AIBU to think that child maintenance is actually very unfair to the RP?

[ECJW]

Just a thought I had due to speaking to my ex about costs for our DD and it hit me, NRP only have to give up a certain % of their incomes a week even though they don’t have to think about or incur any of the day to day costs of having children...

AIBU to think that it’s unfair that RP gets the brunt of paying for most of these things?

It occurred to me that even if ex paid £180 a month that it would only be covering DD’s packed lunches and a couple of extra bits and that’s it... that’s without normal groceries for her, drinks, clothes she might need, shoes she might need, school costs, activities and everything else...

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is an appropriate amount of child maintenance for one child when NRP has no other children to support?

In the end, you can't take, what NRP haven't got. They also need to house and feed themselves.

At the moment, it's the RP gets to decide how to feed the child, what activities they do and where they live.

There are 100's of threads where the RP parent is unhappy about increasing contact (controlling ex, ...) and reducing maintenance (lazy ex who doesn't want to pay) or acess to activities on contact days (he won't take tallented DC to xyz lessons) Maybe the mindset around child maintenance needs to change.

*£12 wrap around care? £4.50 an hour for a childminder?

Unbelievable how much cheaper life is in some areas of the UK compared to others!*

I’m in zone 2 london and after school club is less than £6 a day. From 3.30 until 6. Including a “snack” which turned out to be a fairly substantial meal- hot dogs, beans on toast, baked potatoes etc.

£12 for after school club seems on the low if it also includes breakfast club but £4.50 for a childminder is very very cheap.

In any case, 2 kids, that still makes it over £120 a week, £200 at least during holiday. That’s a lot when you earn just over the threshold for tax credits and you get no or very minimal maintenance.

I think some people overestimate how much help with childcare costs single parents get as well. It is UP to 70%, not a blanket 70%. My childcare bill is about £1300 a year and I only get £250 of it paid by tax credits, I earn minimum wage.

@reallyreallyborednow

*£12 wrap around care? £4.50 an hour for a childminder?

Unbelievable how much cheaper life is in some areas of the UK compared to others!*

I’m in zone 2 london and after school club is less than £6 a day. From 3.30 until 6. Including a “snack” which turned out to be a fairly substantial meal- hot dogs, beans on toast, baked potatoes etc.

This is so mismatched with what I see around me... our breakfast club (7.30 to 9) is £13 and afterschool club (3.30 to 6.30) £18 per child. Also London.

@vivainsomnia

£12 for after school club seems on the low if it also includes breakfast club but £4.50 for a childminder is very very cheap.

In any case, 2 kids, that still makes it over £120 a week, £200 at least during holiday. That’s a lot when you earn just over the threshold for tax credits and you get no or very minimal maintenance.

It’s not really cheap. It’s normal for my area.

Its not just childcare that is expensive. Teens are really expensive. I have teenage sons. My food bill is shooting up and up. They cost a lot more to feed than an adult man would.

Also clothes. Its not unusual for them to grow out of clothes and shoes within weeks. One of my sons is currently growing at the rate of about an inch every month or two. They start wanting a social life, going to Nandos, the cinema with friends. They need laptops for school, if you go on holiday or to a theme park they have to pay adult prices, even if still under 16.

Yes some of these things aren't essential, although you do have to feed and clothe them. But they are normal things most teens in my area do.

@Missillusioned

Its not just childcare that is expensive. Teens are really expensive. I have teenage sons. My food bill is shooting up and up. They cost a lot more to feed than an adult man would.

Also clothes. Its not unusual for them to grow out of clothes and shoes within weeks. One of my sons is currently growing at the rate of about an inch every month or two. They start wanting a social life, going to Nandos, the cinema with friends. They need laptops for school, if you go on holiday or to a theme park they have to pay adult prices, even if still under 16.

Yes some of these things aren't essential, although you do have to feed and clothe them. But they are normal things most teens in my area do.

That it what the child maintenance should cover , the extra food and clothing.

Not housing as in theory both parents would have a similar sized house with roughly the same bills and especially if the RP is receiving universal credit for the housing element of it.

If a RP works part time and picks up roughly 500 to 600 a month has 2 children they will pick up roughly 1200 a month add wage and add child maintenance it's not a bad little earner is it.

Plus you then add other benefits such as child benefit, free school meals etc

@Loveacoseynightin

Are you seriously saying that being a single mom is a nice little earner?

I think having a child and then deciding you don't want to be a father anymore is a nice little earner.

The NRP can keep their job and work more hours if they need more money. They don't have to worry about care in the school holidays or the child's emotional needs for a start.

My ex is supposed to pay £150 a month and has done everything he can not to pay for years.

I think taking home over a grand a month and only having to pay £150 is a great little earner for him.

[quote Aerisash]@Loveacoseynightin

Are you seriously saying that being a single mom is a nice little earner?

I think having a child and then deciding you don't want to be a father anymore is a nice little earner.

The NRP can keep their job and work more hours if they need more money. They don't have to worry about care in the school holidays or the child's emotional needs for a start.

My ex is supposed to pay £150 a month and has done everything he can not to pay for years.

I think taking home over a grand a month and only having to pay £150 is a great little earner for him. [/quote]
@Aerisash I'm not saying it is a little earner what I am saying is that single mothers pleading poverty when in reality that is not the case.

I agree people not paying CMS are scumbags but you shouldn't punish the people that are only paying the minimum

loveacosynightin I actually don't disagree re housing (other than the need to live in catchment areas and close to work as they will need a shorter commute than an NRP which could increase the cost significantly) but you are way off in the rest. My food bill for 3 of us is about £70 a week, plus school lunches at around £3 per day. If they are away for a whole week of the hols, that goes down to £20 flat. Just me. Soup for lunch, box of cereal. Stir fries for dinner. No idea why you would think those figures you've quoted are typical. I work full time on about 35k. I get nothing other than CB. 35k is alright but there's nothing left at the end of the month and as I said upthread, ex who earns slightly more than me pays less than 1/3 of my kids actual costs (and I've excluded mortgage, CT and utilities from the calculation of that).

Housing costs are only paid by UC if you rent. Not if you have a mortgage

You also have to have an extremely low wage to qualify for free school meals. I believe it's something like £7,400 if you are on UC

@Loveacoseynightin you literally said "it's not a bad little earner is it"

@Pesimistic

It's ridiculous my ex has fiddled his tax so he's paying less than he should be.. he's on over 1000 a week and pays half of what he should pay

Totally same as my situation. I have been wondering how I go about proving it

I’m surprised at the statement that single mum would pay a mortgage on the same size home even if they didn’t have children. I certainly wouldn’t have lived in a 3 bed with a garden if it wasn’t for the children. The garden was just a source of stress and extra costs, but the children of course loved it.

I’d have been very happy in a 1 bed flat with a balcony, possibly 2 bed, but my mortgage would certainly have been lower.

@Loveacoseynightin

You did say it's not a bad little earner and now you suggest single moms are claiming poverty even though it's not the case!

If being a single parent was a nice little earner then they would not need benefits to top up their wages.
I am sure a lot of mothers learn to live without the money their children are entitled to but why should they?
The NRP has it a lot easier than the RP by giving a tiny amount every month if they feel like it.

Some people seem to be under the impression that most RPs are in receipt of lots of benefits. This is not the case.
Free school meals are only available for the very poorest. If you earn more than about 7k you don't get them.
I have more than 2 teens, I earn a wage in the range of 35-40k. The only benefit I receive is Child benefit. Which is £20 pw for the first child and £13 for subsequent children.

As it happens my ex does pay child maintenance, but it's still a good deal for him - 20% of his wage (exc pension contribution) for a houseful of teens. I can guarantee if we were still together it would cost him a lot more than that. It certainly costs me a lot more than 20% of my wage to keep them.

If he paid nothing at all we'd have a very basic life.

@vivainsomnia

I’m surprised at the statement that single mum would pay a mortgage on the same size home even if they didn’t have children. I certainly wouldn’t have lived in a 3 bed with a garden if it wasn’t for the children. The garden was just a source of stress and extra costs, but the children of course loved it.

I’d have been very happy in a 1 bed flat with a balcony, possibly 2 bed, but my mortgage would certainly have been lower.

I live in a cheap area - i could afford to keep my house quite easily so why wouldnt i i dont want to live in a 1 bed flat just because i didnt have a child living with me.

We all have different opinions and value different things.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I agree with vivain that I'd have a different place if I wasn't RP. Probably still 3 bed but could be out of town, smaller garden etc. My ex has a bed for them each but that's about it because they're not often there and they complain about the lack of things to do, so the 'same housing costs' argument doesn't stack up in most cases.

what what has to do with anything? so your opinion matters but mine doesnt?

Just because "same housing costs" doesnt stack up for your ex, doesnt mean it doesnt for every ex.

It seems to me that some posters have shit ex husbands and like to believe therefore that everyone elses ex husband is equally as shit.

@Loveacoseynightin single parents do not get free school meals if they work. Free school meals are for people claiming unemployment or disability benefits. I pay for all school meals.

I am saying is that single mothers pleading poverty when in reality that is not the case.

Sorry. I assumed this was a joke?

@Loveacoseynightin when you say 'single mothers pleading poverty'...

Did you know that nearly half of the children of single parents live in poverty? And ultimately that is what this should be about. Not whether we as single mothers get 'me time' (though that would be nice), but because children are getting so much less than they should. Unfortunately some of those children would have been in poverty no matter what, but many of them might have been funded by the £4 billion in child support owed, not to mention the extra that would have been paid if well-paid NRPs weren't able to fake low self employed earnings or just pay exactly what CMS tells them to, but which isn't enough to pay a quarter of the cost of raising them. Or alternatively, better funded childcare, and back to work schemes for those who have taken time off with young DCs would solve a lot of the problem - because that is there the standard cm falls far short, and also why so many single mothers don't work. It would help the children, the mothers and society, it's a cost but also an investment in the future.

www.gingerbread.org.uk/policy-campaigns/publications-index/tackling-single-parent-poverty-after-coronavirus/

we definitely need better, cheaper childcare.

I would quite happily pay more tax to fund it, because it would help ALL parents to some extent, but it would enable (usually!) women to go back to work, have independence, have a career if that's what they want, allow them to study or retrain....

We would ALL benefit from that, directly or indirectly.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

we definitely need better, cheaper childcare.

I would quite happily pay more tax to fund it, because it would help ALL parents to some extent, but it would enable (usually!) women to go back to work, have independence, have a career if that's what they want, allow them to study or retrain....

We would ALL benefit from that, directly or indirectly.

Me too.

getoffyourarse I meant that I think the idea that you prefer to live in a bigger house than you need is irrelevant to the discussion of the housing costs of an NRP which are being used as a reason as to why they can't contribute adequately to the main residence of their children. I agree that an NRP who sees the children on a regular if minimal basis does need adequate space so they can't really downsize to a 1 bed flat but a personal preference to maintain a much bigger home, at the cost of NOT supporting the primary residence would not be ok. There are RPs on here talking about their exes living in 4 bed houses on the earnings they garner thanks to to the RP doing all the childcare, while the children are in less happy surroundings.