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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be really shocked and surprised by dds continuously oppositional behaviour? Can anyone tell me why she's like this and that I can do?

95 replies

Falaffeleybollocks · 19/05/2021 21:36

Dd is 6. Her father and I share care following a difficult split when she was 1. She has settled into the routine between the 2 houses which is a long held and reliable routine and behaves well at school. With me however she will simply refuse, avoid or be oppositional to each and every suggestion and request pretty much all day. She is sunny tempered and fun so at first ie at the beginning of a Saturday or from when I pick her up from school I don't notice that actually she is oppositional to pretty much every request or suggestion until I am asking to sit down for dinner or wash her hands or not to get up and dance during dinner... And then lose my rag. Last weekend I was sobbing by 11.30 am as after 4 hours of it I felt broken. She also lies, frankly, continuously about anything that she thinks she can do there is also a continuous stream of tall tales that I actually don't know what to make of. She is very bright I can see that, (working at greater depth in all areas, always has) so is she just running rings around me?
I genuinely do not understand what is going on. Is this disrupted attachment as she experienced a lot of distress going between homes when a little baby, which I feel terrible about but was court ordered? Is she just a cheeky kid who is getting away with what she can with me? Is this some form of pda or odd?
Or am I just a crap parent?
When I have asked her in a calm moment when we are just relaxing together she says its just with me and dad and she doesn't like how we boss her around.
Any help much appreciated!

OP posts:
PurpleWh1teGreen · 19/05/2021 22:31

Firstly, don't beat yourself up. She's become aware of boundaries and is pushing against them instead of accepting them unquestioningly. Which isn't a bad thing in itself. Bright children also often lie more. Not that that makes parenting them any easier Grin

The book recommendations above may help. From memory, one of the "how to talk" ideas is to say yes to everything. Except that is yes, you can dance when you've had your dinner. Yes, you can go, once you've put your cream on etc etc.

It makes sense. If she is being oppositional, just pushing back will be exhausting. Coming from another angle may be more successful and less stressful.

Good luck!!

Original poster
Falaffeleybollocks · 19/05/2021 22:34

Yes @aprilanne I agree - I wish it could have been different and it broke my heart to be away from her. I can't bear to think what she might have gone through but I have to tell myself exh wanted them very badly and has always been loving to both, although I have always personally experiebded him as cold, lacking in warmth and coercively controlling to intimate partners, ie me and then my successor.

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Cowbells · 19/05/2021 22:34

Some things that helped us with a similar stage were to offer two options both of which work for you. So instead of saying 'wash your hands' ask her does she prefer washing her hands at the kitchen sink or in the bathroom? With liquid soap or hard soap? That gives her control while you get a result and then you reinforce her choices e.g. buy a 'special' soap that's 'just for her'. Some people think this is pandering to her but it isn't. It's encouraging her to wash her hands without a fight.

Whenever you can, give her a choice. Never pick a battle over stuff that doesn't matter (eg what she wears at the weekend, or what bedtime story she chooses when she's chosen the same one for 200 nights in a row) Just reduce the battlegrounds so that on the very rare occasion you have to be the boss, she's so surprised, she does as she's told. It worked for us. DC were tantrum free toddlers and easy going teens because we really picked our battles.

TooBored1 · 19/05/2021 22:37

Have you heard of PDA?

I have no clinical knowledge and have obviously never met your daughter, but some of the behaviours you have mentioned sound similar to those of a child I know who has recently been assessed as having PDA.

www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/pda/parents-and-carers

TooBored1 · 19/05/2021 22:39

Sorry, now see it's already been mentioned.

nanbread · 19/05/2021 22:39

@Falaffeleybollocks

Yes *@aprilanne* I agree - I wish it could have been different and it broke my heart to be away from her. I can't bear to think what she might have gone through but I have to tell myself exh wanted them very badly and has always been loving to both, although I have always personally experiebded him as cold, lacking in warmth and coercively controlling to intimate partners, ie me and then my successor.
Does he shout at them?

I would seriously consider counselling, for you.

I think it would be beneficial for your DD to have a parent who can be unruffled, calm, her port in a storm, and it sounds like she's triggering you at the moment.

If you can get to a place where you can be that for her it may really help.

Original poster
Falaffeleybollocks · 19/05/2021 22:39

I have thought pda due to attachment trauma yes... She is more active and less attentive I would say than other children her age... But I've never had any negative reports from school except that she is 'very enthusiastic about everthing' this could chance by Yr 3 though

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bigbaggyeyes · 19/05/2021 22:39

A a couple of thoughts in this, firstly my dd was like this and thankfully she did grow out of it.

Is she attention seeking?

Are things like dancing at the dinner table something she does a lot, does she struggle to sit still? Can you get her a yoga ball to sit on instead of a chair. It might be sensory.

Choices are a good idea, bath or shower, wash hands upstairs or down stairs

Original poster
Falaffeleybollocks · 19/05/2021 22:41

Sorry I'm cross posting with everyone just forming a longer response

OP posts:
Original poster
Falaffeleybollocks · 19/05/2021 22:43

She does express her emotions when we are calm and just spending some time together doing an activity like drawing and painting together, we will talk about how she feels and she will tell me what makes her happy and sad. She wishes we lived in one house and she misses me when at dad's and dad when with me. It hugely saddens me at how obviously difficult she finds the shared care

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nanbread · 19/05/2021 22:43

@Falaffeleybollocks

I have thought pda due to attachment trauma yes... She is more active and less attentive I would say than other children her age... But I've never had any negative reports from school except that she is 'very enthusiastic about everthing' this could chance by Yr 3 though
You wouldn't get PDA through attachment trauma, but they can look extremely similar.

Maybe take a look at the revised Coventry Grid which compares in details the typical presentations of PDA and attachment disorder.

I would also consider possible ADHD with ODD. They often go hand in hand. I was very enthusiastic about everything as a child, and I probably have ADHD. Again it can present extremely differently in girls.

Original poster
Falaffeleybollocks · 19/05/2021 22:45

Saying yes, options and control all sound like good ideas

Yes he probably does shout on occasion but in my experice of him he's more likely to be silent and emotionally unavailable Sad

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Original poster
Falaffeleybollocks · 19/05/2021 22:48

I should say she doesn't trigger me so much as end of tether after quite a few hours of the non compliance

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StormBaby · 19/05/2021 22:48

It’s an anxiety driven need for control. It’s quite simple when you see it for what it is. I suggest giving options all the time, reduce unnecessary demands, and accept the distraction techniques she employs as they are nothing but a security blanket.

Original poster
Falaffeleybollocks · 19/05/2021 22:48

Definitely attention seeking

OP posts:
nanbread · 19/05/2021 22:48

@Falaffeleybollocks

Saying yes, options and control all sound like good ideas

Yes he probably does shout on occasion but in my experice of him he's more likely to be silent and emotionally unavailable Sad

That can be just as emotionally damaging of course.

While it's worth ruling out other things, I do wonder if it's "just" the switching between houses and maybe some anxiety around that causing her issues. Had she always been this way?

Imagine if you had to live somewhere else for half the week, every week. It must be exhausting and unsettling, even if you're used to it.

An emotionally unavailable dad may also be making her feel insecure/ unsafe. It sounds like his punishments are really harsh too. It could be she's testing you.

FourNaanJeremy · 19/05/2021 22:49

My 6 year old son is literally the same and I struggle to explain it to people but oppositional is exactly it.
I’m hoping as with everything else it’s another phase but I’ve also been tearing my hair out over it, especially weekends when it’s relentless, it drains the fucking life out of me.
He’s also a happy, polite, smart kid. Going to look into the suggestions on here on how better to deal with it/nip it in the bud.

nanbread · 19/05/2021 22:50

@StormBaby

It’s an anxiety driven need for control. It’s quite simple when you see it for what it is. I suggest giving options all the time, reduce unnecessary demands, and accept the distraction techniques she employs as they are nothing but a security blanket.
This is a more succinct way of saying what I was trying to say ;)
Original poster
Falaffeleybollocks · 19/05/2021 22:52

Yes to adhd type behaviors I am probabluly add / ADHD so maybe genetic? The odd just reserved for at home for now instead of school perhaps?!?
She is bright and interested - - and competitive-- so I am hoping this carries her through and maybe she settles down
What would help her to settle down?
School placement is good and stable

Me being unruffled?

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Original poster
Falaffeleybollocks · 19/05/2021 22:56

Brilliant advice on here, really thank you all. I think my take homes are increasing my fun and resilience and keep the emotional lines open, as well as lots of yessing, boundaries, controlled choice and low demands. Yes she is probably testing me that I'm emotionally available and safe and I always am, so at least that's a plus

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VanCleefArpels · 19/05/2021 23:01

My eldest was like this. His default mode was either “why” or “make me” (not in so many word but you get my drift). He was quite brilliant at arguing the toss , which is no good when you are trying to get shoes on and get out. We used to say he could argue black was white in an empty room 😉

I’m afraid I was not the better person and got embroiled with arguing back which just led to screaming matches and tears (mine - he mostly couldn’t give a fig).

I bought books on ODD and that helped me realise he didn’t have a syndrome, he was just a bright awkward sod who enjoyed pushing my buttons.

I’m delighted to say that he did grow out if it and I got better at not rising to the bait. He’s in his early 20’s now and a delightful young man. I think done kids are just wired that way. My mum took great pleasure in telling me I was the same as a child: I think she saw it as some kind of karma!

nanbread · 19/05/2021 23:01

What's your financial situation like?

If you have money to throw at it...

I'd consider an evaluation by a sensory integrated OT just in case there are sensory things at play, and a separate ADHD private diagnostic assessment, look for a team practised in diagnosing it in girls - I'd look for a team who could also diagnose whatever it might be eg anxiety, ODD etc.

I'd (as suggested here already) reduce demands as much as possible.

I'd look into supplements for ADHD, we've had some success with these.

I'd really recommend looking after yourself in whatever ways you need, as it's harder if you have ADHD too (earplugs help me).

VanCleefArpels · 19/05/2021 23:04

I would add that I took some comfort in the fact that teachers and the parents of friends would wax lyrical about how lovely he was. This told me a) it wasn’t something medical and b) he was just stretching his boundaries with us at home because he felt safe and loved (or something - I often wanted to throttle the little sod I’ll be honest)

Londonmummy66 · 19/05/2021 23:10

I had this with DD at 5. Her very wise and experienced Reception teacher told me that at that age they can either behave in the home or out of it. Which did I prefer - aggravation at home or embarrassment out of it? It passes and by the time they are 7-8 they are usually pretty good company (for 2 years until they are preteens and again think they know best _ DM says that passes at about 30).....

Viviennemary · 19/05/2021 23:15

I dont think this shared care is a good idea. How can children have stability when constantly flipping between homes every few days. It must be really difficult for you.