To think this is really cruel?

[RosieGuacamosie]

My friend got a lockdown puppy last summer and is now having to go back to work in the office and is planning to leave her dog in a crate whilst she’s at work. I offered her the details of my dog Walker but at £15/day apparently that’s too expensive. I understand £75 a week is a lot of money but surely that should have been thought of at the time she got the dog?

I think it’s bad enough leaving a dog in the kitchen for 8 hours on it’s own, but to leave it in a crate seems extra cruel.

Am I being precious and the dog will actually sleep most of the time which is what everyone else seems to be saying? Friend pointed out it’s no different to leaving the dog downstairs whilst she sleeps for 8 hours.

[MizMoonshine]

My parents used to leave our Doberman out the back all day when we were at school/work (it's a big garden- he always had food and water enough for the day available) when it was warm or he had full run of the house when the weather wasn't great.
Never came home to a house full of piss and shit or a distressed dog. He was the happiest Doby I've ever met and a proper family dog. But for about 8 hours a day, five days a week he was on his own either outside or in the house.
It's not necessarily cruel to leave an animal alone for this length of time. But it's definitely cruel to leave them in a crate. They need to be able to stretch their legs, especially energetic breeds.

[OhTheIronyOfItAll]

@RosieGuacamosie

She seems to think the crate is it’s “safe space” and therefore it’s more likely to settle down and sleep and not whine all day. I suspect there’s an element of not wanting her house chewed too.

I would seriously fall out with someone who thought this was acceptable.

themuttyprofessor.co.uk/2017/07/20/crate-debate-crate-not-crate/
“ Dogs are polyphasic sleepers. This means they sleep in short periods, like to get up and move around as well as changing positions.
Changing surfaces that they sleep on also helps them regulate their temperature.
Therefor, crating dogs goes against their natural way of sleeping and removes all option of them fulfilling this instinctive behaviour.
It’s worth noting that to enter deep REM sleep dogs need to have the ability to stretch their legs out, as full muscle relaxation is part of the process of slow wave sleep (the stage before REM sleep). Should your dog not enter REM sleep their brain may not be getting all the repair and recharging that it needs to function efficiently. It’s during REM sleep that the brain receives energy and also cortisol (stress hormone) levels lower. We all know how cortisol affects our mood and brain, so it’s vital we all get our REM sleep – dogs included!
So, here’s my bold claim: ‘Crating (when misued) can even INHIBIT training!’ If a dog can’t concentrate due to lack of REM sleep, then how are they meant to efficiently learn new behaviours we want to teach them?
I sometimes say to people who are pro-crates: ‘ How would you like being locked in your bedroom all night and/or for 8 hours a day? How do you think you’d sleep? ‘
Or, considering some of the sizes of crates, how about being confined to your bed for a duration of time? And being escorted to the loo when someone finally says you’re allowed to go, before being escorted back to bed?”

wetnoseescapades.com/reasons-not-crate-dog/

[HoppingPavlova]

I agree with the poster above. Ask her if she thinks it’s appropriate to leave a baby in a cot for 8+ hours per day in addition to sleeping in it if a night. This is no different.

[Creamcrackersandricecakes]

This is disgusting, but previous posters are absolutely correct when they say the RSPCA will do precisely nothing - they are totally useless unless they're being followed around by a camera crew.
My friend had a neighbour who got a terrier puppy 'for the kids'. His method of 'training' consisted of screaming commands in the dog's face until it obeyed him out of fear, (he insisted that this was 'proof' his training method worked). The dog was locked in a crate from 7.00am, when they all left the house for work / school, until 6.30pm when they all returned, (kids were in childcare). This poor little dog cried, howled and barked it's heart out all day long. Several sets of neighbours, including my friend, called the RSPCA. Repeatedly. They did nothing until they'd been called dozens of times. They then paid a visit, established that the dog had a bowl of water and some food in the crate, told the owner that it wasn't 'ideal' that the dog was crated for so long and left. They told my friend that if the noise bothered her, she should get on to Environmental Health.
They still have the dog, and my friend reports that he's the saddest, most nervous looking creature you can imagine. They also bought another dog during lockdown, who is also being subjected to his 'training'
The sooner we bring back the dog licence, and make educating new dog owners compulsory, the better. Can't see it happening any time soon though. OP, your friend's dog, being a mix of two high energy, working breeds, is going to lose it's fucking mind, literally. Poor thing

[MerryMarigold]

The dog will be very easy to rehome. There are charities specific to 'doodle' varieties and they have waiting lsts. She has to understand what she is doing is really not fair on the dog first, though. It's not about 'less than ideal', it really is cruel.

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

@MizMoonshine

My parents used to leave our Doberman out the back all day when we were at school/work (it's a big garden- he always had food and water enough for the day available) when it was warm or he had full run of the house when the weather wasn't great.
Never came home to a house full of piss and shit or a distressed dog. He was the happiest Doby I've ever met and a proper family dog. But for about 8 hours a day, five days a week he was on his own either outside or in the house.
It's not necessarily cruel to leave an animal alone for this length of time. But it's definitely cruel to leave them in a crate. They need to be able to stretch their legs, especially energetic breeds.

Similar here.
Our dogs were generally outdoor dogs (not in the uk, it's normal for dogs to live outside there). They had shelter, dog houses, food, water, shedload of cuddles and attention when we weren't at work or school. Happy dogs. Getting their energy out freely so not destractive or aggressive.
In here we would be probably reported for cruelty because the dogs lived outside, i have seen people say it's cruel, but cranes are fiiiine🤷🏻
They had heated dog houses for winter😂 Bloody lived better than we did😂

[JemimaPyjamas]

Oh god, this is awful! As is the post above this one by @Creamcrackersandricecakes - your friend is stupid and irresponsible! I provide doggy daycare and to get a dog but be unable meet basic needs is inexcusable.

[DenisetheMenace]

Start by showing her this thread, too.

[Frenchdressing]

Our rescue dog has a crate. She sleeps in it but door is always open. Only time we close the door is when she’s being a nuisance at meal times. I lock her in with a Kong.

Your friend is asking for trouble. That dog will need a lot of exercise to compensate for being locked in a small space all day. If dog doesn’t get it I expect behavioural issues emerge. Dog will be bored and frustrated.

[Bomchiccawick]

I’d remind your friend that dogs are pack animals and locking it in a tiny cage for 16 hours a day in solitary confinement is cruel. Unfortunately RSPCA will do feck all, they never help us when our neighbour is being neglectful.

[Creamcrackersandricecakes]

I can't believe that 1% of the people who have voted think that this is ok - what the fuck is wrong with you? Would you like to be locked in a cage for the vast majority of the day?

[flippertygibbit]

Crates are in themselves completely unnecessary and I would consider cruel. Train your dog properly and you won't have to worry about them damaging things when you go out. I have two dogs and every day they have a good run in the morning and again at night. i'm home every lunchtime where they have a pee, a biscuit and then go back to their beds and many people would consider that cruel for them to be left 4 days like that, but to lock them in a cage is barbaric.

[Flowerlane]

Majority of cockapoos I know have a lot of energy to release and need firm training. That isn’t going to happen being in a crate a majority of the time.

Your friend will have problems if that is what she is planning to do and unless she lives in the middle of no where then neighbours will complain as the dog will be barking from boredom and loneliness constantly.

[WomenAreBornNotWorn]

I don't understand crates either. But then we also keep hens in cages all their lives,and they are RSPCA approved,so it must be ok. 🤷‍♀️

[Frenchdressing]

I note the dog is a Cockapoo. I bet it cost a lot. She was prepared to pay for the dog but not the dog Walker fees. What a horrible person.

[marmitepasta]

People are so selfish.

I'd love a dog but don't get one as I know I'm not home enough.

[BatleyTownswomensGuild]

She's treating her dog like a battery chicken

This. Crates definitely have their place, but they should not be used as Doggy prison.

YANBU, your friend is being a totally irresponsible owner. Poor doggy. 😢

[3WildOnes]

So cruel. She needs to rehome the dog if she doesn’t have the time or money to care for it properly. Cockapoos are not dogs that cope well being left alone all day, especially not in a small cage.

[TheWeeDonkeyFella]

Poor little bugger. I think we will hear many horror stories this year about cruelty to pets acquired during lockdown.

Can you show your 'friend' this thread OP?

[SkedaddIe]

The pet industry is one of the worst. And is not far off industrial animal farming

The world would be a much much better place if people stopped breeding new pets and improved their social skills instead.

[Velvian]

She needs to pay for the dog walker or rehome the dog. £75 per week is not a lot of money to know that your dog is being looked after.

[cupsofcoffee]

In my experience as a dog walker, whatever her plans are won't last and one or more of the following will happen:

• the puppy will howl, whine and cry all day
  
• the puppy will mess it's crate and potentially eat it/roll in it.
  
• the puppy will be so distressed it makes itself sick
  
• the puppy will be so distressed it tries to claw it's way out of the crate and either succeeds (and destroys the house) or injures itself trying.
  

Then, the owner will try leaving the puppy out of the crate in a safe space, where it will still cry, bark, whine and have accidents, but it will also become destructive and eat their house.

Every single owner I've had on my books who planned to go back to work full-time and leave their puppy alone all day ended up having to use daycare.

Getting a puppy is a big commitment and if you need to work then you need to make arrangements to have them looked after. That could be daycare, it could be family stepping in, it could be arranging your work patterns so the puppy isn't left for long, it could be a dog walker - it could be a combination of all the above.

But it likely won't be cheap and will be a big lifestyle adjustment.

[overnightangel]

Your friend is a cunt

[CatChant]

It's cruel. Your friend is either extremely stupid to the extent she doesn't realise she's acquired a living animal rather than a toy, or a horrible person.

She could afford an expensive 'designer' puppy but, she claims, not the fees for a dog walker. Sounds far-fetched to me.

Poor, poor puppy.

[KidneyBeans]

@RosieGuacamosie

She seems to think the crate is it’s “safe space” and therefore it’s more likely to settle down and sleep and not whine all day. I suspect there’s an element of not wanting her house chewed too.

It's only a safe space if the dog chooses to be there - if it's locked in a cage then it's simply just locked in a cage