Sometimes I feel like this is George Orwell’s 1984

[Namechangeforobv]

Name change as my last thread attracted a lot of attention.
Anyway, am I the only one that feels like freedom of speech is slowly dying?!
If my opinion or views differ from the ‘woke’ then it is clearly not valid!

For example I voted to leave the EU, I chose this because leaving benefitted me more than staying. My personal circumstances, my personal choice.
Conversation starts at work about it, I was asked what I voted and immediately discussion closed because it was so “wrong” that I had voted this.

YABU for “no your wrong”
YANBU for “yes I agree”

Ah yes freedom of speech is dying, as you post publicly on a website about a vote you were able to cast

@supermoonrising

YABU. Free speech isn’t being stifled. But of course people should always be on guard - particularly with regards to the big tech companies which do seem a bit trigger happy with the censorship of late.

I do think that we need more scrutiny over how much control the major tech companies have in terms of allowing discourse. Obviously they are private companies, however they are now the main platforms for public discussion. Their moderation is at times pretty extreme - for example gender critical women being taken off twitter, de-monetised on youtube for talking about women's rights.

Yes, you can say that as a private company they can do what they like, however social media platforms need public participation in order to exist, they make money off of us.
There does seems to be an overreach in terms of moderation. Another example is the gender critical subreddit being removed completely, when all sorts of other stuff that is unpalatable is still allowed on Reddit.

Even the feminist board on MN is heavily moderated. There are certain words that will get you deleted, which aren't hate speech, but are not allowed anyway, because they are not 'in the spirit of the discussion'.

So, yes free speech exists, but try telling that to the people who are constantly deleted.

When I say she was horrible to me, I meant bullied me in the workplace afterwards over things not related to politics at all.

If she bullied you, then that's not OK.

But that wouldnt be OK regardless of your political opinions, how woke or not they are etc....

I am not going to oppose your views on something I couldn’t possibly relate to being someone that did not vote the same as you.

Most people who voted Brexit voted without educating themselves on what this means and/or their vote was a reflection of their xenophobia. While a lot of people will claim that's not true, often it is.

Lefty lies designed to belittle anyone who voted to leave

Why lefty lies ? What a huge generalisation.

Funnily enough there are people with right and left wing views who voted to leave.

YANBU

@IreallydontknowImtired

where people who were very vocal about 'cancelling' others for one belief or another are now finding themselves on the receiving end for not towing the line on something else, like JKR or Chrissy Tiegan.

Didn't realise JKR was part of the cancel culture. Or used to be. This is interesting bit of news. Can you please elaborate or is it something I'll easily find online?

Hey,

I actually love JK, but I follow her on twitter and vividly remember her relentlessly trolling Donald Trump almost every day because she didn't agree with his views on things including immigration. I am not a supporter of his by any means but remember thinking at the time she was getting almost Piers Morgan-level obsessed with slagging him off, and now obviously she receives that level of abuse herself because of her views on trans people.

@IreallydontknowImtired ^^ sorry, forgot to tag.

Thanks @Bibidy That's interesting. Don't follow her but the only impression I had of her (besides HP series) was as an innocent woman being trolled for her views on the trans debate.

As you say, full circle indeed.

I find wokeism very sinister and Year Zero-like. The arguments normally go like this :

Woke: This statue is offensive and must be removed. If it's not we will deface it and rip it down and throw it in the sea!

Non-woke: I don't agree with that.

Woke: Ugh, why do gammon care so much about stupid statues?

Non-woke: But it was you who .....

Woke: I'm glad you're old and you're going to die soon so the world can be full of compassionate people like me!

There is no way of having a reasoned discussion with them.

@BagORats

Most people who voted Brexit voted without educating themselves on what this means and/or their vote was a reflection of their xenophobia. While a lot of people will claim that's not true, often it is.

Lefty lies designed to belittle anyone who voted to leave

Nope. You could see the massive anti foreigners sentiment, people sterling jobs, propaganda and fear mongering.

If you consider the age and locations of people who voted to leave it's really common sense to see what swayed a lot of voters.

A lot of people who voted to remain were somehow aware that Brexit would be a shit show. But lots of people who voted to leave ended up surprised and saying they would have voted differently.

YANBU op
Looks like majority agree with you on this.

EsmaCannonball

You can't understand why descendants of slaves have a problem with statues of slave traders and white supremacists?

Let's have a 'reasoned' discussion about that then.

The quality of debate and the rules of debate have been going down the toilet in this country for years - I remember hearing politicians debate and starting with 'i must respectfully disagree) and actually sound respectful. We really need to get back to this.

@IreallydontknowImtired

Thanks *@Bibidy* That's interesting. Don't follow her but the only impression I had of her (besides HP series) was as an innocent woman being trolled for her views on the trans debate.

As you say, full circle indeed.

That's it exactly tbh, I think lots of people will end up in the same position as her - and w'ere already starting to see it - because despite being vocal supporters of some of the more 'acceptable' viewpoints, they can put one toe out of line on one of the others and that's it for them.

Most people who voted Brexit voted without educating themselves on what this means.

I think this is also true of most remainers, and I say that as a staunch remainer.

When did I get the hump?! I just don’t think I have to explain myself as to why I voted leave for my reason to then be discredited or belittled because you may not agree

But then you're the one shutting down discussion, not the "woke" remainers!

Discussion is a two-way thing, it requires both (or all) parties to participate. Have the courage of your convictions, ffs.

I have given up posting on her about most things political. A lot of those on MN are very Intolerant of anyone who don’t agree with them

Tory and Brexit bashing is fife

But the tories are the elite, the leavers the winners .

To answer the title of the OP: Yes, i do feel like we are the novel 1984. Mobile phones track our movements, streaming services track our viewing, our internet searches are recorded, our purchases logged, photos with locations and other people identified. Our movements on the streets are recorded by cctv.

That to me is big brother. We are allowed free of speech and this government actively encourages polarised views (they are prone to stoking culture wars). These are characterised by strident opinions and not engaging constructively with the other view. It's one of their electoral strategies.

Brexit and being able air your views is nothing like big brother. Like others have said people not liking your views is not that same as being "shut down". It should be the starting point for a discussion in which you may or not eventually others' point of view.

Lack of empathy may be underlies why people don't engage in debate. Also instant gratification - wanting immediate warm feelings of being told your opinion is right - too. Or may people were always like this but social media just brings it to light.

I disagree with you on Brexit but I agree with you on debate being shut down

Women are losing their jobs and being threatened with violence for defending their rights. Speakers are being no platformed and "no debate" is seen by some as a valid stance. Critical thinking seems to be diminishing.

because of her views on trans people.
No @Bibidy NOT her "views on Trans people." It was the fact she said and continues to say that biological sex is real and important.

@Sunflowers095

You are so bigoted and immature. You actually believe you can get the measure of a person based on where they live and how old they are?

Nobody likes being sneered at, Sunflowers. Especially by people who think they are superior because they are younger, ‘better educated’ and live in London or Scotland (or wherever).

Grow up.

Critical thinking seems to be diminishing.

This in spades. We're being drowned out by the sound of the groupthink echo chamber.