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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU in wanting to move my family back to NZ?

87 replies

MissDolittle15 · 22/05/2021 20:47

The move will leave my MIL absolutely devastated. I have name changed for this very indulgent post.

My mother in law is a kind and generous woman. She was a selfless mother and did everything for her two (now adult) sons and husband; the latter of whom repaid her by having an affair with a colleague and marrying her. This was two decades ago now but it clearly shattered her life and she has never really moved on. She has had a few relationships since then but not of the serious, co-habiting, life-sharing sort. She is still friendly with her ex husband and he is included in some family events while his wife is treated like the devil incarnate and excluded from family events (this is increasingly difficult as step-MIL has always been lovely and kind to me and my DD). This was the status quo before I came on the scene and I feel I have been very much expected to fall in line with this dynamic of excluding DH's step mother from events to protect MIL's feelings. I am including this context so that you will see how complex my feelings towards my MIL are.

My husband and BIL have a lot of time for their mother (go on holidays with her by themselves, that sort of thing). They spend every family holiday with her so she is never left alone, which has come to mean excluding their father from every Christmas and birthday celebrations have to be duplicated. I have always been very much welcomed and included in these Christmases and other events that are run on her terms, but I am finding it very difficult to make space for my family of origin in this very needy and controlling dynamic. We have spent one Christmas with my family in 13 years and at the time were made to feel very guilty about it, so much so, that we never did it again. We have always spent Christmas with MIL as a duo, or I have attended my family's Christmas alone without DH. Now that we have a DD, this dynamic obviously cannot continue and I feel stupid and resentful for having gone so many years pandering to this expectation to keep the peace.

There is more to this. I'm from another country and upon intially hearing of our relationship she said 'Well she better not take my son away to NZ' This anecdote was relayed to me by another family member as if it was a joke. At the time, I remember it feeling as if my relationship with her son was disapproved of already and I hadn't even met her yet. It definitely set off alarm bells within me at some level and I feel that the potential for me to 'take her son away' has been an underlying tension ever since. She has several times bailed me up without my husband present, teary-eyed, asking me where I intended to settle. The point of these conversations was clearly 'you will destroy my life if you move away with my son'. Similarly, I have had my brother in law and a niece of hers say the same without my husband present, ie, my mother in law is terrified that we will leave. I just find it so odd that this family all subscribe to this brand of guilt tripping and uphold MIL's belief that our lives and special occasions should always involve her to the exclusion of every other grandparent or family member. It is so incredibly unpleasant and unreasonable. BIL (mid 30s) has never had a serious relationship and I think just has not had to deal with the reality of balancing two families, but that doesn't stop him sticking his oar in and making me feel like crap.

It has been 10 years since we moved to DH's country and we still live in the same city as my mother in law. We were due to move back to my country last year, coinciding with the birth of our first baby, but this plan was scuppered by coronavirus border closures. None of my family have been able to visit me or meet my baby due to border closures and I am (quietly) utterly, utterly heartbroken about our plans being delayed and my maternity leave passing by without being allowed to see family. The arrival of the baby has made my mother in law fixate on us even more. I take the baby over to see her once a week while my husband is at work (I try to be inclusive and decent). It is never enough. When we say no to something, she responds by being passive aggressive, or relentlessly pushing her agenda. For instance, at the moment, she is constantly on at us about buying a house because she wants us financially locked-in so that we have to live here longer.

I feel like I have spent 10 years dancing around this woman, trying to be kind and inclusive and trying to convince her that she will always be welcome in our lives, wherever we live, but that doesn't seem to be enough. We have to live life on her terms or suffer endless guilt trips and passive aggression. I feel so depressed by this given that I really have tried to be a decent person over the course of many years, but I really will not short-change my DD by having her grow up somewhere that I believe has a lower quality of life, and dare I say it, I just want some time with my own family and their support while I am doing the lion's share of raising two kids.

AIBU moving my family back to NZ when I know it will devastate her?

Does anyone have experience of an inlaw that guilt trips in this way? Any advice on how to manage it?

OP posts:
Ughmaybenot · 23/05/2021 07:18

If both you and your husband want to go, go. You must make your own choices. You’ve done your time in his home country, and you’ve missed your own/your family throughout.

cheeseismydownfall · 23/05/2021 07:42

What country are you in currently, OP? Are you in the UK?

Notwithstanding the dynamic with your MIL (which does sound difficult and overly dependant) I don't think there is any way of sugar coating the fact that a move to NZ would be absolutely devastating for her, and understandably so. It would mean she would never have a real relationship with her GC and an enormous loss in terms of her closeness to her son.

Living in Europe, or the Middle East, or North America, when you have family in the UK is really not a big deal - I've lived in all these places and saw my family regularly. But Australia/NZ is a completely different proposition. When I was younger my elder sister looked like she was going to see permanently in Australia and it broke my mother's heart. Now I have children of my own I can understand why, and I would be silently devastated if any of my children meet partners from NZ/Australia.

You know this. You know from how you feel about missing your own family. That isn't to say you shouldn't do what you think is best, but I think it is unfair of you to create a narrative that involves your MIL being controlling and unreasonable. Even the most relaxed, generous-spirited parent in the world would be deeply upset to see their children settling down on the other side of the world.

cheeseismydownfall · 23/05/2021 07:47

She will still have BIL to support her.

Yeah, lucky old BIL Hmm

ittakes2 · 23/05/2021 07:51

This can’t be about your m’n’law. Do you realise you are still making her central to your decisions?
How much time has your hubby spent in nz and could he gets work he would enjoy out there?
I am Australian and before I married my English hubby I had to know he would be happy to live in oz if I wanted to. We are happily settled in the U.K. now but it was important to me it was an option.
Leave your m’n’law out of the equation for a minute and approach this with practical thoughts on how this would all work and does this mean you and your hubby will grow old together in nz as it’s unlikely you’ll uproot your family after they start school or change countries again when they are adults with families.

newnortherner111 · 23/05/2021 08:00

MIL will not be without family at all if you move.

I'd be gone in a heartbeat if I was you and had the option, though to be honest it would be not because of MIL, but because I would rather live in a country that has Jacinda Ardern as leader than Boris Johnson or any of the UK alternatives.

partyatthepalace · 23/05/2021 08:40

It sounds you are going though, and your plans were just delayed? But I presume she hasn’t been told about this yet - is that it?

Sounds totally sensible move. It’s sad for her but she also needs to crack on with building her own life up. This dancing around her hasn’t done her any good. Great your DH is supportive. Crack on.

billy1966 · 23/05/2021 08:42

I think she has controlled ye for long enough.

Make your plans completely without discussing it further with her and tell her the leaving date as a done deal.

Your family sounds utterly controlled by this woman.

This is not good but I think it was clear from the start what you were getting into but you chose to ignore it.

Your husband is on board.
Stop being depressed about your situation and start making arrangements to move.

The decision has been made.
Flowers

MissDolittle15 · 23/05/2021 09:01

@ittakes2 Unbelievably, this really is just about my MIL. I actually met DH in NZ so he has spent time out there. He is also supportive of the move and it was always what we planned to do once children came along. Getting work should be fairly simple for both of us and our salaries would be a lot higher. I know it sounds like a no-brainer, but it's just hard to make that decision when someone is telling you that in doing so, you are breaking their heart. She was abandoned by her husband in a very cruel way and I have always seen her neediness as very likely linked to that; she is absolutely terrified of being left behind again.

@MadMadMadamMim I am horrified that my post has come across as slagging her off. I have a lot of time for my MIL and enjoy her company, but I am so intensely frustrated that she has made it so hard for us to spend any time with my family. She seems totally unwilling or unable to see that the family times that are precious to her, are also precious to others. There is just no give and take - ever.

@cheeseismydownfall Yes I know all of this, which is why I am bloody wracked with guilt all the time. Strangely enough, my parents who have lived on the other side of the world without me for 10 years and who have never met their grandchild, never make me feel this way. They feel no less disappointed, but they would just never want their children to feel beholden to them. I don't think it's fair to say that I have 'created a narrative'. By no means am I trying to say that I want to move as a result of my MIL's behaviour. BIL has mentioned that he feels we are being selfish because he wouldn't be able leave the UK and live elsewhere if we go to NZ. He very much feels the same level of guilt we do.

OP posts:
Mosaic123 · 23/05/2021 09:05

Poor BIL to be left with MIL as she ages.

TwoAndAnOnion · 23/05/2021 09:12

Any chance she could relocate to NYZ with you all ?

MissDolittle15 · 23/05/2021 09:18

@partyatthepalace

It sounds you are going though, and your plans were just delayed? But I presume she hasn’t been told about this yet - is that it?

Sounds totally sensible move. It’s sad for her but she also needs to crack on with building her own life up. This dancing around her hasn’t done her any good. Great your DH is supportive. Crack on.

@ that's correct. The decision was made and the plans have just been delayed by COVID for goodness knows how long. She does know this and we have been very clear, but she is pretending like it isn't happening and hence the pressure to buy a house. It's heart-breaking and awful at the same time.

I guess the reason why I posted is because DH is about to submit his papers for his visa and we actually need a copy of her passport as the process requires it. I feel absolutely sick about the potential reaction she will have when it dawns on her that the wheels for this move are in motion.

OP posts:
MissDolittle15 · 23/05/2021 09:36

@TwoAndAnOnion I would actually love it if she relocated with us. She doesn't want to as she has a lot of friends here, which I understand. It would also cause problems with BIL as he would be upset if she went with us and left him behind on his own.

Funnily enough, she actually has a lot of family in NZ as one of her siblings emigrated there in the 80s and had lots of children.

@Mosaic123 As if I didn't already feel guilty enough!

OP posts:
giletrouge · 23/05/2021 09:39

it was always what we planned to do once children came along. Did you tell her this from the beginning? She might have had the opportunity to adjust if you'd been open with her. If you weren't, you've treated her like a child or a potential obstruction; which on some level she will have known.

M0rT · 23/05/2021 09:45

My MIL was also divorced in affair circumstances, her husband had actually had a baby with the OW before she found out.
It did leave her very dependent on her children for her happiness but understandably as she had to raise them on her own after he left.
We live slightly closer to her than my parents and my DH spends a lot of time with her and thinking about her.
In the early days it was difficult as she was delighted with me because I am Irish
(previous girlfriend wasn't and she was terrified he wouldn't settle here) but also didn't like that she couldn't see him every day.
She is also a nice woman who has been nothing but kind to me.
I spent the early years torn between frustration at how much time and headspace she took up and how much our plans had to revolve around her and guilt for feeling like that as she is a decent person who just wants her kids around all the time.
I have come to terms with it now, I accept that her happiness and comfort is very important to my DH so I support him in this and will occasionally make suggestions for things I think would make her life easier/invite her to come away with us (outside Covid).
But I won't feel guilty for wanting to spend time with my DH alone or with my DH and my family only.
I know sometimes he feels guilt and in the early days it was like there was a log in his head, a day out with me meant a day out with his DM to keep it even. I'm not sure he realised he was doing that but it was very obvious.
You just have to accept that for all her gentle ways she is advocating strongly for what she wants so you are entitled to do the same.
It's your life and if you stay near her and raise your DC away from your own family and somewhere you are not that happy you will only have yourself to blame.
She is choosing how to live her life it's up to you to do the same.

Mandalay246 · 23/05/2021 09:47

Strangely enough, my parents who have lived on the other side of the world without me for 10 years and who have never met their grandchild, never make me feel this way. They feel no less disappointed, but they would just never want their children to feel beholden to them.

That is how parents are supposed to behave. Honestly, there are lots of people who have emigrated to NZ/Australia over many decades and made it work. She sounds overly invested in her adult children's lives. You and your husband must do what is best for your family, and I'm afraid if that means moving to NZ she will have to come to terms with it.

Mosaic123 · 23/05/2021 09:47

I am sorry. It's just that my Mum's sibling moved to Oz when their Mum was in her early 70s. I remember the family discussions at the time.

MissDolittle15 · 23/05/2021 09:49

@giletrouge I was 19 when we got together, and 22 when I moved to the UK. Kids were not even on the agenda at that age and stage.

My DH and I had the 'big conversation' about marriage, kids and where we would settle a few years ago, and we were upfront with MIL. She has known for at least 4 years.

OP posts:
OwlinaTree · 23/05/2021 09:49

You need to do what is best for your immediate family, if that is to move to NZ then that is what you should do.

I would be very upset if my child wanted to live on the other side of the world, and I think you need to accept that she is not going to be happy for you about this. You are not going to get her blessing to do it. She is not unusual to want her son living near enough to visit. You speak of how much you miss your family, she will feel the same way.

I think you feel guilty that she will be upset, and you want her to be ok about you going. I don't think that is going to happen. However, you are not responsible for her feelings, neither is your DH.

I hope this works out for you, it must be so difficult not having been able to see your family for so long.

giletrouge · 23/05/2021 09:52

[quote MissDolittle15]@giletrouge I was 19 when we got together, and 22 when I moved to the UK. Kids were not even on the agenda at that age and stage.

My DH and I had the 'big conversation' about marriage, kids and where we would settle a few years ago, and we were upfront with MIL. She has known for at least 4 years.[/quote]
Ah ok that wasn't clear. Thank you.

Gennz18 · 23/05/2021 09:52

Hi OP, how old is MIL and could she afford to visit?

I’d move if I were you - even if just for a few years while your baby is little - you may ultimate decide to go back to the UK and it’s easier to make those decisions before you’re locked into school.

I’m a Kiwi as is DH & we live in NZ, but my SIL is permanently settled in the UK and my MIL usually visits once a year and SIL and family try to come once a year as well (pre Covid). When SIL had her babies MIL went and stayed with them for extended visits to help out.

The flight is bad but as a Kiwi you’re used to it - pre Covid we tried to head back to the UK/Europe once a year. If you break it up in Singapore for a night and even treat yourself to premium economy it’s really not so bad (I know you’ll know this, I mean in terms of getting MIL to visit).

The only thing I would say is that housing is insanely expensive- here in Auckland it’s probably crazier than London in terms of unaffordability. It is a nice lifestyle though if you can navigate around that!

BrownEyedGirl80 · 23/05/2021 09:55

Its his mother and he's fine with the move clearly so just do it.

EnjoyingTheSilence · 23/05/2021 09:55

You have nothing to feel guilty for. You have suggested she come with you, she is making the decision to stay. You cannot live your life for someone else. You will always regret it and the move you feel for her will turn into resentment. Go

BarbarianMum · 23/05/2021 09:56

Well it's up to your dh really. If he doesnt mind, why should you? I'm amazed youd be happy for her to relocate with you though. Your op makes you sound like you despise the woman.

oneglassandpuzzled · 23/05/2021 09:56

People saying that elderly parents can make the journey should be aware that it’s not that simple once you are into your mid-eighties and above. My mother, 83, is reconciling herself to not seeing my brother again as her cancer will probably return before she can fly to Australia. Even if she stays in remission a long journey to Australia isn’t attractive when you are becoming very elderly.
Whatever you do in these circumstances someone pays the price.

Amdone123 · 23/05/2021 10:01

Mil is selfish. You say she doesn't want to move because she has lots of friends. Good for her.
My son is 32 and the light of my life. I have a granddaughter, too, who means absolutely the world to me.
If my son wanted to emigrate, I would never make him feel guilty about it. It's his life, not mine. Of course I would be upset, but I would encourage him all the way. Because that's what parents do.