Sometimes I feel like this is George Orwell’s 1984

[Namechangeforobv]

Name change as my last thread attracted a lot of attention.
Anyway, am I the only one that feels like freedom of speech is slowly dying?!
If my opinion or views differ from the ‘woke’ then it is clearly not valid!

For example I voted to leave the EU, I chose this because leaving benefitted me more than staying. My personal circumstances, my personal choice.
Conversation starts at work about it, I was asked what I voted and immediately discussion closed because it was so “wrong” that I had voted this.

YABU for “no your wrong”
YANBU for “yes I agree”

[quote KinseyWinsey]@rubyreddiamond yep. 🙄

Cannot bear all this rectum flapping of people talking utter shit and then bleating about 'freedom of speech' when they are shut down.

They aren't shut down because of no freedom of speech. They are shut down because they talk rubbish.

Freedom of speech means you can say it but don't be surprised when people react to your nonsense and burn it. [/quote]
It’s fine to react but react with debate rather than swearing, malice and insults. I have no respect for people who react in this way

YABU. Free speech isn’t being stifled. But of course people should always be on guard - particularly with regards to the big tech companies which do seem a bit trigger happy with the censorship of late.

I wouldn’t dare question someone’s reason for voting differently to me, I especially wouldn’t call them names for doing so. The same way I wouldn’t belittle someone wanting to be referred to as they/them and would respectfully call them what they wish to be known as, even though I may/may not understand their reasons to be called this. It’s mutual respect.

YANBU in that you are entitled to your views without being shut down. YABU in that this is still hardly 1984 territory. The people actually in power are very much not woke and very much able to speak and to lead the country in the most unwoke way possible, while pretending that vociferous people on twitter or people on unversity campuses, who have been like this for years (and as a 'woke' person myself I think they are sometimes OTT) without upending society, now somehow have the whip hand.

And the Daily Mail and Sun are still the widest-read papers, so I don't think the country is at any risk of being in the grip of 'the woke army'

Did MNHQ tell you that you'd been deleted because of the views you expressed?

I usually find when people use words like “woke” and say “freedom of speech is dying” what they actually mean is that people are challenge their views and they don’t like it

The last person who claimed that "people like me" were trying to infringe their right to "free speech" had just come out with a vile rant about the business practices of south Asian muslims in the guise of "explaining" why they wouldn't sell their house to a P*.

They also claimed that, given my political views, they were surprised I wasn't a vegan and a "lezzer".

Freedom of speech should never include the right to use it to try and promote racism, homophobia and misogyny imo.

Don’t agree with cancelling or censoring views that are different from the majority.

I agree, and I said YANBU for that reason. But tbh, your colleagues not wanting to continue a conversation about a particular topic really isn't 'cancelling' you. And as others have pointed out, your view is hardly a minority one, otherwise Remain would have won. You have the right to express your opinions, but nobody actually has to listen to you or debate with you if they don't want to. I avoid getting into conversations about Brexit with my df - I know his views and I know I will get cross if I allow myself to be drawn in!

However it’s not quite as straightforward as some argue. Twitter
and FB (for example) are owned by their shareholders. They can do what they like. They owe Joe Bloggs nothing. By insisting that they publish Person X’s latest rant, you could in fact argue that you are trying to take take away their freedom to decide who and what they publish.. They can publish and not publish whoever they choose - same as any newspaper.

I wouldn’t dare question someone’s reason for voting differently to me

I mean, unless you avoid politics at all (which I do do with some loved ones) I'd don't get what's terrible about having a discussion?

@Mulletsaremisunderstood

OP, I recommend a book called 'The Coddling of the American Mind'. It talks about how university students in the US started demanding protection from words they don't like, demanding things be remove from the curriculum because they felt 'unsafe' .

YY excellent book

The only thing more tedious than the ultra woke brigade is people moaning about this collection of tiny minority pressure groups as if they’re about to take over the country. We’ve had 11 years of Tory government and the usual suspects are raking it in more than ever, despite years of austerity and a global pandemic. Relax, the status quo is doing just fine.

@Badyboo

I wouldn’t dare question someone’s reason for voting differently to me

I mean, unless you avoid politics at all (which I do do with some loved ones) I'd don't get what's terrible about having a discussion?

Yes, I agree. I just don’t agree when someone is told that there view is wrong to have or not worth discussing as it is different to the other parties. I think we need to respect all views, extreme or not. When people are listened to they feel respected. We don’t have to agree, we just have to be willing to consider there may be a difference of opinion and neither are right or wrong

And when I say extreme I am referring to “extreme in your opinion” not outright fascism

I do agree OP.

We have definitely reached a point where there is one accepted line of thought about most things and anyone who is outside of that is immediately dismissed as ignorant and/or prejudiced. I feel like it's almost come full circle now in the publicly visible celeb world, where people who were very vocal about 'cancelling' others for one belief or another are now finding themselves on the receiving end for not towing the line on something else, like JKR or Chrissy Tiegan.

I was quite shocked following the Brexit referendum where the general assumption was that everyone in earshot had voted remain and people would loudly slate people who had voted to leave in the middle of my workplace. Obviously given the referendum was almost 50/50 it's reasonable to assume that many people around them probably hadn't voted remain, but wouldn't have felt confident to say so given the hostility with which they were being spoken about.

@supermoonrising

The only thing more tedious than the ultra woke brigade is people moaning about this collection of tiny minority pressure groups as if they’re about to take over the country. We’ve had 11 years of Tory government and the usual suspects are raking it in more than ever, despite years of austerity and a global pandemic. Relax, the status quo is doing just fine.

I’m referring to things such as:

• censoring history
• trans women participation in Olympics
• Facebook censorship
• propaganda in the news
• vaccine or no vaccine

Those kind of topics, even the Piers Morgan saga.

@Bibidy

I do agree OP.

We have definitely reached a point where there is one accepted line of thought about most things and anyone who is outside of that is immediately dismissed as ignorant and/or prejudiced. I feel like it's almost come full circle now in the publicly visible celeb world, where people who were very vocal about 'cancelling' others for one belief or another are now finding themselves on the receiving end for not towing the line on something else, like JKR or Chrissy Tiegan.

I was quite shocked following the Brexit referendum where the general assumption was that everyone in earshot had voted remain and people would loudly slate people who had voted to leave in the middle of my workplace. Obviously given the referendum was almost 50/50 it's reasonable to assume that many people around them probably hadn't voted remain, but wouldn't have felt confident to say so given the hostility with which they were being spoken about.

Exactly, when it was addressed in my workplace, I was given the dirtiest look for even daring to vote differently. The discussion was happening around me and I was excluded from it as soon as they realised I had voted leave. Had I voted remain I am sure my opinion would of been valid.

You seem to think people are asking you why you voted that way to catch you out, but I'd like to know how Brexit benefited you because I am really really hoping that there are benefits!

So far the only positive I've seen has been vaccine deployment, which is a big one. I've seen quite a few negatives so far as well (mostly around work as I work in financial services and it's adding so much extra cost and layers of stupid paperwork we never had to do before - making our company less profitable as a result, also more difficult to hire good people) so I'm (genuinely!!) hoping for more positives to add to the plus side of the ledger.

So did MNHQ tell you you'd been deleted because of the views you'd expressed?

where people who were very vocal about 'cancelling' others for one belief or another are now finding themselves on the receiving end for not towing the line on something else, like JKR or Chrissy Tiegan.

Didn't realise JKR was part of the cancel culture. Or used to be. This is interesting bit of news. Can you please elaborate or is it something I'll easily find online?

@Bibidy

In what way is history being censored?

*I’m referring to things such as:

• censoring history
• trans women participation in Olympics
• Facebook censorship
• propaganda in the news
• vaccine or no vaccine*

1. What history is being censored?
2. It’s a thorny issue, but I agree it’s got out of hand.
3. Facebook is owned by its shareholders, same as any media group. They can do what they want.
4. There’s always been propaganda in the news. News is mostly just propaganda of one kind or another.
5. Not sure that’s being censored as such.

@ilovesooty

So did MNHQ tell you you'd been deleted because of the views you'd expressed?

It was deleted because it wasn’t keeping “in spirit”

Isn't it kind of a good thing your colleagues didn't want to carry on talking about Brexit considering you don't want to talk about it?

You’re entitled to do as you please, but what might be an interesting debate topic to you, might be the difference between life and death for someone else so it’s not surprising people feel strongly about it.