To be really shocked and surprised by dds continuously oppositional behaviour? Can anyone tell me why she's like this and that I can do?

[Falaffeleybollocks]

Dd is 6. Her father and I share care following a difficult split when she was 1. She has settled into the routine between the 2 houses which is a long held and reliable routine and behaves well at school. With me however she will simply refuse, avoid or be oppositional to each and every suggestion and request pretty much all day. She is sunny tempered and fun so at first ie at the beginning of a Saturday or from when I pick her up from school I don't notice that actually she is oppositional to pretty much every request or suggestion until I am asking to sit down for dinner or wash her hands or not to get up and dance during dinner... And then lose my rag. Last weekend I was sobbing by 11.30 am as after 4 hours of it I felt broken. She also lies, frankly, continuously about anything that she thinks she can do there is also a continuous stream of tall tales that I actually don't know what to make of. She is very bright I can see that, (working at greater depth in all areas, always has) so is she just running rings around me?
I genuinely do not understand what is going on. Is this disrupted attachment as she experienced a lot of distress going between homes when a little baby, which I feel terrible about but was court ordered? Is she just a cheeky kid who is getting away with what she can with me? Is this some form of pda or odd?
Or am I just a crap parent?
When I have asked her in a calm moment when we are just relaxing together she says its just with me and dad and she doesn't like how we boss her around.
Any help much appreciated!

Thanks all really supportive.
I might well save up and see if I can find some good assessment teams for her next year, I think it would help and just try and keep her regulated and steady and clear on the boundaries, rules and so forth... Also so lovely to hear about the monkeys who have grown out of it! Gives me hope!!

Agreeing with how defiant children feel without giving in to what they want works like a magic spell.

DD went through a stage a bit like this when she was 7 - she'd always been easy until then so I was very surprised, but then I read or heard somewhere that most children go through a stage where they are testing boundaries, and for girls this usually happens around 6 or 7.

Sure enough, after some time (months, a year?) she reverted to her usual much easier self. (teenage years looming now, that could be a whole other story....)

I don't remember it being as bad as you describe but I'm not on my own and she had a brother to dilute things. Or maybe your DD does have PDA or ODD but those are very often part of a wider autism spectrum scenario. Hopefully it is just a stage - stay firm, stay as calm as possible, and stick to your rules, and hopefully it will pass. Good luck.

@StormBaby

It’s an anxiety driven need for control. It’s quite simple when you see it for what it is. I suggest giving options all the time, reduce unnecessary demands, and accept the distraction techniques she employs as they are nothing but a security blanket.

@StormBaby I know this sounds strange but what is the anxiety about ? My DS behaves like the OPs and does the same dancing mid dinner. He's not a genius, but needs to be constantly doing something or he starts dancing. He doesn't go between homes, but my DH works away a lot and is distant and has a different parenting style too. I have move between ADHD/ PDA and just being immature. He also has the issue at school alas.

Could it be anxiety? I would be sceptical about ODD/PDA if she can behave at school. With my DS, normal things were always a battle but eventually I realised he was worried about something (irrational or not) in many cases. I have started asking “so what’s the worst thing about [going for a walk/brushing your teeth/etc etc x1000]?” And sometime the answers were surprising. It is very wearing, but try to remember that all behaviour is communication. It’s just a matter of figuring out what she is trying to say...

Thats a very good point boneless...

Last wekeend after my breakdown I had a good think and I realised that she was a bit poorly, unsettled and tired and prob just need of more love. So I kept saying every time she was oppositional... Okay this is happening again, how can I show you I love you? And she could pick out of the 5 love languages. She wanted cuddles and to 'play babies' with me which we did. Something about comfort and regression there I think

But yes that took a lot of time and space and I just didn't have that this eve I guess

This is just my view but I see others saying same sort of thing OP.

It's you and DP and then her dad and his set up.

She's only little.

She wants and needs to know that you love her. Attention seeking in that situation is understandable I think.

She's been away from you for a few days she wants you to make a fuss of her. Prove that she is unconditionally loved by you and you want her there more than anything.

Pushing boundaries hard is also usual at that age.

The love languages thing is to me a bit odd. Again she's only little. She just wants you. She loves you. She wants to make sure you love her.

And how many rules can there be?

Can't she put her own cream on?
So what if she dances while you're eating. She's 6! She wants you to clap and say nice one. She wants your attention.

I don't think you need to take her to docs or whatever.

Things you could do.

I mean do you ever say like. That's brilliant dancing! Tell you what let's finish eating and then show us your dance so we can see it properly. I can dance with you if you like!

You know, jollying along.

And choices. And explanations.

You need the cream because otherwise that graze could get infected and it'll be painful and harder to make better.
Do you want to put the cream on or shall I do it?

That sort of stuff.

Just my opinion obviously.

I'm sorry OP but I think. She's 6. She's still really little. She just wants reassurance. Your time. Your affection.

'Okay this is happening again, how can I show you I love you? '

Really? How can I show you i love you?

Playing babies is regression in a 6yo?

You surely know how to show her you love her? You know what things she enjoys and finds comforting?

My 11yo still has the bedtime story she had as a baby. It makes her happy. So what if it's written for 4yo!

She wants to play babies. So play sodding babies with her. I know it's a pita but it's what she wants.

Sorry if this seems harsh.

Maybe the first day she is back from her dad's carve out an hour just you and her. Do the things she loves. Show her you love her without having to ask how.

When my eldest son was quite small he was very argumentative and I felt like we were always in a battle. My lovely calm husband said that we should just lighten up and have fun and pick the things we found most important as the “battle” (at the time being kind to his brother). Your post reminds me of this. Mine are older now and I look at 6 year olds and they are SO young. She isn’t “regressing” to play babies - she just wants to be looked after and play a fun game where she gets cuddled.
I would say, pick the things that are MOST important and then let the other things slide. So if she’s dancing at the table, just let her, or just ignore it, or say “I like you to sit at the table so your dinner doesn’t get spilt on the floor. So eat sitting down and when you’re done, let’s put on music and dance together”.
For the cream “your graze might get infected and make you feel ill if we don’t put cream on it, but you’re a big girl now, how about I show you how to do it?”
And then just relax a bit. Being a mum doesn’t have to be all rules and strictness, you can laugh and have fun with them and have a joke, as long as they know and understand the boundaries.

Oh and my argumentative older one is now in the Firsts debating team!
Around that age when he would argue for things I would say “persuade me” if it was something that I was prepared to go along with (eg, can we stay at the park for another half an hour, can I have an ice cream etc” and he would come up with really actually quite good reasons as to why he could have/do that thing. I didn’t do this if it was something I was going to say no about, then I would say no and give my reason. It’s good for kids to understand reasons as well
Mine used to love playing with soap bubbles at the sink and I hated it as it was a mess to clear up and I clearly remember the day that they asked to do it, I said “no because I hate clearing up the mess afterwards”. The two of them went away into a huddle and came back and said “how about we do it outside and then hose off the patio afterwards” and I was like “Yes!”

Good post from NiceGerbil.

She's very small still and has a permanently unsettling and probably quite tiring routine (how many adults would really be OK with swapping houses in the middle of the week, on someone else's schedule?). You have a new partner. Perhaps her father does too. Her father's a disciplinarian. She just wants your attention and unconditional love, and to be able to let go a bit.

It's nothing to do with being bring. At 6 she's trying to communicate something or struggling with something emotionally.

My dd has adhd and because she spends her time at school trying to be 'normal' when she gets home all the suppressed behaviours come flooding out. Great for school and learning, not great for me.

@aprilanne

This is why shared care doesn't work for very small children .sorry I know it was court ordered but do these court folk not understand children need a permanent home and not shoved from pillar to post every week and not to actually have a main home is got to be traumatizing .no wonder she us acting out .PDA is an actial developmental health condition. Usually linked to autism ..I feel sorry for her and you

i agree with this , my mum who is 84 has long said how can it be good for children to be living some days at one house and half the days at others , court ordered everyother weekends is fine , but i honestly feel more than that is disruptive , i think back to when i was a kid and i would have hated having to go between houses every week , i also just dont get how courts think this is in the childs best interests and its the child that pays the price and of course usually one or both the parents as well

The shared care thing sounds quite tricky for her, especially if you have different parenting styles. Often when children are in one house, one parent takes the lead or, if both parents contribute substantially to parenting, they observe each other and work out a consistent approach. My DH if left to himself would be a much crosser and more authoritarian parent since he has unrealistic expectations of young children and lacks patience. But it's mostly me who parents our son during the week since he's not here and, when DH is involved at weekends, he falls in with the way we do things and has adjusted his expectations of what it is reasonable to expect of a nursery age child. So our DC doesn't have to adjust to two parenting approaches in the way that your DD does.

I agree with the advice above about reducing expectations and love-bombing her to make sure she feels secure. Are you able to have a conversation with your ex about this issue or is that a no-go?

Only a thought, but one thing that really helps to calm down my DC is sensory play... if they're tired and cranky, there's something about giving them some toys to play with or crayons in a warm bath or putting them out in the garden with some bubbles/paints or a big tub of jelly slime that works wonders. Not sure what the 6yo equivalent is, though - mine is younger.

Yes good points and lovely ideas, thank you!

Shared care IS a nightmare for DC. Mine is court ordered too - 50/50. ExH didn't really want shared care, he wanted control, at all costs. Now his youngest two DC pay that cost. It was his way of punishing me for leaving him as he broke my jaw by belting me.

I absolutely agree the DC need a relationship with both parents, but not to their detriment. I spend a lot of my time with my DC dealing with the fall out of shared care. It ruins my enjoyment of parenting and affects my relationship with my youngest two (my eldest does not see ex as he was old enough to remember what went on and voice his wants). We all just get into a groove on a Tuesday and then they have to go back on a Saturday and the cycle starts again. As a mother, it's the worse thing that's happened to me and them tbh and I will regret bringing them into this situation for as long as I live. I hope you are okay OP, this issue is so difficult

@ItscoldinAlaska - that sounds so tough. You sound like you’re doing a great job in very challenging circumstances.

@Falaffeleybollocks my DD with (Diagnosed) ASD and PDA was similar & behaves ‘normally’ when she isn’t with us. These kids can be the ultimate maskers! All your take homes would work well with her . At the end of the day whether she has asd or not - you finding a way through is entirely possible - and what you can focus on for now whilst you save up. Once you’ve worked out what makes her and you tick this will become less overwhelming. Wishing you all the very best.

I have a very stubborn DD and I worked out that when I needed her to do things phrasing was key, exhausting always having to plan what I say but worth it. So, for example, not 'Put your shoes on now' but 'it's time to put on your shoes' so it's not phrased as a demand, just a fact. So maybe try a variation on what a PP said, such as 'It's time for tea DD, you can show me your dancing after you've eaten.'

There might be more going on here adhd for example - but some kids just need more parenting than others. You might find a lot of it is actually an attempt to get your attention.

Have you tried asking her why she is doing the things she is doing? ie why are you dancing in the middle of dinner? It might give you more insight into what is going on in her head. Perhaps you could try doing something energetic together before dinner - go for a walk/run/dance to some music. So she is getting time and attention from you and burning off some energy. Having a routine can be really helpful too ie home from school, snack and chat, she plays for a bit, you do something energetic together, she watches tv while you make dinner etc etc.

The other thing I'd try is giving her a warning before asking her to do something - she might benefit from that bit of processing time or that bit of time to finish off what she is doing. For example 'dinner's going to be ready soon so you'll need to wash your hands in a minute'. Then a few minutes later 'it's time to wash your hands now'. If it's not done then 5 minutes later 'have you washed your hands yet because dinner is ready'. It's really normal to need to ask/remind a child a few times IMO! I would also look at your tone, it sounds basic but asking nicely and like you believe they are going to do it with a big smile can be quite encouraging. If you're telling them what to do already expecting they won't do it, or you sound totally defeated you're less likely to get the response you want. Praise if they do it first time 'wow you've washed your hands already good job!'

If she is telling big stories it sounds like an attempt to get your attention I'd join in, sounds pretty creative (unless they are really horrible in which case i'd be concerned.) for example - 'mummy there was an ogre in our class today' 'goodness really? what did it look like?' etc etc

So I would try to have more fun with her, have a good routine, change your tone up and don't always expect her to do things that very minute. x

Reading this has made me realise that some of it is definitely age related. I teach violin and have four 6/7 yr olds at the moment. One struggles with correction, needs control and choices or everything stops. I've been reading up on techniques to use with PDA as though I'm confident she doesn't have it, this is the kind of behaviour we see in one to one lessons just at the moment and it helps me remember how to approach her. But the other three all need to be allowed time to show me stuff, try things out, work things out themselves, and if I don't leave enough flexibility in my lessons it doesn't work.

The really fun stretch in first lockdown was when one then 6 yr old had to have several lessons where his father was online from elsewhere to 'supervise'. If he wanted to keep playing we just had to wait till he was ready for a new instruction ...

By the way, if you are considering music lessons, find out if there is a good Suzuki teacher near you. When my eldest started lessons I found it gave me a context to practise implementing parenting techniques I understood but more in theory than practice. Now I've done the teacher training I understand better, we are interested primarily in helping the parent help the child develop.

Loads of good advice on this thread. My ds2 (7) is similar. He has responded very well to play therapy, which we accessed via a counsellor at school. A lot of his behaviour is anxiety related. He has some adhd/odd behaviours and masks very well at school but this causes him a lot of stress. He's very sensitive to the merest hint of conflict, or any surge of emotion and does not cope well with change or disruption to routine, even for something fun like a birthday.

The play therapist was fab and really helped him learn strategies to de-escalate when he is feeling overwhelmed and label and articulate his emotions. I have learned to pick my battles and notice when he is getting stressed and try to step back and get him some space/time to respond. 'No' is sometimes a knee-jerk/stress reaction.

Tiredness/hunger/stress makes things worse in my experience. I try to be more organised so I am not stressed and rushing and a pre-warn him of things eg 'tonight we have beavers. After school you'll need to get your homework done and get changed at x time' then remind again at pick-up.

Ds also started to find school more stressful in p3/year 2also, could this be a factor.

@PlanDeRaccordement

My youngest DC was like this, it is called ODD or Oppositional Defiancd Disorder. Generally you need special parenting lessons to deal with an ODD child. My DC also has ASD as well on top.

if your dc has asd then they will more than likely have pda (pathalogical demand avoidance) rather than odd, please look into it as although the behaviours seem similar the logic behind it is very different.... and how you deal with it is also very different. short story is odd is caused by the child pda is not the childs fault...