Live lesson - so naughty!

[Cocopogo]

My DD is isolating I just sat in on a lesson and the kids are so naughty and the teacher has no control. She’s just yelling, sit down, be quiet, shhhhh all the way through. How can anyone learn in this madness? Poor teacher and poor DC who want to learn. Joys of bottom set I guess.

Oh and also, at the school I work in I partly blame UNICEFS ‘rights respecting schools’. All our current year 8s seem to have taken from it is ‘you can’t tell me not to talk, it’s one of my rights’.

My year 10 tells me that there is absolutely no poor behaviour in any of her classes - state secondary. I think there was low level arsing about in year 7 & 8 but since year 9 they crack on and get on with it, my eldest said exactly the same,

@Myglassishalfempty

Sorry but I'm 32 and this scenario was pretty normal when I was growing up. Particularly bad from year 8 upwards and especially if it was a supply teacher. This isn't a new thing and certainly not because of the pandemic!

Was about to say this!

The fact that too many exclusions can trigger Ofsted and too much proof for the reason of removal is needed (leading to at least 6 weeks' worth of evidence being collected before anything actually happens - i.e. half a term of misbehaviour), the financial burden any exclusion places on schools, where each managed move costs upwards of £6000 in times where cash-stapped schools really can't afford this and, of course, the lack of money for specialist support, PRUs and special schools and of course you have a perfect storm in the making.

I disagree. I really don't think exclusions actually manage behaviour, just leave students abandoned and vulnerable/ move the the problems on to somewhere else. Without controls preventing high levels of exclusions, children with SEN or from minority or disadvantaged backgrounds will continue to be disproportionately affected. IMO exclusions should be a last resort.

@LadyOfLittleLeisure What's the alternative? Disrupted and abusive classrooms?

A wholesale society change is required. Funding is needed and more AP for students who find mainstream not suitable.

Our school does monthly ‘managed transfers’ so they don’t have to exclude. The never work out, the other school often rejects our kids within 2 days and back to square one.

This has been getting worse as so many parents just can't parent often they entirely side with their kids. There is too much pandering an political correctness (o think of the poor darlings mental health before we discipline him and what will their parents say). When I was young and I did wrong and it was noted in the diary, I would get additional re enforcement punishment at home. Once I left the oiks behind and went to grammar school behaviour massively improved in the class.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation well I agree a whole transformation of education is needed but not making exclusions easier. One thing that could be changed is to stop forcing all students down a narrow academic path regardless of their abilities and inclinations. When I was teaching in mainstream almost every student without exception was forced to take EBacc subjects. Some just weren't able to perform in these traditionally academic subjects and would just perpetually feel like failures or stupid. They then (quite logically really) thought 'well what is the point?' and behaved however they wanted. I can't actually imagine how crap it would be to be 15 and shuffling from one lesson you felt you were shit at to the next all day every day. So for me, I think expanding apprenticeships and having a whole range of subjects and vocations available earlier would be a good start.

@Onceuponatime1818

Our school does monthly ‘managed transfers’ so they don’t have to exclude. The never work out, the other school often rejects our kids within 2 days and back to square one.

Well exactly. Snowflake or whatever I may be but I feel so sorry for the kids getting passed around and 'rejected' from schools.

Exclusions are really hard to achieve now though. To the detriment of the 29 other students who get constant disruption. There comes a point where the needs of the majority should come first.

but I feel so sorry for the kids getting passed around and 'rejected' from schools.

I also feel sorry for the victims who have to stay in the classrooms with their abusers.

It's not all linked to which set they are in though.

DD at state academy known for its excellent classroom discipline. She is bottom set for every class. The children are trained from Y7 that no classroom disruption will be tolerated and any child who plays up is taken out quietly to isolation by a second member of staff who is summoned by the class teacher. They also have a policy of not moving kids down a set if they can't behave in the classroom. They set for ability and never for behaviour unlike the primary school my kids went to which would immediately put a lazy or badly behaved bright child into a lower set to keep the top set focused on the 11 plus prep.

DS is at a highly regarded grammar school in top set for core subjects. He frequently moans that he can't concentrate in class because of the chatter and disruption. You wouldn't believe the stuff I've been hearing from him this week. Drug dealing in the toilets is the latest thing. That couldn't happen at DDs school as no one would dare due to the random searches they carry out every day.

@Babymeanswashing

It isn’t typical in my experience.

Not in mine either. My kids are at a great school, behaviour standards are high, teachers don't put up with any shit and children who are disruptive are removed. Most kids are there to learn, and motivated to learn.

Well exactly. Snowflake or whatever I may be but I feel so sorry for the kids getting passed around and 'rejected' from schools.
You're not a snowflake at all. Some schools have no intention of giving the transfered student a fair shot.

I agree with you Chloe, but I also think the more these students are passed from school to school, the more children have their education disrupted. The managed move system is frequently a joke that doesn't help anyone.

@skirk64

I assume it's a state school? Unfortunately the description you give is pretty typical. Teachers have no power and the children know it - there is no punishment the teacher can give that the children fear.

My kids are in state school, that's not my experience at all. Teachers don't put up with bad behaviour and disruption.

Did you not read the thread on here where a poster was berated for being too harsh with her 15 year old wh9 had told her to pass off? Many seemed to think that no punishment was needed, and it was only a word. Multiply that by 30 and add in peer pressure and It explained a lot.

One word - PARENTING

Surely it's two words? "Inadequate parenting"