stop viewing bottom sets as a terrible option or making value judgements about the students in them, the better in my opinion. Students in bottom sets aren't inherently badly behaved. Bottom sets are complex to teach because you will typically have:

• students who struggle with a subject
• students who have historic low attainment
• students with SEN and historic low attainment
• bright students who have been badly behaved, their progress has declined and they have ended up in a set below their capability. With focused teaching and parental support they can, and do, move up.
• students who are badly behaved and have been empowered by parents who think the sun shines out their child. These are the students who can cause havoc in a bottom set, especially if the school has weak leadership.

If behaviour is that bad in the teacher's lesson then their Head of Department and/or Senior Leadership are letting the teacher down, and I I question the whole school behaviour leadership.

Both my kids went to Grammar Schools, and I can assure you they behaved in class and if they didn’t you were called into school. My son tried it on in his 1st year, 1 appointment with me and head of year soon got him back on track.
The pupils respect the teachers and are told how lucky they are to get such a great education in a very unfair world, that it’s their duty to take advantage and improve opportunities for all.

Yep normal i remember our form tutor regularly being in tears and im 40

I think that most schools have done a fabulous job in being more inclusive of children that in the past would have been very much left out of mainstream education. Children are taught that some children need extra tools and support for their learning.

Sometimes though, bad behaviour really is just as it is, and needs to be called out. Ive had colleagues in tears because parents have been so awful to them. Purely because the teacher has had to take away a childs breaktime for aggressive behaviour.

@BobinRobin

It’s the same in top set, not sure what’s happened to behaviour over these past few years

One word - PARENTING

I agree. Worked in school for 18 years. Behaviour has declined significantly and colleagues from other schools tell the same stories. And no, it's not just Covid... it's been noticeable for quite a while before that.

1Morewineplease
Parenting and inconsistencies in school leadership.

Permissive parenting combined with wooly, ineffective school leaders creates a perfect storm. The people who suffer are the class teachers and the children who want to learn.